There is no paranormal things in homeopathic potencies

[Mojo]

I've suggested a number of ways you might end up with more new molecules than there are atoms in the MT, likely or unlikely as they may be. I'm waiting for clarification on whether or not any of these occur.

Never mind "clarification"! What about some evidence, Sheikh?

 

[petre]

Never mind "clarification"! What about some evidence, Sheikh?

Now, now, don't go jumping the gun. It's polite to wait for people to clearly make their unlikely claim before declaring it BS and requesting evidence. I just plan to continue requesting clarification until:

1. How one could end up with non-solvent molecules at 30C becomes clear.
2. He states something as fact which violates known laws of science
3. He stops offering clarification

If 1 happens, then I can accept it is possible, and we could move on to discussing whether or not those molecules could have any effect.

If 2 happens, perhaps he will learn something useful and revise his thinking in some way. Maybe he could even take his new learning to his peers and they could all become more educated, yay!

If 3 happens...well, 3 always seems to happen in the end *sigh*

 

[Mojo]

when you add more water and more alcohol then those chemicals which have been splitted into their parts or have been changed into new compounds react with each other and also with new solvent which you are adding time to time and gain more quantity and in this way the quantity never comes down.

The problem you have here is that, as I have already mentioned, you are adding much more solvent than you can possibly have of the "remedy" substances (in the case of a "c" preparation, 100 times as much), so that, even if the solute reacts with the solvent, the end result of the reaction will still be in solution in the solvent, and therefore must be stable with respect to that solvent. So even if your solute reacts with the solvent at the first dilution, the result of that reaction will be something that will not react further with the solvent. There can be no further reaction after the first dilution.

Of course, if your mother tincture is made up using the same solvent as that used for the dilutions (as you have indicated here, where you describe preparing the MT using water and alcohol) you will not have any reaction even at the first dilution: any possible reaction will already have taken place when you prepared the mother tincture.

 

[H'ethetheth]

...except when you make a homeopathic medicine of fungus by diluting it with lukewarm gravy (mmmm gravy).

 

[Dr. A Sheikh]

The problem you have here is that, as I have already mentioned, you are adding much more solvent than you can possibly have of the "remedy" substances (in the case of a "c" preparation, 100 times as much), so that, even if the solute reacts with the solvent, the end result of the reaction will still be in solution in the solvent, and therefore must be stable with respect to that solvent. So even if your solute reacts with the solvent at the first dilution, the result of that reaction will be something that will not react further with the solvent. There can be no further reaction after the first dilution.

Of course, if your mother tincture is made up using the same solvent as that used for the dilutions (as you have indicated here, where you describe preparing the MT using water and alcohol) you will not have any reaction even at the first dilution: any possible reaction will already have taken place when you prepared the mother tincture.

Solute also react with each other too (this you are missing)

 

[Mojo]

Solute also react with each other too (this you are missing)

They will react with each other until the system reaches equilibrium, i.e. until there is no further reaction. This will most likely happen in the MT, or possibly in the first dilution if you manage to find a solvent in which they behave differently than they do in the solvent used for the MT.

 

[anor277]

Solute also react with each other too (this you are missing)

This is also quite fallacious. The solutes derived from plant tissues were in solution already, i.e. as part of the plant's biochemistry. The suggestion that they undergo reaction after (and not before) extraction is unreasonable.

Please would you turn off the blue colouring; it's hard on the eyes.

 

[steenkh]

Solute also react with each other too (this you are missing)

But what is the connection to the MT. The solute has plenty of time to react with itself in the bottle before it is added to the MT.

 

[petre]

1. How one could end up with non-solvent molecules at 30C becomes clear.
2. He states something as fact which violates known laws of science
3. He stops offering clarification

If 1 happens, then I can accept it is possible, and we could move on to discussing whether or not those molecules could have any effect.

If 2 happens, perhaps he will learn something useful and revise his thinking in some way. Maybe he could even take his new learning to his peers and they could all become more educated, yay!

If 3 happens...well, 3 always seems to happen in the end *sigh*

Perhaps #3 has come already, sad to have happened so soon.

 

[flume]

One way to get ethanol to change to acetic acid is to grow an acetobacter colony in it. What would it take for THAT to happen? I think oxygen is needed, and the alcohol level might have to be below a certain point. So - save money by using a weaker alcohol to water mixture, leave the lid off occasionally so that O₂ gets in and more EtOH evaporates off ....
Dr. A Sheikh, do you ever smell vinegar from your 200C dilutions? Do you ever see a strange floating translucent layer on the top?

