The Third Roberts-Fetzer Debate

[twinstead]

Thank you, so when the next debate happens the caption will say "mark roberts tour guide" right? thats all i'm asking a little bit of transparency.
You need to be honest or your argument falls flat on its face.

So, I'll take that as a "NO, I can't really address his points, but I'll keep harping on minutiae"?

 

[jackchit]

I don't think we should be worried about rebutting the woo woo theories of someone who rose to the heights of tour guide.
Give us some proffesionals in this field, remember the burden of proof is with you and if you offer this guy as your star witness then you are f****d

 

[A W Smith]

fetzer lost to a tour guide. Shamefull. get over it.

Jackchit is that the best you can do to debunk mark Roberts? You bring no facts. You debate no 911 points. you cannot debunk any of Marks facts he brings to the table. You are an empty chasm of thought process. I think it is plain for everyone to see you lost this one.

 

[T.A.M.]

jack:

tour guide, bus driver, janitor, what ever. Mark is an expert on the information of 9/11. Call him an informationist, "encylcopedia 9/11", what ever, but regardless of his official "schooling" or lack there of (he is actually an English Major I believe) he is MORE qualified, based on his knowledge in the area, to comment on 9/11 than you, I, or Uncle Fetzer, so just stop harping on the "labelling" issue please.

Thanks

TAM

 

[twinstead]

I don't think we should be worried about rebutting the woo woo theories of someone who rose to the heights of tour guide.
Give us some proffesionals in this field, remember the burden of proof is with you and if you offer this guy as your star witness then you are f****d

You do realize that as far as 'professionals in the field' go, they overwhelmingly support the official story, right? Perhaps you would be best served by presenting some REAL experts (because this is important to you, and I respect that) who disagree with the official story.

So. Forget Roberts. Let's see what those whom you describe as experts have to say...

 

[A W Smith]

, remember the burden of proof is with you

Um.. no it isnt. The burden of proof is on you. it allways was. Bring your facts here and we will debate them. I assure you I am more qualified than you to debate them.

 

[T.A.M.]

I don't think we should be worried about rebutting the woo woo theories of someone who rose to the heights of tour guide.
Give us some proffesionals in this field, remember the burden of proof is with you and if you offer this guy as your star witness then you are f****d

The majority of the human race believes 9/11 occured as we were told, with very minor exception. As a result it is the 9/11 truth movement that are bringing "alternatives" to the official story, and therefore, the burden of proof is on YOU, not anyone else, to prove your extraordinary claims true.

TAM

 

[Slayhamlet]

I don't think we should be worried about rebutting the woo woo theories of someone who rose to the heights of tour guide.
Give us some proffesionals in this field, remember the burden of proof is with you and if you offer this guy as your star witness then you are f****d

Your entire argument about this debate could literally provide a perfect example of ad hominem fallacy in any introductory text on formal logic. You clearly have nothing of substance to add.

ETA: By the bye, who's the star witness for the woo camp these days? It's hard to tell which of your "experts" are genuine and which are disinfo agents. It seems to change about every 2 weeks or so.

 

[jackchit]

Jackchit is that the best you can do to debunk mark Roberts? You bring no facts. You debate no 911 points. you cannot debunk any of Marks facts he brings to the table. You are an empty chasm of thought process. I think it is plain for everyone to see you lost this one.

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.
you follow the guide if you wish i prefer to think for myself.
Quite apt...guide dog for the blind.
Now stop lying and when roberts is on one of these shows make the caption accurate so that everyone knows where they stand and who they are listening to.
roberts is clearly ashamed of his occupation and is trying to make himself, something he is not.
Fact: Mark roberts is a tour guide,
shall we admit that and ammend all hifire video's? no that would not be good for the 911 deniers.
Roberts by his own admission is a de-bunker, now the most obvious thing he can de-bunk is his holy grail, he cares not the rights and wrongs he cares only for his victories and the harder the victory the greater his own feeling of self satisfaction.
He is a tour guide who should have made it bigger and thats why he needs to prove people wrong however spurious its his redemption.
he is a tour guide and that is against him always

jackchit, as you should know by now, the Conspiracy Theory sub-forum is under a stricter interpretation of the membership agreement. Do not attack the person, attack the argument. I will leave your last two sentences present, rather than disrupt the flow of the thread - but in the future stick to dealing with the facts of someone's argument and leave speculative commentary about their integrity and motivation out of the discussion.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[twinstead]

Your entire argument about this debate could literally provide a perfect example of ad hominem fallacy in any introductory text on formal logic. You clearly have nothing of substance to add.

