To Believe or Not to Believe - Is that the question?

Individual humans are conscious, no global human consciousness is shown to exist.

Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.
 
Agnosticism: uses the principle one cannot prove gods don't exist.
Atheism: uses the principle the evidence best explains gods as human generated fiction.

Both are valid positions. I happen to buy into the second one, but I get it when people chant the first one.

:cool:
 
Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.

I know you hate to hear it, but that last sentence is quite a supposition. It is not a matter of fact as the word "fact" is generally understood. It is faith. A steaming load of faith.
 
Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.
It is pure belief.
 
So instead of an argument, you're prepared to Godwin the thread (reductio ad Hitlerum) to imply an example usage involving prisons somehow reflects my opinion on Nazi death camps...

I think that speaks for itself.


Yup... this is yet one more illogical fallacy he can add under his belt.

Here is the list so far
  1. Special pleading
  2. Lack of historical knowledge
  3. Wishful thinking
  4. False attribution
  5. Ad hominem
  6. Straw man
  7. Not a true Scotsman
  8. Poisoning the well
  9. Red herring
  10. Slippery slope
  11. Appeal to motive
  12. Reductio ad Hitlerum
 
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Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.
All of that is belief. New age delusion from top to bottom. How you are that unaware is boggling.

Say Hi to Amy. Or whoever it is you are channelling this week.
 
Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.

I it were, it could be supported with evidence. Please feel free to do so.
 
Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global. The human species is not one individual. But every individual.

The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere. You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death. Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.

The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment.

But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses. The main event is the whole process. Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.

None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.


I would be happy to abandon the meta-discussion about what should and should not be labeled a belief, and discuss these beliefs facts hypotheses, but perhaps a new thread would be a better venue.
 
So instead of an argument, you're prepared to Godwin the thread (reductio ad Hitlerum) to imply an example usage involving prisons somehow reflects my opinion on Nazi death camps...

I think that speaks for itself.

It was you who said:

"I believe that many innocent people rot (have rotted) in jail or have died because of this. I know there's no way to prove that."

So you complain that I use an example evident in history and known by many to show you that it is no as you say.
 
I it were, it could be supported with evidence. Please feel free to do so.

As I have said, you are within the evidence.

Fact: Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global.
Fact: The human species is not one individual. But every individual.
Fact: The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere.
Fact: You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death.
Fact: Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.
Fact:The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment. But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses.
Fact: The main event is the whole process.
Fact: Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.
Fact: None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.

I it were, it could be supported with evidence. Please feel free to do so.

There is no need to support these facts with evidence. The evidence is in the fact.

Why do you think these facts are fiction?
 
I would be happy to abandon the meta-discussion about what should and should not be labeled a belief, and discuss these beliefs facts hypotheses, but perhaps a new thread would be a better venue.

What is there to discuss?

They are facts.

This process has been going on for as long as consciousness has existed. Human consciousness has assisted this evolution of consciousness considerably.

This is an example of hypothesis:


Consciousness is an accident of nature that happened and inventing god(s) is part of that natural evolution of consciousness - human consciousness specifically.

We do not know with certainty that consciousness does not survive the death of the brain. Some believe this is the case since it obviously appears to be that way, but no one can be certain (which is why belief is so attractive, be that belief for or against.)

Putting that to one side for now, what is human consciousness faced with in relation to the universe? We can say at least that if it survives the carelessness of the present, it has the potential to move out into the galaxy and what then?

All it can do is create things from the material at hand.

However, we assume that biologically we can survive the rigors of space and fly free from this nest of a planet we originate from.

We may yet discover that such thinking is simply wishful thinking. It might well prove to be the case that we are stuck here and that is that.

But this will not stop us from at least creating machinery which will give human consciousness the best chance of surviving along with the universe, even for as long as the universe might exist.

We will place the seed of our biological form (and other biological forms) into the safe keeping of ships designed for the purpose. Nursery ships which will search the Galaxy for potential planets in which to cultivate said seeds and assist the continuation of human consciousness in that way.

To what end?

There is no rational to human consciousness (or consciousness in general) existing in what is really a god almighty explosion of matter and gas etc. Physical stuff, from which even our bodies are made up of.

Yet regardless, here we exist.

A parent-less child making things up as we go.

To what end? We make machines and machines are able to replicate and utilize the stuff of the universe quickly and efficiently and as they brake down, can be recycled.

To what end?

To perhaps one day transform the galaxies into vast machines? What else can be done with the universe when consciousness is involved in the process?

Now, how do we know we ourselves are not planted by machines which were created and sent out by humans from some other planet in a more ancient part of the galaxy? How do we know that the machines were not these 'god(s)' we speak of in our myths and legends?

Machines do not suffer.

Machines do not understand suffering.

What is our purpose? To make machines. We have the intelligence, and the ability. Our forms are 'designed' for this purpose.

Is that a purpose? Yes it is. It seems the only logical purpose available in relation to our position in this universe.

Eventually biological life (and the consciousness which comes from this) may no longer be required, or able to be sustained. Either machines will become so advanced that they become self conscious self aware consciousness or human consciousness will be discovered to be something which in itself quite naturally continues and can never not exist, and ways may be found which human consciousness can be placed into machines designed for the purpose.

Who really knows?

Either way the end result is that the galaxies will be transformed into machines. Mindbogglingly vast machines which in themselves could be classed as 'god(s)' especially if they are self aware.

Having said as much, how do we even know that we are not already in one such machine which is designed to give us a simulation of being in a galaxy in a universe full of galaxies more numerous than can ever be counted?

How do we know that the idea of an omnipresent god is not the mind of that machine?

The consciousness of it?

How do we know that it couldn't simulate anything our human imaginations can throw at it and even if it so wished, communicate with each of us individually?

We don't know.

But the nature of our situation determines that we will always have to be throwing out new theories and ideas - even about god(s) and in relation to pure materialism and science and the assumption that this - the physical universe - is the only reality that there is, even if as individuals we die and that is the end of the individual that we are, what I have offered in this post is still quiet relevant.

Science and engineering are proving it to be the case. Sure it is still in its infancy, but the predictions are relatively narrow as to what consciousness can achieve in this universe.

We can speculate on certain possibilities within the constraints of physics, but it is obvious that we are very limited.
 
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As I have said, you are within the evidence.

Fact: Individual consciousness altogether attributes to global.
Fact: The human species is not one individual. But every individual.
Fact: The evidence for earth consciousness is accessible to you. It is everywhere.
Fact: You just don't appreciate fully what is going on in relation to birth and death.
Fact: Your individual life time can seem long and is linear and subjective so it appears to be the main event.
Fact:The flow of consciousness is not static or divided. It is a continuous stream literally snowballing and propelled always in the state of now. The moment. But the main event is not your individual life, or anyone elses.
Fact: The main event is the whole process.
Fact: Life and death flow through the situation referred to as reality and this flow carries with it data necessary for human consciousness (earth consciousness with human consciousness at the helm) to continue evolving and understanding itself.
Fact: None of the above is based on belief. It is a matter of fact.



There is no need to support these facts with evidence. The evidence is in the fact.

Why do you think these facts are fiction?

Slowvehicle didn't say that, he asked you to support your facts with evidence.
Perhaps we do not appreciate the goings on during birth and death enough?

:rolleyes:
 
What is there to discuss?

They are facts.

This process has been going on for as long as consciousness has existed. Human consciousness has assisted this evolution of consciousness considerably.

Nothing if you provide no evidence. Without that it's just you advertising your belief.
 

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