The Truth of Christianity vs. All Other Belief Systems

[wollery]

I guess you are referring to me? I do have concerns about Catholics for a good reason,
the Eucharist Christ is not the same Jesus I know.

Which doesn't mean that your Christ is the right one, just a different one.

And they believe their religious sacraments save them, not grace.

Do you believe that grace saves? I thought you were of the opinion that only a single specific belief saves.

And then most Catholics do not even read their Bibles.

How do you know this? Do you talk to many Catholics? And how many non-Catholics read their bibles? How could you know this?

Also they pray and worship Mary. She is not co redeemer with Christ that would make her equal to God and she's just a sinner like we are.
Then they pray to saints when Jesus says we only pray to the Father in his name.

They pray to saints to ask them to pass on messages to God. To the best of my knowledge they don't expect the saints to directly intercede.

And their Bible is different and they have added some false teachings like from the appocrapha.

How do you know the teachings are false?

There is no such thing as pergatory.

How do you know?

And they tell everyone to call the Pope the holy father, he's a sinner like everyone else and Jesus forbid people to call anyone Father but God.

In the US army priests are called Padre, which also means father, so are you suggesting that all US soldiers are sinning?

And I could go on and on but those are just a few of the lies Catholics believe that are un Biblical.

No, they contradict your bible. But the whole point of this thread was to discuss the relative truth of your brand of Christianity. So far you've offered nothing but bare assertions.

If they were born again like I am they would see those teachings are VERY BAD and they would repent of following them. We all must repent of false beliefs that go against the true teachings of Christ.

And if you were Catholic you would know that those teachings were the true word of God. Just saying "We're right and they're wrong" doesn't make it true. You need to at least try to provide some evidence before anyone will take you seriously.

Everyone needs to get Jesus right, and I see most Catholics don't.

It's a very arrogant (and therefore unchristian) attitude to assume that you know Jesus.

I know some may come to a saving faith, I just do not think they would go back to that church anymore as they would not be able to tollerate the lies like I can't tollerate them anymore. Once Jesus fills you with his Holy Spirit you will discern the truth of scripture verses all the lies that are not Jesus's teachings is all I can say about the matter. The elect will not be deceived!

So, no evidence of any sort then, just more bare assertions.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Which doesn't mean that your Christ is the right one, just a different one.

Do you believe that grace saves? I thought you were of the opinion that only a single specific belief saves.

How do you know this? Do you talk to many Catholics? And how many non-Catholics read their bibles? How could you know this?

They pray to saints to ask them to pass on messages to God. To the best of my knowledge they don't expect the saints to directly intercede.

How do you know the teachings are false?

How do you know?

In the US army priests are called Padre, which also means father, so are you suggesting that all US soldiers are sinning?

No, they contradict your bible. But the whole point of this thread was to discuss the relative truth of your brand of Christianity. So far you've offered nothing but bare assertions.

And if you were Catholic you would know that those teachings were the true word of God. Just saying "We're right and they're wrong" doesn't make it true. You need to at least try to provide some evidence before anyone will take you seriously.

It's a very arrogant (and therefore unchristian) attitude to assume that you know Jesus.

So, no evidence of any sort then, just more bare assertions.

My hubby and I have had family members on both sides that were Catholic. CD was kicked out of catecism because he asked the nuns too many questions they could not answer, then he never went back. And we know many Catholics do not read their Bibles because we ask them a lot and many of them admit it.

This topic is why I am going to write a document on this subject with Biblical references to try to help others see why it's improtant we all get Jesus right. Jesus taught us that unless a man be born again no one can enter the kingdom of God but explaining this to others, especially a Catholic is hard as most do not know how to answer when you ask them what they think of Jesus telling us this?

I know I come across a bit arrogant to some but this is not my intent. (and I'm in good company as Jesus was misinterpretted often but he knew what he was talking about just the same.) All I can say is God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past. The gift he has given me I need to share with others so hopefully they will grow in their knowledge and understanding of God better too. No one knows everything (except Jesus) but he does give us spiritual gifts to edify the saints and my gift I need to put to use. My hubby is even better at explaining things clearly to others but he just hasn't had enough time to join us here lately.