Not entirely. I think ideologue 101 is also well-represented.

 

[Mercutio]

yeah right that is much less a body of work than a tour guide, and this is your best man.... lol

Einstein was a patent clerk.

No, Gravy is not Einstein--my point is considerably simpler. You are arguing from authority; you list Fetzer's degrees, but not his area of expertise. Gravy has far more academic qualifications than "tour guide" (as a resident of New Hampshire, I find Gravy's undergrad qualifications quite adequate), but frankly, who cares? Neither Fetzer nor Gravy has advanced degrees in 9/11; nobody does. Gravy has studied the available data, though, with the same rigor that he studied the tour guide info (did you know that tour guides have to pass a rigorous test? Do you know how Gravy did?), and it is the available data that is what is important.

Do not argue Gravy's qualifications; they are irrelevant. Argue his data. If you can.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Give us some proffesionals in this field

Err... what about those hundreds, if not thousands, of people involved in the investigation? They're there. Just because you close your eyes to them doesn't make them go away.

remember the burden of proof is with you and if you offer this guy as your star witness then you are f****d

You do know what a witness is, don't you?

 

[twinstead]

Do not argue Gravy's qualifications; they are irrelevant. Argue his data. If you can.

Any credible opponent of Gravy would have argued his data from second one; attempts at undermining him due to some lame argument about relevant qualifications only smacks of desperation.

Hey. If he is wrong then have at him. I'm a layman myself. If some expert can put him down then HAVE AT IT. I don't care. I just want the facts.

 

[~enigma~]

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.

And can you provide an example of him telling or ordering us what to think please.

i prefer to think for myself.

Then kindly show us how you do.

he is a tour guide and that is against him always

Is that some kind of prejudice? Are you a bigot and now we have to contend with the anti-zionist woo and the newly formed anti-tourguide brotherhood of woo?

 

[A W Smith]

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.
you follow the guide if you wish i prefer to think for myself.
Quite apt...guide dog for the blind.

We deal with facts too

Now stop lying and when Roberts is on one of these shows make the caption accurate so that everyone knows where they stand and who they are listening to.
Roberts is clearly ashamed of his occupation and is trying to make himself, something he is not.

Uh oh you just said you deal with facts. But now you filter your facts dependiong on the employment class status of the messenger. Thats a fatal flaw. You shoild, as we do, research the facts after they are presented, as normal mature logical adults do.

Fact: Mark Roberts is a tour guide,
shall we admit that and ammend all hifire video's? no that would not be good for the 911 deniers.
Roberts by his own admission is a de-bunker, now the most obvious thing he can de-bunk is his holy grail, he cares not the rights and wrongs he cares only for his victories and the harder the victory the greater his own feeling of self satisfaction.

ad hominem fallacy

He is a tour guide who should have made it bigger and thats why he needs to prove people wrong however spurious its his redemption.
he is a tour guide and that is against him always

he has admitted on hard fire during a previous debate that he is. in fact a tour guide. had you "researched' that. you would have known. poor you.

 

[T.A.M.]

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.

and this reflects poorly in what way? The twoof movement is lead by the following:

1. two twenty-something filmmaker wannabes (Avery/Bermas)
2. A Philosophy Professor (Fetzer)
3. A Theologian (Griffin)
4. A Loud Mouth Talk Show Host (A. Jones)
5. An Economist (Reynolds)

you follow the guide if you wish i prefer to think for myself.
Quite apt...guide dog for the blind.

have you forgotten the tightened rules on this subforum. That is clearly an inflammatory remark, insinuating we are all blind.

Now stop lying and when roberts is on one of these shows make the caption accurate so that everyone knows where they stand and who they are listening to.

