There is no paranormal things in homeopathic potencies

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Let's keep this simple.

Are there any molecules of any of the chemicals left in that 30c preparation? Check one:

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

yes molecules of ethyle alcohol, molecules of water, molecules of compounds formed after reaction, molecule of o2 added during shaking.

 

[Z]

yes molecules of ethyle alcohol, molecules of water,

The solvent, I presume... so yes.

molecules of compounds formed after reaction,

Ummm... nope.

molecule of o2 added during shaking.

You forgot CO2, N, etc... i.e. air. Though it's quite likely that all gaseous particles after shaking will 'settle out' after a VERY short time.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Even if there were remaining molecules of compounds formed during the initial reaction, which there aren't, are you sure this is a good thing? Are those the compounds that do the good stuff? How would you know? Did you ever purify each compound and test it independently for safety and efficacy, assuming you did any testing at all? Did you then test to make sure there were no negative reactions between all the compounds? What do you do with all the intermediate waste products?

Let's start with a simple question: Name one of the compounds formed during the initial reaction.

~~ Paul

 

[Dr. A Sheikh]

hans you never used homeopathy, you never seen how homeopathic potencies are prepared and you are commenting like a scholar, I think you are the professor of homeopathy.

 

[RandFan]

hans you never used homeopathy, you never seen how homeopathic potencies are prepared and you are commenting like a scholar, I think you are the professor of homeopathy.

Fallacious reasoning. I don't need to leave cookies out for Santa to know that he doesn't exist.

 

[Bone_Vulture]

Fallacious reasoning. I don't need to leave cookies out for Santa to know that he doesn't exist.

Well if you did leave the damn cookies, you'd know that Santa exists. The only reason he doesn't visit you is because you lack faith.

 

[Aepervius]

I won the million rupee

In the following keep in mind I will soon go into mumbai, so I need to convert some cash to rupee at the airport or ... Get some rupee in advance.

Somebody correct me if i am wrong, my speciality was Quantum physic, not Chemie.

There is 55 mole of water per liter (if I recall correctly). If we assume a saturated solution this go into complex operation, but as I understand the mother tincture principle, this is rather a diluted solution.
If you have n compound named M1...Mn in a solvant S, Each of those compound having a concentration [M1]...[Mn]. EAch will roughly due to the assumption of diluted solution rather inferior to 55. But for the sake of the argument let us all assume that any solute concentration is 10 mole.liter-1 (which is wrong this would already be beyond saturation but I do not want to go into chemical activity and perfect gas equations).

Let us notice the {Mx,j} the number of molecules for solute Mx AFTER Dilution number j. {Mx,0} is the initial number of molecule, so {Mx,0}=[Mx]*6.02.10^23. So for the sake of the argument this would be {Mx,0}=6.02.10^24.
Now since we are working in dilution and concetration we can consider every compound independant.

After Dilution 1, FROM THE DEFINITION of dilution itself, no matter how much you succuss , if you really dilute you will have {Mx,j+1}=0.01*{Mx,j}.

So, {Mx,1}=0.01{Mx,0}=6.02.10^24*0,01=6.02.10^22
{Mx,2}=0.01{Mx,1}=0.01*0.01*{Mx,0}=6.02.10^20
{Mx,3}=0.01{Mx,2}=0.01*0.01*0.01*6.02.10^24=6.02.10^18
{Mx,n+1}=0.01{Mx,n}=(0,01)^n*6.02.10^24

Still following me Mr Scheick ?

So now we have a number of molecule x in solvent for n=20 (20C) equal to :
{Mx,20}==(0,01)^20*6.02.10^24=10^-40*6.02*10^24=6,02*10^-16.

10^-16 is an extremly small number of molecules. This is impossible. Molecule cannot be fractionned they are integer (?) entity. So After 12C you have nothing more in your dilution.

Even if you consider saturated solution, you won't be able to go much more than 55 moles of componant in your 55 moles of water (else you can't call that a solution anymore) and any those step for saturated solution only apply for the first 1C, or 2C dilution. Afterward you have diluted solution, see above.

I will now stand on a leg and I will assume you PROPERLY do your dilution and properly clean up your apparatus between dilution, unlike a certain team of bad scientist I won't citate
If you say that any physical activity of the solute is present in your solution after a dilution of 12C this can ONLY means that you have a PARANORMAL effect of a coumpound which is NOT PRESENT (normal effect as forseen by science : is no physical activity related to the solute since it does not exist anymore beyond 12C). Homeopathy just say that : at 30C there is still an effect (example : basophile still react). Thus homeopathy is paranormal.

Do I get my million rupee please ?

PS: I assume it has already been talked about before in the 90+ page those cumulated homeopathic thread but that would be nice to see mr sheick answer to the above.

 

[Grundar]

Nicely put Aepervius, but you first have to get some homeopats to admit that atoms exist and have a minimum weight .

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

I think Sheikh or at least one of the collective did agree that atoms exist. I don't think it ever got further than that. Of course, he may have changed his mind, he seems to do that quite often.

Rolfe.

 

[Mojo]

I think Sheikh or at least one of the collective did agree that atoms exist. I don't think it ever got further than that. Of course, he may have changed his mind, he seems to do that quite often.

He did. But he seems to need to be reminded.

 

[Mojo]

In fact, he did it here.

 

[Rolfe]

Go on then, ask him if he accepts that atoms have finite mass.

Rolfe.

 

[Zep]

hans you never used homeopathy, you never seen how homeopathic potencies are prepared and you are commenting like a scholar, I think you are the professor of homeopathy.

Well OK, Mr Smarty-pants! YOU tell us how they are made in real life. In full detail, please.

 

[Ladewig]

yes molecules of ethyle alcohol, molecules of water, molecules of compounds formed after reaction, molecule of o2 added during shaking.

One quick question, Dr. Sheikh. If there are molecules of compound in 30C, is it ever possible to dilute a solution to the point that there are no molecules of compound left?
40C ? 100C ? 1000C ? 10,000C ? Do all these dilutions still have compound molecules in them?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Is there some sort of atomic cloning thing going on?

~~ Paul

 

[PixyMisa]

No. It's just that the procedure is sufficiently sloppy that there are always contaminants. So 30C means we diluted it thirty times, but we have no idea by how much, or whether there is any of the original substance left, or whether something else might have crept in, and we don't care either.

Or so says the estimable Dr. Sheikh.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Are you sure there's no cloning of molecules. Maybe in China?

~~ Paul

 

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Go on then, ask him if he accepts that atoms have finite mass.

Rolfe.

this finitive mass can also react and form another mass and when you add more things then it can react and change to another mass.

 

[clarsct]

So...

In chemical reactions mass is created?

 

[AnotherSillyAlias]

this finitive mass can also react and form another mass and when you add more things then it can react and change to another mass.

And now we have something from nothing. Homeopathy sure is wonderful stuff!