And yes I believe it is by grace alone we are saved. Accept Jesus for who he is(the Son of God) and his finished work on the cross. He shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, that's the plain truth of the gospel. It's lifting Jesus up on the cross that God uses to reach men. He is the one who draws men to himself when they receive him and then at a certain point he receives us and makes us born again with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mashuna]

This topic is why I am going to write a document on this subject with Biblical references to try to help others see why it's improtant we all get Jesus right.

I can't wait for this. It's going to be hilarious.

 

[yy2bggggs]

kathy:

This video made me think of you.

...so how about it? Are you just, as she says, spouting equations?

 

[zooterkin]

There is no such thing as pergatory.

How do you know?

Indeed. Kathy, tell us why you believe that, and why that reasoning doesn't apply to the things you do believe in?


(And it's 'purgatory'.)

 

[sphenisc]

...They pray to saints to ask them to pass on messages to God. To the best of my knowledge they don't expect the saints to directly intercede...

What's the distinction you're drawing here?

 

[joobz]

Everyone needs to get Jesus right, and I see most Catholics don't.

You can't even be honest enough to read a book when you say you will. Why should we believe you know god better than catholics?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

So...here's my question (and I'm absolutely positive it's been asked before...):

If this:

God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past.

is why you believe in your god...couldn't it be possible that this is just another example of spiritual deception? How do you know that you're not, again, being deceived by the leaders of your current cult (and, yes, Christianity is a cult by definition)? And "I just know" is not an acceptable answer. Give us some hard, factual evidence for how you know that you're no longer being deceived.

 

[Ethnikos]

I guess you are referring to me? I do have concerns about Catholics for a good reason,

I think Gambling Cruiser was commenting on my saying that my room mate I took in was a Catholic. Even though I am a Protestant, I would give her credit for being a Christian. This implies that I find Catholics only marginally Christian, which I do.
The woman who had lived in my house just prior to these goings on, in the story I was relating, had been a Catholic. While she was living there, she had joined up in a home church that rotated between a few member's houses. They were part of an association of independent home churches, based in Richmond, Virginia, that was a free thinking Protestantism. So, this person, who went by the name Kathy did become baptized (I was among the witnesses) in the pool at the home of the man who seemed to be the leader of this church, despite their not officially believing in having a designated leader.
After all that being rather fresh in my memory, I was not going to allow myself to be too discriminating against this new person in my life. I even had the crucifix that Kathy did not want anymore and hung it on the wall in an appropriate manner, for my new room mates benefit so she could at least have a reminder of her faith that she was brought up in. (I also had some other stuff Kathy had given me, an old Saint Christopher medal and a thing called a scarpulla, which is another type of medal, and put them on a chain and gave them to my new room mate to wear) By then I had come to the conclusion that remembering who Jesus was is the start to where you want to end up.

 

[supercorgi]

Kathy's judging people again. I thought her imaginary friend frowns on that?

Yep, it's her favorite hobby. She doesn't seem to realize that doing so makes baby Jesus cries and really pisses off his daddy.

 

[supercorgi]

I know I come across a bit arrogant to some but this is not my intent.

Wow, understatement of the century!

All I can say is God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past. The gift he has given me I need to share with others so hopefully they will grow in their knowledge and understanding of God better too. No one knows everything (except Jesus) but he does give us spiritual gifts to edify the saints and my gift I need to put to use.

Oh yes, I keep forgetting that you're so special. Tell me Kathy, does this "gift" give you the right to judge others? And why are you so special? Out of all the people in the world, why would God single you out? Others have prayed their hearts out yet never received this insight and this "gift."

Also "edify the saints?" I thought you didn't believe in saints. Only those bad old Catholics believe in saints don't they? You have confused me. And because you've received this "gift" does that mean you're a saint?

