The Truth of Christianity vs. All Other Belief Systems

[RoboTimbo]

This in regards to the question of a Muslim who asks God for help getting a job.
Here is a little guideline to prayer I put together to maybe answer this:
Anyone, I believe, who can be fit into being considered as being compliant with this guideline, can have their prayers answered.
(as a note to the above quote: it is a combination of different quotes that I highly edited and changed to fit together, but retains the original meaning of the authors)

Note the thread title. That did not answer the question. I'd still like to hear kathy's answer.

 

[Sun Countess]

I know I come across a bit arrogant to some but this is not my intent. (and I'm in good company as Jesus was misinterpretted often but he knew what he was talking about just the same.)

I personally don't think your Jesus was anything special, but did you just compare yourself to your god? It did make me wonder if Jesus came across the same way you do. People don't buy what you're selling because you're not very good at it, and maybe he wasn't either. He had a few gullible followers, sure.

All I can say is God has given me insight in a powerful way because he took me out of a lot of spiritual deception in my own past. The gift he has given me I need to share with others so hopefully they will grow in their knowledge and understanding of God better too. No one knows everything (except Jesus) but he does give us spiritual gifts to edify the saints and my gift I need to put to use.

So you believe your god singled you out for this very special gift, but then he gave you absolutely no knowledge on how to use it? That's like a game show awarding a car to a child or a blind man. They'd probably feel special for winning, but they should keep their gifts parked safely in a garage. Or give them to someone who could actually use them.

My hubby is even better at explaining things clearly to others but he just hasn't had enough time to join us here lately.

He might have slightly better spelling and grammar, but he still goes through the same mental contortions that most Christians need to, and he still uses a lot of source material that he hasn't read clearly. I know that whenever I've followed a link from you or Christian Dude telling me that "this guy explains it really well" I always get a good laugh. Your sources are meant to reinforce the beliefs of the already-gullible believers, and have no impact on anybody who hasn't already had a few sips of koolaid.

 

[Akhenaten]

Pergatory

 

[Nonpareil]

Epic lulz.

 

[jmcvann]

... This implies that I find Catholics only marginally Christian, which I do.
<snip>

Wait...what? Marginally Christian? I thought you either were or you weren't. Isn't there just one requirement? Believe that Jesus is the son of god? Which I'm pretty sure Catholics do.

So is there another list of things you cannot believe in even if you do believe that Jesus is the son of god? This is getting complicated. I need to get another legal pad...

 

[Simon39759]

Wait...what? Marginally Christian? I thought you either were or you weren't. Isn't there just one requirement? Believe that Jesus is the son of god? Which I'm pretty sure Catholics do.

So is there another list of things you cannot believe in even if you do believe that Jesus is the son of god? This is getting complicated. I need to get another legal pad...

My personal rule of thumb is that every that subscribe to the Apostle's creed is an acceptable Christians.

Funnily enough, the creed pre-dates most of the current schisms and, hence, I just realized, most Christian churches happily profess their acceptance of the Catholic church and of the communion of the Saints.
I wonder what KK's own brand of Christianity makes of it...

 

[Ethnikos]

Wait...what? Marginally Christian? I thought you either were or you weren't. Isn't there just one requirement? Believe that Jesus is the son of god? Which I'm pretty sure Catholics do.

"And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

I do not want a mill-stone on my neck, so I will not offend Catholics by claiming they are not Christians. They are just of another camp. That being said, we have a responsibility to inform them that their religion has been compromised by being in league with paganism from its beginning. One does not have to belong to a worldly corporation to be saved. We have Jesus who is our advocate before God and do not have to go through other men and accept their laws they added on to the Gospel.

So is there another list of things you cannot believe in even if you do believe that Jesus is the son of god? This is getting complicated. I need to get another legal pad...

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Practicaly everything around you, touched by man, is false, in one way or another. Pray and read the Bible and ask for and believe in the Spirit. Everything else should be taken in a sceptical way.

 

[TimCallahan]

Jesus at least says that we should really be good and not to just act in a way that looks good. He makes it known that God will give him the ability to give the Spirit to who he wishes, that will bring about a transformation in us that will make us able to do good things.
Like I said, there are probably a lot of people who are naturally pretty decent. But there could be a lot of people who could use a boost in their goodness factor. Understanding you are not so good, by having Jesus to compare yourself to, is the first step to getting better. My argument, and the reason for what ended up being a dragged out story, is that praying for the gift of the Spirit can bring you to a point of being capable of carrying out good woks, when you may not have been naturally.

