The Vatican praises "The Simpsons"

paximperium said:
Who cares what the hell some monolithic backwards thinking organization thinks about pop-culture? Is this suppose to make them relevant again?
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They were relevant to CNN who had almost non stop coverage for days of Pope John Paul II's funeral, not to mention the 4 US presidents who flew to Rome for the funeral.
 
DOC said:
No, I'm saying the problem is far worse in schools than it ever was in the priesthood
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So? Let's pretend it is true, does that lessen the immorality of the churches coverup?
 
DOC said:
No, I'm saying the problem is far worse in schools than it ever was in the priesthood

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

But the problem is not shouted from the rooftops by the media with regard to the teachers whereas it was during the priest scandal. And as I stated that is why I believe it is still a problem in the schools and not in the priesthood anymore.
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Really? It's as bad?
Here is the actual report:
http://www.archny.org/media/archbishops-blog/Sexual_Misconduct_Report.pdf

Please point out EXACTLY where it says about rape and cover up by the school authority. Oh yeah, please point out the EXACT definition of Sexual Misconduct used by the studies authors.
 
DOC said:
They were relevant to CNN who had almost non stop coverage for days of Pope John Paul II's funeral, not to mention the 4 US presidents who flew to Rome for the funeral.
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Why no answer?
paximperium said:
This of course forgives the Church for their child abuse cover ups.
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joobz said:
Or will it somehow make us forget that they actively encourage policies and promote lies that increase the spread of AIDS in Africa?
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DOC said:
No, I'm saying the problem is far worse in schools than it ever was in the priesthood

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

But the problem is not shouted from the rooftops by the media with regard to the teachers whereas it was during the priest scandal. And as I stated that is why I believe it is still a problem in the schools and not in the priesthood anymore.
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There are a few problems with your Newsmax article. While more than one study is used for the school analysis, only the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops report is used for the Catholic Church. The main problem is that while the school reports all surveyed victims, the bishops' report surveyed the abusers, the abusers' peers, and the abusers' supervisors. It is easy to see that the reporting rate for the people engaging in felony criminal behavior is going to be less than the reporting rate for the victims of this criminal behavior. In fact, the bishops' report never provides an estimate for the percentage of all RCC children who were physically abused, therefore one cannot make comparisions about the rates of the two institutions.
 
paximperium said:
Really? It's as bad?
Here is the actual report:
http://www.archny.org/media/archbishops-blog/Sexual_Misconduct_Report.pdf

Please point out EXACTLY where it says about rape and cover up by the school authority. Oh yeah, please point out the EXACT definition of Sexual Misconduct used by the studies authors.
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I've spent the past hour reading these studies and you are correct to ask about the definition. The AAUW definition includes teachers telling inappropriate jokes to students. Other studies use more limiting definitions. Still, the estimates for students subject sexual misconduct from teachers (or school employees) range from 4 to 50 percent! I cannot figure out out to quote PDF charts, so I will provide a link table 5 under chapter 3.2 compares these rates and from that report, I think the percentage of U.S. schoolchildren who experience physical sexual abuse is around 7 percent (for 2000 - the numbers are significantly higher for the 1970s and early 1980s). Unfortunately I cannot compare that the RCC's rate, because I cannot find a published rate for them.
 
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DOC said:
Bottom line is the problem of sexual abuse in the public schools is worse than it ever was in the Church.

Now back to this topic before derailed by Pax.
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I'm not sure that you can say that definitively. And even if it were true, what's your point? Leave the poor priests alone, because they're not the only ones?

Ladewig said:
I've spent the past hour reading these studies and you are correct to ask about the definition. The AAUW definition includes teachers telling inappropriate jokes to students. Other studies use more limiting definitions. Still, the estimates for students subject sexual misconduct from teachers (or school employees) range from 4 to 50 percent! I cannot figure out out to quote PDF charts, so I will provide a link table 5 under chapter 3.2 compares these rates and from that report, I think the percentage of U.S. schoolchildren who experience physical sexual abuse is around 7 percent (for 2000 - the numbers are significantly higher for the 1970s and early 1980s). Unfortunately I cannot compare that the RCC's rate, because I cannot find a published rate for them.
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That's the problem. When such abuse happens outside of the church, it is dealt with and not swept under the carpet. In the church? Not so much.
 