 

[Monster Machine]

My hubby and I have had family members on both sides that were Catholic. CD was kicked out of catecism because he asked the nuns too many questions they could not answer, then he never went back. And we know many Catholics do not read their Bibles because we ask them a lot and many of them admit it.

Based on the questions I have seen him ask on this forum, I can understand why.

This topic is why I am going to write a document on this subject with Biblical references to try to help others see why it's improtant we all get Jesus right. Jesus taught us that unless a man be born again no one can enter the kingdom of God but explaining this to others, especially a Catholic is hard as most do not know how to answer when you ask them what they think of Jesus telling us this?

Just a few comments here:
1. Kathy - you're non denominational, are you not? Do you not see that your claim of knowing the right Jesus flies in the face of years of tradition of other denominations?
2. Will you be providing footnotes and links to passages directly from Catholic books? Does that mean you will have read them, or will you simply regurgitate what protestants "think" is wrong with catholicism?

I know I come across a bit arrogant to some but this is not my intent. (and I'm in good company as Jesus was misinterpretted often but he knew what he was talking about just the same.)

Do you even know what arrogant means, Kathy? Because based on the previous paragraph, I don't think you know what it means to be arrogant. Even in this sentence, you are comparing yourself to a god.

All I can say is God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past. The gift he has given me I need to share with others so hopefully they will grow in their knowledge and understanding of God better too. No one knows everything (except Jesus) but he does give us spiritual gifts to edify the saints and my gift I need to put to use.

Emotional based feelings mean nothing. I feel good when I drink beer - should I worship the almighty Becks?

My hubby is even better at explaining things clearly to others but he just hasn't had enough time to join us here lately.

No he isn't, and praise Jebus for small miracles.

And yes I believe it is by grace alone we are saved. Accept Jesus for who he is(the Son of God) and his finished work on the cross. He shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, that's the plain truth of the gospel. It's lifting Jesus up on the cross that God uses to reach men. He is the one who draws men to himself when they receive him and then at a certain point he receives us and makes us born again with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Sorry - until you can even PROVE Jesus actually existed and rose from the dead, you may as well save your breath.


Monster

 

[RoboTimbo]

CD was kicked out of catecism because he asked the nuns too many questions they could not answer

That's funny. Perhaps you could answer this question then? This will be the third time I've asked it.

If a Muslim person were to pray to Allah for work and subsequently found a job, would you think that Allah intervened?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I think Gambling Cruiser was commenting on my saying that my room mate I took in was a Catholic. Even though I am a Protestant, I would give her credit for being a Christian. This implies that I find Catholics only marginally Christian, which I do.
The woman who had lived in my house just prior to these goings on, in the story I was relating, had been a Catholic. While she was living there, she had joined up in a home church that rotated between a few member's houses. They were part of an association of independent home churches, based in Richmond, Virginia, that was a free thinking Protestantism. So, this person, who went by the name Kathy did become baptized (I was among the witnesses) in the pool at the home of the man who seemed to be the leader of this church, despite their not officially believing in having a designated leader.
After all that being rather fresh in my memory, I was not going to allow myself to be too discriminating against this new person in my life. I even had the crucifix that Kathy did not want anymore and hung it on the wall in an appropriate manner, for my new room mates benefit so she could at least have a reminder of her faith that she was brought up in. (I also had some other stuff Kathy had given me, an old Saint Christopher medal and a thing called a scarpulla, which is another type of medal, and put them on a chain and gave them to my new room mate to wear) By then I had come to the conclusion that remembering who Jesus was is the start to where you want to end up.

Look, I'm going to be terribly honest here...

I honestly believe that if you were my "friend" and you were "helping me," I would likely refuse that help simply on principal. Just because you're "helping someone does not give you the right to proselytize to them to the point of hanging crucifixes in their room and giving them medallions to wear. Plenty of people would offer assistance without requiring that I undergo a constatnt barrage of religion when I am most vulnerable and feel obligated to you because of your "help." This is why I find your "help" to be less than honorable. Instead of simply helping your friend get her life back on track, you felt the need to push your beliefs on her. The need to "bring someone to Christ." This wasn't about her, this was about you and the self-indulgent need to proselytize (whether you can admit that or not is a different issue).