That's all quite laudable, but, as far as I can tell, other religions also say one should be good, and not merely act well, and that they sould not boast, but be modest in their behavior. This might surprise you, but a whole lot of us unbelievers feel the same way. So I ask you, once again, what make Christianity superior to these other belief systems?

 

[Simon39759]

"And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

I do not want a mill-stone on my neck, so I will not offend Catholics by claiming they are not Christians. They are just of another camp. That being said, we have a responsibility to inform them that their religion has been compromised by being in league with paganism from its beginning. One does not have to belong to a worldly corporation to be saved. We have Jesus who is our advocate before God and do not have to go through other men and accept their laws they added on to the Gospel.
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Practicaly everything around you, touched by man, is false, in one way or another. Pray and read the Bible and ask for and believe in the Spirit. Everything else should be taken in a sceptical way.

But, considering that your own personal brand of Christianity branched out from Catholicism, wouldn't one expect it to have inherited its pagan attachment?
After all, many stories in the Bible, including several part of the NT, can be traced back to Pagan roots...

And, why should, everything but the Bible taken in a skeptical way? Isn't it the fallacy of special pleading?

 

[jmcvann]

"And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

So there are no other rules. Just the one. And Catholics adhere to that one. So they ARE Christians. Go ahead. It's all right to acknowledge a mistake. They are not "marginally" Christians. They ARE Christians.

I do not want a mill-stone on my neck, so I will not offend Catholics by claiming they are not Christians. They are just of another camp. That being said, we have a responsibility to inform them that their religion has been compromised by being in league with paganism from its beginning. One does not have to belong to a worldly corporation to be saved. We have Jesus who is our advocate before God and do not have to go through other men and accept their laws they added on to the Gospel.

But you are tip-toeing around the issue. You "will not offend Catholics by claiming they are not Christians," but you DO think they are lesser Christians than you are. You won't type the words, but it's what you think. I think Jesus, as quoted above, wouldn't like that very much. Millstone or not, why can't you just say it because it's the right thing to do?

 

[Christian Klippel]

Practicaly everything around you, touched by man, is false, in one way or another. Pray and read the Bible and ask for and believe in the Spirit. Everything else should be taken in a sceptical way.

The typical blindness of a believer.

What you just said is basically that the Bible is false. Because not only is it merely touched by man, through the many re-edits, additions and take-aways, but it is actually written by man. Unless Bibles suddenly fall from the sky out of nowhere, they are made by man. And since the very first version of that fantasy book also did not fall from the sky out of nothing, it was originally written by man.

Also, keep in mind that the Bible we know today is not the original Bible when it was first written.

Do you really fail to see the fallacy in the argument you just made?

Greetings,

Chris

 

[GeeMack]

Practicaly everything around you, touched by man, is false, in one way or another. Pray and read the Bible and ask for and believe in the Spirit. Everything else should be taken in a sceptical way.

Except your bible has been touched by man and is therefore false. Boy, you can't win for losing! Doomed to eternity in Hell, along with kurious_kathy, of course. She's a self professed sinner, one of the worst of the worst if her constant and adamant declarations of it are to be believed.

ETA: Christian Klippel got in ahead of me.

 

[Christian Klippel]

Oh, and regarding the OP i'd like to mention that any argument for the truth of a certain cult that refers to the Bible/Scripture/whatever of said cult is just void.

Simply because these writings are supposed to support that particular cult. That is what they are made for. There simply can be no "truth" in them regarding the validity/truth of the cult they belong to.

It's like the instructions for a game, lets say Monopoly. Of course, withe respect to a game of Monopoly, these instructions are "the truth". Also, a game of Monopoly is the "truth" with respect the instructions. However, they are not the truth for a game of poker or for bowling.

It's called self-referencing, i think.

So, whoever likes to presents arguments and/or validations of the truth of his/her particular cult, do so without any reference to the writings/scriptures/whatever of said cult.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Nonpareil]

Oh, and regarding the OP i'd like to mention that any argument for the truth of a certain cult that refers to the Bible/Scripture/whatever of said cult is just void.