No, what you really mean, is put "tour guide" under him because you feel it will belittle and demean his position in the eyes of the viewer.

roberts is clearly ashamed of his occupation and is trying to make himself, something he is not.

No, you have no respect for his position, so you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Fact: Mark roberts is a tour guide,
shall we admit that and ammend all hifire video's? no that would not be good for the 911 deniers.

All the deniers know who Mark is and what he does. He still knows the facts of 9/11 ALOT better than you or I.

Roberts by his own admission is a de-bunker, now the most obvious thing he can de-bunk is his holy grail, he cares not the rights and wrongs he cares only for his victories and the harder the victory the greater his own feeling of self satisfaction.

Opinion, and one based on your ill feelings for him and nothing more.

He is a tour guide who should have made it bigger and thats why he needs to prove people wrong however spurious its his redemption.
he is a tour guide and that is against him always

You are acting arrogant and pompous. This is good, as it once again allows the fence sitters to see the attitude and behaviour of the truth movement in action.

There are Structural Engineers, Aerospace Engineers, Architects, Physicians, and all sorts of other professionals on this site, all of whom respect Mark regardless of his profession. You are the only one here obsessed with it.

No positions as a tour guide available across the pond I guess.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

... Neither Fetzer nor Gravy has advanced degrees in 9/11; nobody does.

If there were such a degree, Mark Roberts would be a PhD, and world expert, Fetzer a struggling student.

TAM

 

[Brainache]

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.
you follow the guide if you wish i prefer to think for myself.
Quite apt...guide dog for the blind.
Now stop lying and when roberts is on one of these shows make the caption accurate so that everyone knows where they stand and who they are listening to.
roberts is clearly ashamed of his occupation and is trying to make himself, something he is not.
Fact: Mark roberts is a tour guide,
shall we admit that and ammend all hifire video's? no that would not be good for the 911 deniers.
Roberts by his own admission is a de-bunker, now the most obvious thing he can de-bunk is his holy grail, he cares not the rights and wrongs he cares only for his victories and the harder the victory the greater his own feeling of self satisfaction.
He is a tour guide who should have made it bigger and thats why he needs to prove people wrong however spurious its his redemption.
he is a tour guide and that is against him always

And Einstein was a Patent Office Clerk. Does that make the Theory of Relativity wrong? He did it in his spare time.

I'm not comparing Gravy directly to Einstein, but if this debate was held in 1907 between Einstein and (insert Edwardian philosopher here) would you insist that Einstein's caption read "Office Clerk" instead of "Mathematics Theoritician"?

Your insistence that Gravy's job somehow invalidates his research is totally bogus and just shows how you are totally bereft of real arguments.

ETA I see I'm not the first to raise the Einstein Clerk thing. Damn my slow typing.

 

[Slayhamlet]

I deal with facts, and the fact is we have a tour guide telling us what to think.
you follow the guide if you wish i prefer to think for myself.
Quite apt...guide dog for the blind.
Now stop lying and when roberts is on one of these shows make the caption accurate so that everyone knows where they stand and who they are listening to.
roberts is clearly ashamed of his occupation and is trying to make himself, something he is not.
Fact: Mark roberts is a tour guide,
shall we admit that and ammend all hifire video's? no that would not be good for the 911 deniers.
Roberts by his own admission is a de-bunker, now the most obvious thing he can de-bunk is his holy grail, he cares not the rights and wrongs he cares only for his victories and the harder the victory the greater his own feeling of self satisfaction.
He is a tour guide who should have made it bigger and thats why he needs to prove people wrong however spurious its his redemption.
he is a tour guide and that is against him always

Actually, we have just about every structural engineer who has ever lived to back up our side, and the consesus of the scientific community. But I can see from your bizarre obsession with the minutiae of Mark's life how you allowed yourself to get riled up into a murderous rage. You are obviously infatuated with the man.

 

[twinstead]

Actually, we have just about every structural engineer who has ever lived to back up our side, and the consesus of the scientific community. But I can see from your bizarre obsession with the minutiae of Mark's life how you allowed yourself to get riled up into a murderous rage. You are obviously infatuated with the man.

Yeppers