The Truth of Christianity vs. All Other Belief Systems

[six7s]

You need to ask God, anyway. It is more for our own benefit than anything, that we pray for what we need.

Just for a change, try thinking; you'll understand that you do NOT need to ask your god anything, ever

Take a look at the Lord's Prayer. Give us this day, our daily bread. Don't you think God knows you need to eat every day? By asking God to fill our needs, we acknowledge God as the One who gives us life.

Erm... the overwhelming majority of lives on this planet have NEVER asked your god for ANYTHING - and yet they eat and live and reproduce

Praying is not a waste of time by being a failure to do something useful.

Perhaps... If invoking the assistance of a mythological fantasy character is useful

Sometimes there is nothing else that can be done by a person concerning a specific situation.

How do you know this? Why do you believe/assert this?

For example, someone far away who needs long term encouragement.

Huh? Have you been drinking the Kool Aid, again?

"Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of. . ."
"Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that. . ."
"For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer,. . ."
"Brethren, pray for us."

It never ceases to amaze me that people with the mental faculties necessary to remember how to post on teh interwebs can forget all the times that praying has been obviously and undeniably futile, and yet they remain faithful (aka deluded) and optimistic (aka willfully ignorant of reality)

 

[Ethnikos]

Just for a change, try thinking; you'll understand that you do NOT need to ask your god anything, ever

It's good practice for when you have to ask God to save your soul.

Erm... the overwhelming majority of lives on this planet have NEVER asked your god for ANYTHING - and yet they eat and live and reproduce

That's because they are benefiting from the people around them who do pray.

Perhaps... If invoking the assistance of a mythological fantasy character is useful

You do things when you are able to. That's important. Don't blow off an opportunity to help out in a material way, to say you are going to pray about it.

How do you know this? Why do you believe/assert this?

Some people, for example, could be disabled and need of help them own selves, but can still pray because they do not have to move or spend money to do that.

Huh? Have you been drinking the Kool Aid, again?

Maybe, since I can not give a specific example from my own experience that can prove it. Just lots of stories from other people I have heard.

It never ceases to amaze me that people with the mental faculties necessary to remember how to post on teh interwebs can forget all the times that praying has been obviously and undeniably futile, and yet they remain faithful (aka deluded) and optimistic (aka willfully ignorant of reality)

Unless I have lost any ability to understand and remember things that have happened to me in the past.
Used to have a seriously messed up person living at my house who I thought was about the most pathetic person I had ever met. (I mean for a person who should have been really great but, because of circumstances, ended up bad off) One night when I was headed home from work, I was moved to pray that God would help me to love this person. I did not know why, but I felt something was happening that I had to pray about otherwise things would turn out badly. I went with that and prayed seriously that I could have a relationship with this person. When I got home my wonderful house mate had gone into some sort of frenzy (I imagine) probably looking for money, and had literally tuned my house upside down ransacking it. About anything you can imagine someone could possibly sell was gone. Years later, I still come to realizations that certain possessions of mine have disappeared. Not everything is so evident, since it is missing, at takes a long process of elimination to figure out it is just not there, anywhere.
People who knew her could not figure out why I hadn't hunted her down and killed her or something. All my praying did not have immediate visible results. It was not like I prayed very fervently and cried out very sincerely to God for help, then get this feeling of calm as I imagine God must surely be going to do something really great, and then found everything is great. Like to come home and find out this woman had made dinner for me, or something. Instead, I find my house looking like a tornado went through it.
Ok, so what did I get? Well nothing to speak about, really. She eventually called me up and asked me if she could come home and could I come pick her up. So God made me compassionate to where I would let her move back into my house. It was good for her, as it turned out, and I have to imagine she is all ok now, and she was able to survive a bad part of her life. It did end up working out for her and she is married now. In this case prayer worked, just nothing like how I wanted it to.

 

[six7s]

Erm... the overwhelming majority of lives on this planet have NEVER asked your god for ANYTHING - and yet they eat and live and reproduce

That's because they are benefiting from the people around them who do pray.

Yet again, you demonstrate what is either willful ignorance and/or a complete and utter lack of understanding of reality...

Your continued efforts to perpetuate your delusions - on a critical thinking forum - is both pathetic and ridiculous

TIP:

try acknowledging the reality that your god was, is and will always be unrecognised in MOST human societies... you never know... you might start thinking, and it doesn't hurt... much​

 

[Profwag]

So God made me compassionate to where I would let her move back into my house. It was good for her, as it turned out, and I have to imagine she is all ok now, and she was able to survive a bad part of her life. It did end up working out for her and she is married now. In this case prayer worked, just nothing like how I wanted it to.

I'm a compassionate person who helps people all the time, but I take responsibility for my own compassion any my own actions. I don't wait for God or anyone else to make me want to help someone.

Why do you think it was a heavenly force that gave you the compassion to help rather than your own internal morals that you were taught through your childhood? I'm not asking in an argumentative way, but I really am curious as to what makes people think it was God rather than their own thoughts.