Simply because these writings are supposed to support that particular cult. That is what they are made for. There simply can be no "truth" in them regarding the validity/truth of the cult they belong to.

It's like the instructions for a game, lets say Monopoly. Of course, withe respect to a game of Monopoly, these instructions are "the truth". Also, a game of Monopoly is the "truth" with respect the instructions. However, they are not the truth for a game of poker ow for bowling.

It's called self-referencing, i think.

So, whoever likes to presents arguments and/or validations of the truth of his/her particular cult, do so without any reference to the writings/scriptures/whatever of said cult.

Greetings,

Chris

I love you.

 

[Ethnikos]

That's all quite laudable, but, as far as I can tell, other religions also say one should be good, and not merely act well, and that they sould not boast, but be modest in their behavior. This might surprise you, but a whole lot of us unbelievers feel the same way. So I ask you, once again, what make Christianity superior to these other belief systems?

There's a term that gets used a lot to describe some sort of great person who will come along and save people out of their less than ideal situation they are in. That term is messiah. Well Christianity has the Messiah. That's also where the christ part of Christianity comes from. The word christ can be thought of as the Greek version of messiah. It was understood by the Jews of Jesus' day that the promised one would be someone who already existed with God and was known as the Word.
Jesus seemed very ordinary to the people of his home town. They knew his family and so he seemed too familiar to them and not what they would have expected to see as coming from God. They were apparently thrown off by the fact that they could see his origin, and that it did not match their apocalyptic vision of how things were to go down. So he was an actual flesh and blood, born of a woman, man.
The fact that he was a man does not negate that, as in the messianic expectations, he was sent from God. So, Jesus had a familiarity with God, and an actual sort of position and status in the heavenly scheme of things. This gave him an opening to go and assume another position based on his competency in the other assignments he had been given. There is a difference between the earlier assignment that he had before he became incarnate, and the ones on Earth and whatever he was to do after leaving Earth. Before being a man, Jesus was God. To be technical, he was the visible aspect of the unseeable glorious God. He was for all intents and purposes, God, as far as anyone could tell, except for someone like Lucifer who was a covering cherub and could, in a manner of speaking, see behind the curtain of Oz. Lucifer, thou he could tell there was something that to him did not seem right, could not understand that even though the Word was, in a manner of speaking, a representation of God, that did not make him not God.
Jesus the person was the result of, to put it into human terms, the detachment of what appeared to be Himself, into a real individual, being separate in existence to Who now was his Father.
Jesus, in legal terms, a wholly owned subsidiary of God, and fully a man, while returning to heaven takes on all the full attributes of God, though he is still an individual. All this for the benefit of those other men that he called his friends and brothers, who are such by virtue of adoption by the Father.
The superiority of Christianity is in that we have someone like ourselves, who is our brother and friend, in heaven, as God.

 

[Christian Klippel]

The superiority of Christianity is in that we have someone like ourselves, who is our brother and friend, in heaven, as God.

To me it looks as if your arguments are stuck in a loop. You say stuff like "Well Christianity has the Messiah". However, you have no proof for that assertion. The only proof you rely on is the Bible, which is simply a book written by, who would have guessed it, Christians.

So, all you say is "We have X, which others have not, and i know it because i have read Y, which is our Bible/scripture/whatever". Your post simply repeats what is written in there. You bring up no genuine evidence at all.

You claim that Christianity is superior simply because of a character described in the Bible. With that logic one can say that Monopoly is a game superior to chess because the Monopoly rules involve two dice, whereas chess doesn't use dice.

However, your argument falls flat on in face, because it has to rely on what is written in the Bible, and in no way really compares Christianity to other religions. What about the Islam and their prophet Mohamed? What about the Hindu's and their various gods? What about Thor, Hercules, etc, and the religions based on them?

What, from an neutral point of view, makes Christianity superior? Why is "the" Messiah said to be better than "the" Prophet? What are the advantages of one compared to the other?

I guess you and yours alike simply can never answer that question, because the only religion you really know about is your own. You have little to no insight into other religions. You simply fail to "walk in the shoes of others" to see their point of view.

While you can definitely word your responses much better than KK can, the result is the same. Arrogant claims with no proof to back them up. Only self-referential where the argument for the religion references what is said in it's scriptures, simply bblahblah in a loop.

