Titanic tourist sub missing

Not that I suppose it makes any difference at this point, but yesterday Vanity Fair published an article about OceanGate, Titan, and Stockton Rush that provides probably the best mid-level dive into the the submersible and its bad development.

The article discusses David Lochridge - the man who was fired and sued by Rush for giving a negative safety report on the Titan after its construction. It gives an interesting anecdote I hadn't heard before, about an earlier dive by OceanGate's Cyclops submersible to the wreck of the Andrea Doria, a relatively shallow but particularly treacherous dive even for highly experienced divers, with a high entanglement risk due to the state of the wreck and its immediate environs and a constant current.

As chief pilot and the person responsible for operational safety, Lochridge had created a dive plan that included protocols for how to approach the wreck. Any entanglement hazard demands caution and vigilance: touching down at least 50 meters away and surveying the site before coming any closer. Rush disregarded these safety instructions. He landed too close, got tangled in the current, managed to wedge the sub beneath the Andrea Doria’s crumbling bow, and descended into a full-blown panic. Lochridge tried to take the helm, but Rush had refused to let him, melting down for over an hour until finally one of the clients shrieked, “Give him the ******* controller!” At which point Rush hurled the controller, a video-game joystick, at Lochridge’s head. Lochridge freed the sub in 15 minutes.

The expedition had been planned to include 10 dives, but instead it ended abruptly, with OceanGate citing “adverse weather conditions.” After returning to shore in Boston, Rush held a press conference. “We were able to view the Andrea Doria area for nearly four hours, which is more than 10 times longer than scuba divers can,” he announced. The dive, OceanGate’s website noted, had “focused on the bow of the vessel.”
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The whole piece is worth reading, though - it gives some good insight into the rest of the deep-ocean exploration community's attitude toward OceanGate prior to the fatal accident.
 
Checkmite said:
Not that I suppose it makes any difference at this point, but yesterday Vanity Fair published an article about OceanGate, Titan, and Stockton Rush that provides probably the best mid-level dive into the the submersible and its bad development.

The article discusses David Lochridge - the man who was fired and sued by Rush for giving a negative safety report on the Titan after its construction. It gives an interesting anecdote I hadn't heard before, about an earlier dive by OceanGate's Cyclops submersible to the wreck of the Andrea Doria, a relatively shallow but particularly treacherous dive even for highly experienced divers, with a high entanglement risk due to the state of the wreck and its immediate environs and a constant current.

The whole piece is worth reading, though - it gives some good insight into the rest of the deep-ocean exploration community's attitude toward OceanGate prior to the fatal accident.
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This came up in my Google Discovery feed a couple of hours ago. I was going to post it, but you just ninja'd me. :D

The article also gives some insight into Rush's "my way or the highway" attitude. That is exactly the wrong type of personality trait to have when you are leader of a team dealing in high-risk technology ventures.
 
Checkmite said:
Not that I suppose it makes any difference at this point, but yesterday Vanity Fair published an article about OceanGate, Titan, and Stockton Rush that provides probably the best mid-level dive into the the submersible and its bad development.

The article discusses David Lochridge - the man who was fired and sued by Rush for giving a negative safety report on the Titan after its construction. It gives an interesting anecdote I hadn't heard before, about an earlier dive by OceanGate's Cyclops submersible to the wreck of the Andrea Doria, a relatively shallow but particularly treacherous dive even for highly experienced divers, with a high entanglement risk due to the state of the wreck and its immediate environs and a constant current.



The whole piece is worth reading, though - it gives some good insight into the rest of the deep-ocean exploration community's attitude toward OceanGate prior to the fatal accident.
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Oh good, I'm a bit wary of deep dives at the moment.
 
It's now about 4 months since the first post in the thread.

I wonder how long the investigation(s) will take?

Presumably some sort of report will be published. I guess now that they've recovered all the pieces that were recoverable, they should be able to wrap up the investigation in a few more weeks, hopefully? Will the *actual* transcript of communications between the submersible and the surface ship be made public? I'm curious how close the "fake" one was to reality.
 
Puppycow said:
It's now about 4 months since the first post in the thread.

I wonder how long the investigation(s) will take?

Presumably some sort of report will be published. I guess now that they've recovered all the pieces that were recoverable, they should be able to wrap up the investigation in a few more weeks, hopefully? Will the *actual* transcript of communications between the submersible and the surface ship be made public? I'm curious how close the "fake" one was to reality.
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Has the transcript that was released been shown to be fake? I tend to think it is, but I haven't seen any official denial of it being real.

Edit: and Snopes is saying false, but not based on any official utterances.
 
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jeremyp said:
Has the transcript that was released been shown to be fake? I tend to think it is, but I haven't seen any official denial of it being real.

Edit: and Snopes is saying false, but not based on any official utterances.
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I too would be surprised if the transcript turned out to be genuine. But I think I remember some other information suggesting that the Titan submersible was descended faster than the official descent rate on earlier dives, and given Stockton Rush's personality that seems entirely consistent with his level of impatience and willingness to take chances. Whether that had anything to do with the implosion may never be known.

Come to think of it, it seems likely Rush drove like a complete *******. He seems like the sort of guy who would speed and weave through traffic.
 