 

[Marcus]

And if he gets a job, will that be the result of your prayers or the result of his diligence in trying to obtain work?

It will be of course the result of the prayers, goddidit.If he fails to find a job, it will be his fault.

And finally, if he gets picked over someone else who may not have prayed for work, does that mean the other person didn't pray enough or that the other person didn't have as good qualifications as he did?

The other person didn't pray enough.

 

[Marduk]

It will be of course the result of the prayers, goddidit.If he fails to find a job, it will be his fault.The other person didn't pray enough.

Marcus, you need to change the legend on your Avatar from "critical thinker" to something more suitable,

 

[Nonpareil]

In order to prove that I get something out of praying to God, you must prove that there's a statistical increase in success rate when praying to Yahweh. Problem is, several people and organizations, including Christians, have carried out such tests, and none of them, not even the Christians, have proven that there's a benefit to praying to Yahweh that you don't get from, say, Mazu, Loki or Feronia.

This doesn't disprove God's existence. In fact, it does the opposite. It proves that Mazu, Loki, Feronia, etc. are all real. And that the milk jug is a god.

"Thou art God," said Michael. "All that thinks and breathes and groks is God."
- Stranger In a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein

 

[RoboTimbo]

Safe-keeprs post made me think of a question for Xtians: Let's say you are down to your last dollar and have no food, so you pray for help. Later that day, you find a rolled up wad of $20 bills in church. Do you, a: take it as a sign from god that your prayers were answered and keep it or b: turn it in to the pastor?

kurious_kathy, I'd like to tag onto this with a similar question. If a Muslim person were to pray to Allah for work and subsequently found a job, would you think that Allah intervened?

 

[TimCallahan]

Maybe, since I can not give a specific example from my own experience that can prove it. Just lots of stories from other people I have heard.
Unless I have lost any ability to understand and remember things that have happened to me in the past.
Used to have a seriously messed up person living at my house who I thought was about the most pathetic person I had ever met. (I mean for a person who should have been really great but, because of circumstances, ended up bad off) One night when I was headed home from work, I was moved to pray that God would help me to love this person. I did not know why, but I felt something was happening that I had to pray about otherwise things would turn out badly. I went with that and prayed seriously that I could have a relationship with this person. When I got home my wonderful house mate had gone into some sort of frenzy (I imagine) probably looking for money, and had literally tuned my house upside down ransacking it. About anything you can imagine someone could possibly sell was gone. Years later, I still come to realizations that certain possessions of mine have disappeared. Not everything is so evident, since it is missing, at takes a long process of elimination to figure out it is just not there, anywhere.
People who knew her could not figure out why I hadn't hunted her down and killed her or something. All my praying did not have immediate visible results. It was not like I prayed very fervently and cried out very sincerely to God for help, then get this feeling of calm as I imagine God must surely be going to do something really great, and then found everything is great. Like to come home and find out this woman had made dinner for me, or something. Instead, I find my house looking like a tornado went through it.
Ok, so what did I get? Well nothing to speak about, really. She eventually called me up and asked me if she could come home and could I come pick her up. So God made me compassionate to where I would let her move back into my house. It was good for her, as it turned out, and I have to imagine she is all ok now, and she was able to survive a bad part of her life. It did end up working out for her and she is married now. In this case prayer worked, just nothing like how I wanted it to.

Let me posit some alternatives to your belief that God made you more compassionate to this crazy person:

Coming home and finding that she had ransacked your house, and later finding that she had stolen from you was God's way of telling you that it's unwise to share your home with a crazy person. Maybe he arranged this little demonstration so you would wise-up and get this person out of your house before, rather than after, she murdered you in your sleep.

Some number of years ago, my wife and I opened our home to an old friend of hers who had become homeless. We wanted to help her get back on her feet. Without going into detail, the end result of this act of compassion was tha she made our lives emotionally chaotic, picked fights with friends who visited and made our home environment physically chaotic. To make things worse, our help benefited her not at all. If anything, it enabled her to act even more erratically than she would have had she been living on the street. In the end, we had to tell her to go. The lesson we learned from this was not to open our home to homeless people, even those with whom we had a past history of friendship.

Another explanation for your increased - if misguided - compassion is that you, not God, are the source of the extra level of compasion for which you were in fact praying. Do either you or Kathy have any convincing evidence whatsoever that prayers are answered? Here's some hints of what might be convincing:

1) Increased probability: Show us some evidence that there's a significantly higher than 50% level of prayers being answered.

2) Evidence of supernatural effect: Show us that something happened after you prayed that can't be explained in a naturalistic fashion.