And...aren't the crucifix, St Christopher and scapular of Catholic origin? I could've sworn you aren't a fan of Catholicism...

 

[BobTheDonkey]

That's funny. Perhaps you could answer this question then? This will be the third time I've asked it.

Watch out, you might get kicked out of catecism for asking the wrong question too many times... lol

(or is it the 'right' question...guess that depends)

 

[Ethnikos]

And...aren't the crucifix, St Christopher and scapular of Catholic origin? I could've sworn you aren't a fan of Catholicism...

Yes, these were the artifacts of Catholic origin that were shed by, (she also went by Kate) the room mate previous to the one I took off the street. (read post #1391 for why I do not bring up her name, I should call her, person x)
Instead of launching into attaching person x's maybe fuzzily recollected Catholic upbringing, I decided to embrace it, thinking this could be a bridge between living a comparatively godless life, to eventually coming to a better understanding. It seemed foolish to just launch into attacking whatever kind of religiosity person x may have had the remnants of in her, at this point. Especially when I had witnessed someone (Kate) who found Christ in her neglected religion of her childhood, and then had moved on to a fuller understanding through Bible taught religion.

 

[Paulhoff]

Also they pray and worship Mary. She is not co redeemer with Christ that would make her equal to God and she's just a sinner like we are.

They use Mary as another go between, like Jesus, they know that she is not a so-called god. They are also the original christian church, yours is an offshoot, a cult.

Paul

 

[Ladewig]

the Eucharist Christ is not the same Jesus I know.

I can see why all of your others reasons seem important to you, but this particular one confuses me. Why is the Eucharist Christ not the same Jesus you know?

 

[Nonpareil]

I guess you are referring to me? I do have concerns about Catholics for a good reason,
the Eucharist Christ is not the same Jesus I know.

How so? Please explain the reason behind your belief that the Christ of your religion is not the Christ of the Catholic religion.

And they believe their religious sacraments save them, not grace.

No, they don't. They believe that Jesus saves, just as you do. The sacraments are a ritual growing-closer with God and Jesus to help them on their way to salvation.

And then most Catholics do not even read their Bibles.

Flat-out false.

Also they pray and worship Mary. She is not co redeemer with Christ that would make her equal to God and she's just a sinner like we are.

Again, a lie. And this one is just ludicrous. No one worships Mary. Catholics pray to Mary to put in a good word with the Big Guy Upstairs, nothing more.

Then they pray to saints when Jesus says we only pray to the Father in his name.

In Catholicism, praying to saints is like mailing a letter to someone's close friend with a message that it be passed on to its final addressee soon. The messages to the saints are, in Catholocism, assumed to be passed on to God. The saints are Jesus's secretaries.

And their Bible is different and they have added some false teachings like from the apocrypha.

Name one and explain why it is any more false than your Bible. While you're add it, show us some specific examples of why the Catholic Bible is different from the Christian.

There is no such thing as purgatory.

No such thing as Heaven or Hell either. In other words: Prove it.

And they tell everyone to call the Pope the holy father, he's a sinner like everyone else and Jesus forbid people to call anyone Father but God.

So I'm not allowed to call my father Father? And aren't all priests called Father? So what makes the Pope a special case?

And I could go on and on but those are just a few of the lies Catholics believe that are un Biblical.

And they could go on and on about all the lies Christians believe that are un-Biblical. Come to think of it, we can (and are) coming up with all sorts of lies you believe that are flat-out wrong.

If they were born again like I am they would see those teachings are VERY BAD and they would repent of following them.

If you were a member of the Catholic church, I feel very confident in saying that you would be arguing these exact same points against the Christian church.

We all must repent of false beliefs that go against the true teachings of Christ.

No, because they're not true teachings. They're false.