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Foster Zygote said:
I too would be surprised if the transcript turned out to be genuine. But I think I remember some other information suggesting that the Titan submersible was descended faster than the official descent rate on earlier dives, and given Stockton Rush's personality that seems entirely consistent with his level of impatience and willingness to take chances. Whether that had anything to do with the implosion may never be known.

Come to think of it, it seems likely Rush drove like a complete *******. He seems like the sort of guy who would speed and weave through traffic.
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If it is a fake (and it probably is) then its a very good one. Whoever faked it had considerable knowledge of how the Teledyne Benthos acoustic modem is used, and what the content of communications would look like when using it.

If the actual transcript is ever released (doubtful) I would have a small wager that it would look a lot like this fake that was allegedly "leaked", both in its content and the sequence of events it depicts.
 
smartcooky said:
If it is a fake (and it probably is) then its a very good one. Whoever faked it had considerable knowledge of how the Teledyne Benthos acoustic modem is used, and what the content of communications would look like when using it.

If the actual transcript is ever released (doubtful) I would have a small wager that it would look a lot like this fake that was allegedly "leaked", both in its content and the sequence of events it depicts.
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I wouldn't be so sure. It might be included in the final accident report.

I think it's entirely possible that the real sequence of events was somewhat similar to the transcript. That's one reason why it seems so plausible - it's what we expect.
 
jeremyp said:
Having read the Vanity Fair article, the only thing that really puzzles me is why PH Nargeolet got involved.
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The article and other sources make it seem like since his wife died a couple of years previously, Nargeolet had developed a "don't care if I live or die" attitude, together with an indifference (maybe even a preference) for dying in an oceanographic accident.

One might even further speculate that Nargeolet, who was of course highly experienced in deep-sea exploration and the dangers involved, might actually have had reservations about the safety of this submersible. He'd certainly have known full well that were the submersible to have imploded, he'd suffer a mercifully quick and painless death. It might also be that having organised and attended his wife's funeral, he might have developed a desire not to want a funeral for himself. This whole para is purely speculation on my part; but I happen to know someone (a friend of my parents and ex-colleague of my father's) who lost his wife in a nasty accident three years ago, and who now repeatedly expresses his wish to die in a manner that will not involve a funeral.....
 
Marcus said:
There was something about "presumed remains" on the news, being dna tested to determine if they were in fact human remains. Kinda gives you a hint as to their condition.
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Catastrophic implosions at these sorts of pressures tear human bodies apart with the same energy as a sizeable explosion. It's likely that the bodies would have literally been shredded instantly into pretty small pieces.

I'd have thought that, if that were the case, bacteria and sea creatures would have got rid of most of the soft tissue within a month or two. Bones (and probably also ligaments/tendons) would tend to last longer, but they'd have been broken into small pieces in the implosion and would have been flung over a fairly wide distance onto the sea bed.

It's possible that they might have found bits of clothing with residual scraps of tissue still attached, or boots with portions of the foot still in situ. But I suspect they're only ever going to find trace amounts of each passenger's remains.
 
I have to wonder what mental gymnastics the relatives/loved ones go through waiting for confirmation of " human remains "..

Hopefully they have been counseled by now that there is no possibility of little more than DNA being identified, with no surprises as to the results of this catastrophe..
 
LondonJohn said:
Catastrophic implosions at these sorts of pressures tear human bodies apart with the same energy as a sizeable explosion. It's likely that the bodies would have literally been shredded instantly into pretty small pieces.

I'd have thought that, if that were the case, bacteria and sea creatures would have got rid of most of the soft tissue within a month or two. Bones (and probably also ligaments/tendons) would tend to last longer, but they'd have been broken into small pieces in the implosion and would have been flung over a fairly wide distance onto the sea bed.

It's possible that they might have found bits of clothing with residual scraps of tissue still attached, or boots with portions of the foot still in situ. But I suspect they're only ever going to find trace amounts of each passenger's remains.
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I have heard the term "pink mist" with reference to humans crushed by deep water pressures. What happens if there is the slightest crack at those pressure, is that the water rushes in and fills the available space instantaneously.

A short story to give you some idea how this works. When I was still in the RNZAF a co-worker of mine working with me on a hydraulic actuator in a C-130 saw a small red drop of hydraulic fluid sitting on an aluminium pipe carrying hydraulic fluid under 3,000 psi pressure, Before I could stop him, he wiped the tip of his index finger across the droplet - and his fingertip was sliced off clean, right behind the fingernail. There had been a microscopic hole in the aluminium pipe, and an extremely fine jet of hydraulic flight was spurting out.
 
LondonJohn said:
Catastrophic implosions at these sorts of pressures tear human bodies apart with the same energy as a sizeable explosion. It's likely that the bodies would have literally been shredded instantly into pretty small pieces.

I'd have thought that, if that were the case, bacteria and sea creatures would have got rid of most of the soft tissue within a month or two. Bones (and probably also ligaments/tendons) would tend to last longer, but they'd have been broken into small pieces in the implosion and would have been flung over a fairly wide distance onto the sea bed.

It's possible that they might have found bits of clothing with residual scraps of tissue still attached, or boots with portions of the foot still in situ. But I suspect they're only ever going to find trace amounts of each passenger's remains.
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Possibly teeth.
 
LondonJohn said:
It's possible that they might have found bits of clothing with residual scraps of tissue still attached, or boots with portions of the foot still in situ. But I suspect they're only ever going to find trace amounts of each passenger's remains.
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That's all it takes for a DNA test.
 
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