Ladewig said:
I've spent the past hour reading these studies and you are correct to ask about the definition. The AAUW definition includes teachers telling inappropriate jokes to students. Other studies use more limiting definitions. Still, the estimates for students subject sexual misconduct from teachers (or school employees) range from 4 to 50 percent! I cannot figure out out to quote PDF charts, so I will provide a link table 5 under chapter 3.2 compares these rates and from that report, I think the percentage of U.S. schoolchildren who experience physical sexual abuse is around 7 percent (for 2000 - the numbers are significantly higher for the 1970s and early 1980s). Unfortunately I cannot compare that the RCC's rate, because I cannot find a published rate for them.
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The data is not in this report but it is a good read.

The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Priests and Deacons, by Karen Terry et al., prepared by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice (Washington DC: USCCB, 2004)
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/2004_02_27_JohnJay/index.html
 
Skeptic Guy said:
That's the problem. When such abuse happens outside of the church, it is dealt with and not swept under the carpet. In the church? Not so much.
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The bishops report concluded that only 5% of the cases they were able to document were reported to the police. Figures such as that make it all the harder to determine how prevalent the problem is.
 
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DOC said:
They were relevant to CNN who had almost non stop coverage for days of Pope John Paul II's funeral, not to mention the 4 US presidents who flew to Rome for the funeral.
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Um, you do know that, besides being a religious leader, the Pope is also a head of state, right?
 
joobz said:
So? Let's pretend it is true, does that lessen the immorality of the churches coverup?
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Of course not, it is wrong to cover it up just like it is wrong for school administrators to cover up the serious teachers abuse problem, a problem that still exists.

The Catholic Church gets priests from the general population just like schools get teachers from the general population. Human beings have weaknesses.
 
DOC said:
Of course not, it is wrong to cover it up just like it is wrong for school administrators to cover up the serious teachers abuse problem, a problem that still exists.
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Do you have any evidence at all that school administrators covered up the problem in any way? Any evidence at all - please present it now.

The Catholic Church gets priests from the general population just like schools get teachers from the general population.
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Logic fail. Why do you ignore what has been so comprehensively laid out in dozens of posts? It's not about where the people come from, it is about the systematic and repeated cover ups that allowed known child molesters to be near other children. The RCC did that (heck, they even admit that they did that). The U.S. public school system did not do that.

ETA: The other key difference between the two institutions is that the RCC is founded on the idea of forgiveness and the U.S. public school system is not. If a schoolteacher molests a child he is fired. His name is entered into a database and he can never work as a schoolteacher again (in that state). If a RCC molests a child, he is not fired. He is told that he has sinned and that God will forgive his sin. The church forgives him and he keeps his job and is allowed to continue his work in that field.
 
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The Vatican says they like it?

Holy ****. That's it. It's over. It's jumped the shark. The Simpsons is clearly not funny anymore.
 
Sledge said:
Typical of the Catholic church to accept something long after everyone else has moved on. Now, if someone told me the Vatican was praising Family Guy, I might be interested.
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moved on? not me. the Simpsons is still going strong and Family Guy... mwah.. I don't think I watched that more than 5 times in my life

Ona scale of 1 to 100 I would give the Simpsons a 85 and Family guy a 35.
 
DOC said:
The Catholic Church gets priests from the general population just like schools get teachers from the general population. Human beings have weaknesses.
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So deciding that hiding the problem instead of protecting children was simply human's fault?
How about the church's policy in Africa regarding AIDS? Is that moral as well?
 
Blackadder said:
moved on? not me. the Simpsons is still going strong and Family Guy... mwah.. I don't think I watched that more than 5 times in my life

Ona scale of 1 to 100 I would give the Simpsons a 85 and Family guy a 35.
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Interesting. I've always put them almost exactly the other way around.
 
Family Guy is retarded, but makes up for it by being edgy. The Simpsons is sterile, but makes up for it by being quite clever.
 
South Park loses by often not being funny. Ok, they acknowledge that they often sink into being preachy, but that doesn't excuse it.
 
Sledge said:
South Park loses by often not being funny. Ok, they acknowledge that they often sink into being preachy, but that doesn't excuse it.
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I have to agree. I don't watch Southpark much anymore. Bores me to tears too often.

Each to their own, maybe I'm missing something.

As for the Vatican and the Simpsons. The Vatican is just plain doofy. One minute they like the Simpsons, the next they're bitching about Harry Potter, the next they're freaking out over the Golden Compass, then they're saying condoms are making AIDS worse in Africa.

You could get more reliable information from the crazy old guy on the porch down the street who splits his time rather judiciously between telling kids to stay off his lawn and opining about modern affairs.

Vatican = ********... at least 95% of the time. Spoken as a former RC churchgoer.
 
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