The United States is Not A Democracy

[Eyeron]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the democracy for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with religion and Godliness for all."

 

[Kestrel]

I am so tired of this "America is a republic, not a democracy" meme. I first heard it about 25 years ago from the John Birchers, and it has not improved any with age.

I usually respond by pointing out that Thomas Jefferson used the term democracy to describe our system of government.

To Peter Hercules Wendover.
Monticello, March 13, 1815.

SIR

Your favor of January the 30th was received after long delay on the road, and I have to thank you for the volume of discourses which you have been so kind as to send me. I have gone over them with great satisfaction, and concur with the able preacher in his estimate of the character of the belligerents in our late war, and lawfulness of defensive war. I consider the war, with him, as "made on good advice" that is, for just causes, and its dispensation as providential, inasmuch as it has exercised our patriotism and submission to order, has planted and invigorated among us arts of urgent necessity, has manifested the strong and the weak parts of our republican institutions, and the excellence of a representative democracy compared with the misrule of kings, has rallied the opinions of mankind to the natural rights of expatriation, and of a common property in the ocean, and raised us to that grade in the scale of nations which the bravery and liberality of our citizen soldiers, by land and by sea, the wisdom of our institutions and their observance of justice, entitled us to in the eyes of the world.

(Emphasis Added)

 

[Darth Rotor]

I usually respond by pointing out that Thomas Jefferson used the term democracy to describe our system of government.

(Emphasis Added)

Nice tid bit. Thanks. It's a keeper.

 

[Thunder]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the democracy for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with religion and Godliness for all."

we are a Republic. but "Republic" is not a form of government. democracy is. Republic simply means we have no monarch.

 

[Darth Rotor]

we are a Republic. but "Republic" is not a form of government. democracy is. Republic simply means we have no monarch.

Oh, parky, please, don't do this.

Yes, a republic is a form of government.

You only had to look as far as wiki:
A republic is a form of government in which the head of state is not a monarch, and the people (or at least a part of its people)have an impact on its government. The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin phrase res publica which can be translated as "a public affair".

For example, there is an Islamic republic in Iran. It has voting. That it most resembles an oligarchy/theocracy/somethingelsearchy in practice does not mean that it is not a form of government. Here is a rough wiring diagram of the government's various structure, and how the electorate feed their votes into it. (In structure, if not in practice).

 

[Ryokan]

Yes, a republic is a form of government.

And to be specific, it's a type of democracy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

And to be specific, it's a type of democracy.

 

[Thunder]

Republic..does not mean rule by the people. Democracy does.

There are MANY republics in this world, where the people have little to no say in national affairs.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Republic..does not mean rule by the people. Democracy does. There are MANY republics in this world, where the people have little to no say in national affairs.

Ruled by the people: just what does that mean?

You are being schooled here, and you refuse to learn.

Please go back and reconsider your careless statement:

we are a Republic. but "Republic" is not a form of government. democracy is. Republic simply means we have no monarch.

That is wrong.

Republic..does not mean rule by the people. Democracy does.

You gonna stick to that story, or clue up?

There are MANY republics in this world, where the people have little to no say in national affairs

Agreed.

DR

 

[Kestrel]

Republic..does not mean rule by the people. Democracy does.

There are MANY republics in this world, where the people have little to no say in national affairs.

Either of the terms representative democracy or constitutional republic properly describes of our form of government. And as most of us learned in civics class, we are not a direct democracy where every citizen votes on every issue. That is simply impractical for anything larger than a small village.

Given that, it's strange how some folks are so vocal in claiming that the US is not a democracy. I have even heard claims that the very word democracy is part of a New World Order plot cooked up by nefarious politicians like FDR.

My take is that it's simply part of a propaganda gambit. "Proving" that something the listener has believed for years is wrong sets them up for the next lesson on how things really are. If it works, you can lead them right down the rabbit hole. There they can join the other true believers that know the real truth about things like the North American Union and the Trilateral Commission.

 

[psychictv]

If the U.S. is not a democracy, and democracy is a dirty word, then why do Republicans expend so much energy trying to rename the Democratic party to the "Democrat" party? They should be glad to cede the term to the left, right?

 

[geni]

the UK is a constitutional monarchy. the King or Queen is the ceremonial head of state, and shares power with the PM and Parliament.

We have a constitution?

 

[Ryokan]

We have a constitution?

Believe it or not, a written constitution is not required to have a constitutional monarchy. But if it makes you feel better we can also say that the UK has a parliamentary monarchy..

 

[psychictv]

Every nation has a constitution.

 

[Bearded One]

The word constitutional is important. No simple majority vote can overide the constitutional protections.

 

[Thunder]

Every nation has a constitution.

Israel doesn't. Britain doesn't.

 

[Cain]

"But we're a republic, not a democracy" is one of the more annoying -- and common -- and moronic -- non-arguments I encounter. It's often whipped out in a discussion involving the Electoral College (a bloody stupid institution) or the Senate (another bloody stupid institution).

Suppose we had one person, one vote for elections of president, or we abolished the Senate... would such institutional reforms mean the U.S. can no longer be regarded as a republic? The answer is "of course not."

 

[Cactus Wren]

USA is not a democracy, just like the Earth is not round.*

*For particularly narrow, uncommon, and impractical definitions of round and democracy.

PZ Myers provided, well ahead of this discussion, what may be an apropos quotation from Isaac Asimov:

The young specialist in English Lit, having quoted me, went on to lecture me severely on the fact that in every century people have thought they understood the universe at last, and in every century they were proved to be wrong. It follows that the one thing we can say about our modern "knowledge" is that it is wrong. The young man then quoted with approval what Socrates had said on learning that the Delphic oracle had proclaimed him the wisest man in Greece. "If I am the wisest man," said Socrates, "it is because I alone know that I know nothing." The implication was that I was very foolish because I was under the impression I knew a great deal.

My answer to him was, "John, when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

If someone claims the United States is an hereditary monarchy, that person is wrong. If someone claims the United States is a pure democracy, that is also wrong. But if Bill Thompson thinks that thinking the United States is a pure democracy is just as wrong as thinking the United States is an hereditary monarchy, then his view is wronger than both of them put together.

 

[funk de fino]

An epic trainwreck from the OP.

 

[linusrichard]

Israel doesn't. Britain doesn't.

Israel (assuming you're right) and Britain (and here I suppose we mean the UK) don't have written documents that say "The Constitution" at the top. That doesn't mean they don't have constitutions. As has been said, every nation has a constitution - the constitution is the ultimate foundation, the bedrock of all governmental decision-making, etc. The North Korean constitution may be as simple as: "What Kim Jong-Il says, goes." The UK and Israeli constitutions are obviously a bit more complex.

Whatever it is, written or unwritten, that tells us: Who makes laws? Who interprets laws? Who enforces laws? How are the people who do these things chosen? Are there things the government may never do? Are there things the government must always do? Et cetera et cetera, that thing is the constitution.

I would also argue that, just as the UK has an unwritten constitution, so too does the US have an unwritten portion of its constitution, and that the document we call "The Constitution" is actually only the most important part of our true constitution.