Everyone needs to get Jesus right, and I see most Catholics don't. I know some may come to a saving faith, I just do not think they would go back to that church anymore as they would not be able to tolerate the lies like I can't tolerate them anymore. Once Jesus fills you with his Holy Spirit you will discern the truth of scripture verses all the lies that are not Jesus's teachings is all I can say about the matter.

Why is it that no one realizes that this is circular logic? This translates to: "You must believe. Then you will believe."

The elect will not be deceived!

You have.

Next one.

My hubby and I have had family members on both sides that were Catholic. CD was kicked out of catecism because he asked the nuns too many questions they could not answer, then he never went back.

You're those nuns now, KK. We're asking you questions, and, in addition to flat-out ignoring them, you can't answer them.

And we know many Catholics do not read their Bibles because we ask them a lot and many of them admit it.

Have you ever read the Bible cover to cover? I doubt it. Most religious people only read the parts of the Bible that directly involve the latest Sunday Mass topic.


This topic is why I am going to write a document on this subject with Biblical references to try to help others see why it's improtant we all get Jesus right.

Please. When you finish it, post it here for peer review.

Jesus taught us that unless a man be born again no one can enter the kingdom of God but explaining this to others, especially a Catholic is hard as most do not know how to answer when you ask them what they think of Jesus telling us this?

What's with the question mark? And define, exactly, why Catholics seem nonplussed when you ask this. Have you ever tried asking a Christian to get their reaction? Maybe you're the only one with a ready answer.

I know I come across a bit arrogant to some but this is not my intent. (and I'm in good company as Jesus was misinterpretted often but he knew what he was talking about just the same.)

Whoa, there, little lady! You just made yourself out to be on the same level as Jesus himself! Ain't there somethin' in that thar Bible 'bout not settin' yourself up as a false god or some such? You just bought yourself a century in Hell!

All I can say is God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past. The gift he has given me I need to share with others so hopefully they will grow in their knowledge and understanding of God better too.

And if you were actually capable of sharing it, that would be fine. But so far I fail to see one person that you have successfully converted. So is this your fault or God's fault for not making the "gift" instantly clear to everyone?

No one knows everything (except Jesus)

And God, can't forget God.

but he does give us spiritual gifts to edify the saints and my gift I need to put to use.

Give an example of these gifts.

My hubby is even better at explaining things clearly to others but he just hasn't had enough time to join us here lately.

No, he's not.

And yes I believe it is by grace alone we are saved. Accept Jesus for who he is(the Son of God) and his finished work on the cross. He shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, that's the plain truth of the gospel.

So death = grace.

It's lifting Jesus up on the cross that God uses to reach men. He is the one who draws men to himself when they receive him and then at a certain point he receives us and makes us born again with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So the only way God can communicate with us is through torturing one of us.

Any more, KK?

 

[Ethnikos]

That's funny. Perhaps you could answer this question then? This will be the third time I've asked it.

This in regards to the question of a Muslim who asks God for help getting a job.
Here is a little guideline to prayer I put together to maybe answer this:

Having genuine piety and practical godliness is vital. Feeling the spirit of our needs, we can receive reward of God. He who would pray should enter into the meaning of his prayer, putting heart and soul into his request, giving the real expression of your needs. Realize how solemn a thing it is to approach the throne of God. Angels bow before God's throne with lowered faces. Remember you are debased by sin, so do not rush unconcerned into the divine presence. The holy angels themselves only approach the throne of God with the deepest reverence and highest respect . Know God, and take proper attitudes and utter proper words in your petitions. Come in contrition before God, come with reverence into the family circle and in the congregation of the people. Do not come to the time of prayer full of self-importance, and sound as if you thought they must give the Lord information, rather than as if you expected to receive something from his hand. Approach God as humble suppliants, realizing that you are dependent upon him for life and health, for food and clothing, and for every blessing, be they material or spiritual.

Anyone, I believe, who can be fit into being considered as being compliant with this guideline, can have their prayers answered.
(as a note to the above quote: it is a combination of different quotes that I highly edited and changed to fit together, but retains the original meaning of the authors)