 

[Marduk]

SNIP what did I get? Well nothing to speak about, really. She eventually called me up and asked me if she could come home and could I come pick her up. So God made me compassionate to where I would let her move back into my house. It was good for her, as it turned out, and I have to imagine she is all ok now, and she was able to survive a bad part of her life. It did end up working out for her and she is married now. In this case prayer worked, just nothing like how I wanted it to.

or possibly she only bothered to manipulate you and steal from you because she knew that your association with your God made you weak. She certainly didn't believe in your god did she and look at what she gained
i.e. all your stuff

apparently God allows people to rip off his followers so in my mind he much more like this

than this

 

[Elizabeth I]

Take a look at the Lord's Prayer. Give us this day, our daily bread. Don't you think God knows you need to eat every day? By asking God to fill our needs, we acknowledge God as the One who gives us life.

I have children. I know that they need to eat to sustain life. I don't make them ask for food - I give it to them because that is what a good parent does.

Apparently your God is an abusive bastard who would let children starve unless they begged for food, using the proper formula.

 

[Marduk]

I have children. I know that they need to eat to sustain life. I don't make them ask for food - I give it to them because that is what a good parent does.

Apparently your God is an abusive bastard who would let children starve unless they begged for food, using the proper formula.

perhaps Abraham could tell you why God prefers the young "grain fed"

 

[slingblade]

I'd bet real money there are a lot of homeless Americans right this minute praying real hard for a meal and not getting one.

I'd bet real money there are folks who are unemployed right now through no fault of their own who won't be able to eat tonight, but they're praying.

I'd bet real money that there are millions all over the world who are praying for food, and not eating a bite.

How can we explain why so many people DO go hungry, in spite of their prayers?

 

[Oliver]

Faith is based on logic and reason for the most part. For example, when I sit in a chair I have faith the chair will support my weight because I know chairs are constructed of strong materials and designed to last and be durable as well as designed to support the weight of a person.

Stundied yet?

 

[Elizabeth I]

Stundied yet?

It's not about a conspiracy.

 

[Sun Countess]

kurious_kathy, I'd like to tag onto this with a similar question. If a Muslim person were to pray to Allah for work and subsequently found a job, would you think that Allah intervened?

I'm almost positive KK won't see my post before she responds, but I wanted to take a stab at what her answer will be.

If a Muslim prays to Allah and his prayer is answered, it's because Satan intervened, to keep the Muslim worshipping his false God, Allah, in an effort to keep him from worshipping the true god, Yahweh.

 

[Ethnikos]

I'm a compassionate person who helps people all the time, but I take responsibility for my own compassion any my own actions. I don't wait for God or anyone else to make me want to help someone.
Why do you think it was a heavenly force that gave you the compassion to help rather than your own internal morals that you were taught through your childhood? I'm not asking in an argumentative way, but I really am curious as to what makes people think it was God rather than their own thoughts.

I got off work at 11:30 pm and had a boring ride of about 40 min. to get home. As soon as I had gotten onto the highway, I had this overwhelming premonition that something horrible was happening concerning this woman who was at my house, and that it would be in jeopardy, our ability to continue any sort of relationship with this person unless I prayed about it.
This was not just some normal kind of thought that would pass by, but something that would not leave me alone. I felt compelled to pray about it and as I got into it, I became pretty emotional and cried over it, as if I really cared and that it made any difference.
When I got home, there was plenty of evidence that she had just recently cleared out, which she could have easily done since she knew when I would be home. Instead of freaking out over what I found, I stayed calm because I figured that God had prepared me for it by telling me something was happening, as it happened. I think God changed me by giving me the ability to put things in the proper perspective and not getting vindictive about it.
Later I told her, "it's just things, people are what are important."

 

[H'ethetheth]

Stundied yet?

It's not about a conspiracy.

It's definitely fundiable though.

 

[Marcus]

I'd bet real money there are a lot of homeless Americans right this minute praying real hard for a meal and not getting one.

I'd bet real money there are folks who are unemployed right now through no fault of their own who won't be able to eat tonight, but they're praying.

I'd bet real money that there are millions all over the world who are praying for food, and not eating a bite.

How can we explain why so many people DO go hungry, in spite of their prayers?

You just have to have the right attitude. Some of those people who prayed were bound to have gotten lucky and gotten a meal, which proves that Sky Daddy was looking out for them. You can forget about the rest, perhaps their faith wasn't strong enough, and there is always Original Sin to fall back upon, if nothing else comes to mind.

 

[Profwag]

I got off work at 11:30 pm and had a boring ride of about 40 min. to get home. As soon as I had gotten onto the highway, I had this overwhelming premonition that something horrible was happening concerning this woman who was at my house, and that it would be in jeopardy, our ability to continue any sort of relationship with this person unless I prayed about it.
This was not just some normal kind of thought that would pass by, but something that would not leave me alone. I felt compelled to pray about it and as I got into it, I became pretty emotional and cried over it, as if I really cared and that it made any difference.
When I got home, there was plenty of evidence that she had just recently cleared out, which she could have easily done since she knew when I would be home. Instead of freaking out over what I found, I stayed calm because I figured that God had prepared me for it by telling me something was happening, as it happened. I think God changed me by giving me the ability to put things in the proper perspective and not getting vindictive about it.
Later I told her, "it's just things, people are what are important."

Thanks for sharing your story. I appreciate the honesty.