(only partly joking)

 

[StoatBringer]

What I want to know is how is it possible to ensure that the homeopathic preparation only contains "memory" (or whatever) of the intended active ingredient? How do you prevent molecules of other substances from "polluting" the solution when it comes into contact with its container, or the air, or the equipment used to prepare it?

Surely even a single bacterium or speck of dust would contain all sorts of molecules. How does the preparation magically know which molecule is the important one and to somehow ignore all the others which might get into it?

 

[MRC_Hans]

What I want to know is how is it possible to ensure that the homeopathic preparation only contains "memory" (or whatever) of the intended active ingredient? How do you prevent molecules of other substances from "polluting" the solution when it comes into contact with its container, or the air, or the equipment used to prepare it?

Surely even a single bacterium or speck of dust would contain all sorts of molecules. How does the preparation magically know which molecule is the important one and to somehow ignore all the others which might get into it?

Actually, a logically feasible thesis for this was fielded by ... wait for it .... Kumar! I don't know if it was his own making or if he just copied it from somewhere, but it goes something like this:

In the first solution steps, the MT is dominating, so the sovent in these steps is thropughly "imprinted" with it. Now, in each step, as long as such contaminants are considerably below 1% (in a C series), the "imprinted" solvent from the previous step is dominant and this takes precedence over what contaminants are in the solvent. Also, the "imprint" is potentized, and thus stronger than the "crude" contaminants.

Makes a certain amount of sense, actually.

Hans

 

[Anders W. Bonde]

Originally posted by MRC Hans:
Makes a certain amount of sense, actually.

Hans, this remark of yours is going to be misrepresented by the homeopathetics - so please provide evidence for the existence of the suggested mechanism...

 

[Stitch]

Actually, a logically feasible thesis for this was fielded by ... wait for it .... Kumar! I don't know if it was his own making or if he just copied it from somewhere, but it goes something like this:

In the first solution steps, the MT is dominating, so the sovent in these steps is thropughly "imprinted" with it. Now, in each step, as long as such contaminants are considerably below 1% (in a C series), the "imprinted" solvent from the previous step is dominant and this takes precedence over what contaminants are in the solvent. Also, the "imprint" is potentized, and thus stronger than the "crude" contaminants.

Makes a certain amount of sense, actually.

Hans

Hmm - it sounds vaguely plausible IF you are prepared to accept a load of things such a "potentization" and "imprinting", personally I'd like some evidence.

 

[MRC_Hans]

It only makes sense in the way that it is logically consistent within the premises suggested by homeopahty (but since this is the only time I remember I have seen Kumar being logically contistent, that is something in itself ).

Hans

 

[Dr. MAS]

You will accept many things but you need some time to understand the practical applications of homeopathy.

 

[Mojo]

You will accept many things but you need some time to understand the practical applications of homeopathy.

It's already been done by these guys.

 

[Dr. MAS]

I am going to invite you and your all family members (aliases you have).

 

[sionep]

hans you never used homeopathy, you never seen how homeopathic potencies are prepared and you are commenting like a scholar, I think you are the professor of homeopathy.

Dr. Sheik, I posted a message to Dr. Mas and any homeopathy practitioner who would be keen to do some 'proving' using my homeopathy grass-juice that I have invented. I have not had any response from Dr. Mas, so I am asking you if you are interested in this juice. I basically cut some grass from my backyard and make juice with it. I have given the juice to eleven elderly people at a rest home, which they each took half a glass of juice and all of them reported to their residents nurse-in-charge that they feel young again after drinking this stuff. Would you be interested, to take a look at my grass-juice, perhaps you can distribute them to needy patients of yours free of charge. Of course , you can charge fees for your consultations but not the juice. May be you and me can win a nobel prize for this revolution invention in homeopathy. If you are interested in further discussion, then perhaps send me a private forum mail, so that I can send you information of how it is prepared (type of grass to cut).

 

[sionep]

The number of original MT atoms are not going to grow even though you add lots of solvent. Can you please explain how you can get more new molecules than there are atoms in the MT?

So you have a theory about how homeopathy works? (If it worked)

I think, that the atoms in Dr. Sheik's preparations in the second, third, fourth, and so on ... round of dilution's get pregnant and produce more atoms out of thin air. In that way, the solutions become paranormal.