You take the fantasy-stories of that book for granted. You use them to prop up your argument. Instead, first you should try to prove that was is written there is actually real. Unless you can prove that Jesus really existed, that he really came into existance as written there, that he really was resurrected, etc, unless then each and every argument that refers to him as proof is void, because it is safe to assume that Jesus is just a fictional character.

Try to think about it: God is supposed to have created man out of some dirt. He is supposed to be almighty, able to create whatever he wants. But still he needs Mary, which by the way was married to a man, to get pregnant with Jesus? That simply doesn't compute, sorry.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Ethnikos]

But, considering that your own personal brand of Christianity branched out from Catholicism, wouldn't one expect it to have inherited its pagan attachment?
After all, many stories in the Bible, including several part of the NT, can be traced back to Pagan roots...

Of course there are plenty of holdovers from Catholicism, into protestantism. Be sceptical of all that too. Especially something you see on tv.
There are some very strange things in the Bible. One thing I find objectionable is a certain type of vindictiveness. Paul would be a good example. What if there was a whole line of people like him, judging people? Well there is but without the good aspects of Paul. This sort of thing is always going to happen. Be suspicious and sceptical about all the people in the Bible. All is not sweetness and light because they are imperfect, except for Jesus, of course.

 

[Ethnikos]

So there are no other rules. Just the one. And Catholics adhere to that one. So they ARE Christians. Go ahead. It's all right to acknowledge a mistake. They are not "marginally" Christians. They ARE Christians.

Individuals who happen to have been born into the Catholic Church are Christian despite being a member. It is possible to have true piety despite being among people affilieted with something that is nothing more that an occultic society masquerading as being holy, but is actually satanic in nature. The purpose of the central ruling elite is to cloud the truth of Jesus with layer upon layer of deception, in order for them to ultimately be lost. Some people will always see the deception and seek the truth for themselves.
If you had every single person in the world baptized into the Catholic Church, you would still not have any more people being saved as you would if there was no officially organized hierarchical church. Having your name written on a roll in a building made by human hands does not guarantee you admittance into the City made in Heaven.

But you are tip-toeing around the issue. You "will not offend Catholics by claiming they are not Christians," but you DO think they are lesser Christians than you are. You won't type the words, but it's what you think. I think Jesus, as quoted above, wouldn't like that very much. Millstone or not, why can't you just say it because it's the right thing to do?

They are robbed of true faith in the sure salvation worked by Christ, once for all time. They are forced by a diabolical system of getting their salvation piece meal.

 

[Christian Klippel]

Individuals who happen to have been born into the Catholic Church are Christian despite being a member. It is possible to have true piety despite being among people affilieted with something that is nothing more that an occultic society masquerading as being holy, but is actually satanic in nature.

You are aware that Christianity has a single root, and that every variation in existance today comes from that root? And you are aware that, for example, protestantism is just a branch of catholicism, whereas the latter is the direct predecessor, which happens to be still in existance, of the former?

So, you basically belong to an offspring of that satanic occult society.

Are you aware of that? Maybe you want to take a look here.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Ethnikos]

What you just said is basically that the Bible is false. Because not only is it merely touched by man, through the many re-edits, additions and take-aways, but it is actually written by man. Unless Bibles suddenly fall from the sky out of nowhere, they are made by man. And since the very first version of that fantasy book also did not fall from the sky out of nothing, it was originally written by man.

Originally is the key word. Who wrote the very first text? People. What sort of people? Godly people. Why did they write something? They were inspired by God to write. Did God have a specific purpose for these things, or messages that were being written? To instruct His people. Will God allow his word to be made void? No.
A possibility could be that this great legendary figure, Daniel, who became very influential in the imperial court, could have been given authority to amass the surviving scrolls from Judea and to make a compilation from it. He would have had to establish a school to train the people who would do the work. It could be that some of the inferior quality work resulted after his death, and was finished without the wise supervision of Daniel.

Also, keep in mind that the Bible we know today is not the original Bible when it was first written.

They had to be copied as old texts wore out or deteriorated.

Do you really fail to see the fallacy in the argument you just made?

No. I am capable of looking at things from more than one perspective. I just do not see the importance of destroying things that are not properly appreciated. As far as criticizing opinions, let it rip, as far as I am concerned. We have something that is a remnant of something very ancient that was deemed by enough people as being important, that it has been preserved as a written document, not some old clay tablets dug out from tons of earth.