The supernatural

[Cosmic Yak]

Yeah. I studied the bible since I was five. It's why I am an atheist. Because it's bollocks. In later life I read the quran, and that's utter bollocks. We could go on, but what would be the point of that? All the magic books are bollocks, every single one.

One of the things I found interesting in my reading was the Silmarilion. It shows how a writer can simply invent a fictional deific universe. Out of whole cloth. How is the wholy babble any different?

I was brought up a Catholic. When I was 14, I started to have doubts, so I made the cardinal mistake no Catholic should ever make, which was to read the New Testament. Once I'd finished, spotted the numerous contradictions in it, and also the fact that what was being taught in church was not what Jesus had actually said (assuming for the moment that he actually ever existed), I was done.
I have read the Quran too, twice. It is a horrible book, full of hideous threats against those who disbelieve or disobey their monster of a god, and containing almost no positive moral guidance.
On the other hand, I like the Tao Te Ching and some of the other Taoist texts. They provide advice for living a good life, and don't require belief in angry old men living in the sky.
Interestingly, one of them- possibly the Hua Hu Ching, but I may be misremembering- mentions that the moon does not have its own light, but shines due to reflected light from the sun. That is scientific knowledge, and doesn't need desperate dishonest semantics to prove it.
It also doesn't mean that this knowledge came from divine revelation: study of nature is integral to Taoism, and the understanding that comes from that comes from us, not from a deity.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Yes, you have roughly grasped my beliefs. Now bear in mind my beliefs come from the mouths of spirit guides, talking through trance mediums which I have listened to in my own lifetime. Not from a 1400 year old book, like your views.

Hi. Respect to your theory about the soul and the world of purgatory. Please; Do the duty and work of the soul. Also, what is the nature and sex of the soul? How does the soul interact with the body and in the universe? If possible, I would like you to answer these questions briefly in this group. Thank you and good health and success to you

 

[heydarian saeed]

The gospel of Barnabas is considered fiction and is not from the bible.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_and_the_Bible

The answer to your question is the same. That I said. And the most complete answer. For more information, you can refer to the explicit and clear text of verse 6/61.
The meaning of verse 6 of Sura 61:
And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said: O children of Israel, I am the messenger of God unto you. I acknowledge the Torah before me. And I give glad tidings to the Messenger who comes after me and his name is Ahmad. So when he brought them clear proofs, they said: This is clear magic.
There is no denying this verse. And no one can deny it.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Clearly you see this "stand(ing) like a moutain" thing as some kind of an honorable attribute, something admirable, but what it is is actually you holding on to your beliefs in the face of reason, in the face of evidence, in the face of logic.

If you could only reread all of this thread with some semblance of a disinterested POV, then you'd be fascinated --- and horrified --- to see how you desperately keep on directly avoiding every argument that punctures your irrationality, how you brazenly keep on misrepresenting every argument that you can into some form that is very different than what was said and in which you try to somehow find some support for your own superstitions.

I'm saying this because it appears to me that you're not being deliberately dishonest, that you've not set out to deliberately troll us. Yet your brainwashing simply does not let you see what is in very clear view right in front of your eyes.

Just try rereading this thread from the beginning. Who knows, something might click, just perhaps?

Hello. Thank you very much for your devotion to me. There is no superstition or brainwashing. I speak very clearly. If you do not intentionally understand it depends on your own thoughts. My words in this group do not need to be interpreted and explained. Because it is quite clear. Of course, I have corrected my theories with the guidance of the Qur'an. Which you will see in the next messages.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Which isn't such a big deal, as it is the standard practice in the households of all practicing Muslims.

 

[heydarian saeed]

You do not seem to be able say anything true at all. The above is again untrue – you say we are asking the same question that infidels asked in 600AD at the time of Mohamed. But we are asking you about what has been discovered by science in modern times … they could never have asked about any of that in 600AD because that was 1400 years before any of it was known to anyone ...

… we have asked you about the fact that science has discovered Man's evolution (quite a long time ago now), and how that shows that your God definitely did not make Humans … no infidels in 600AD ever asked about that!

No infidels in 600AD ever asked about any of the discoveries of modern science! No infidels ever asked about fossils and dinosaurs & what that has told us about the age of the Earth and the evolution of millions of species ... or asked about germs and disease and modern medical cures for those things … nobody in 600AD asked why the universe is 13.8 billion years old!

Why did your Koran never mention any of that? Why did God not tell the faithful how to avoid simple diseases from germs and bacterial infections? Nobody was asking your preachers about that in 600AD.

I'm, sorry but it's just yet again completely untrue to say we are putting to you the same questions and the same evidence that infidels have always used since 600AD … so yet again, whatever you say in these posts, all of the claims you keep making, the whole lot always seems to be completely untrue about everything!

I mean the "type" of your questions. That is, you take the same objections to the Qur'an as the infidels of the seventh century did to Muhammad. You criticize the scientific references of the Qur'an and make fun of it. This is exactly what the infidels of the seventh century said. And they mocked Muhammad and the Qur'an. I did not mean that the infidels of Muhammad's time knew something about modern science and objected to Muhammad. No.
The people of Muhammad's time were as illiterate as Muhammad himself. Who has been illiterate. None of them knew anything about modern science today. And they did not understand anything. And they did not ask the scientific questions you mean. The following are some of the objections of the disbelievers of Muhammad's time who are one with you:
You say that: Muhammad was mad - Muhammad was a liar - his words were not his own - His words are baseless - He told myths - He fantasized - He said ancient words - He was caught in magic - Idiot And he is ignorant - he has been misguided - he has no superiority over you.
- He wants to mislead you from your knowledge - The promises of God and Muhammad are false - A gang and a group helped him - He was under pressure - He was weak - His words were baseless and false - Most importantly; You deny God, the Qur'an, Muhammad, the Resurrection, and the truth. Because disbelievers habit is to cover up the truth. And the habit of the disbelievers is stubbornness in denying God. And they continue this ugly approach for the rest of their lives. It is better to think wisely. The way to repentance is always open.
You talk more out of speculation. While the suspicion is unfounded. And is rejected. These are the objections you make to the Qur'an and me. I do not seek to acquit myself - the Qur'an - Muhammad and God. Because I do not see any need for acquittal. The truth is clear. You can not deny the existence of the sun. Because it is. It has light. Can be seen. Everything I said about God, the Qur'an and Muhammad is as clear as the sun. Does anyone understand with reason and logic who is right?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Yes. Just provide the passages in the Quran that give the answers. I don't want your interpretation of how the Quran answers the questions I just want to read the text myself.

Hello. I have been thinking for a few days. Have you reached the point of thinking: Are there any fundamental particles in the Qur'an? And do you have the capacity to hear this debate? If so, it is a very happy place. So before I get into that, let me give you and the rest of the group an introduction.
I must first say that I have told you about elementary particles in several messages in my article. I have told you about singularity in the Qur'an. I have told you about the creation of the universe and the beginning of the expansion of the universe. This issue has been mentioned in different ways in 11 verses of the Quran. And I see that you have been in the group since the beginning of this discussion. And you are active. And I thank you. Following your recent question, I am ready to tell you more about this topic.
...

 

[heydarian saeed]

... 1734: First, I will answer the second part of your question. The word blood is mentioned 10 times in the Qur'an. And more attention has been paid to its religious rulings. And the details are not discussed. Of course, in some verses, some details are also mentioned. But I have not done much research on this subject. And this does not object to the Qur'an. I have already said that the Qur'an is not the encyclopedia of all sciences. And he has only pointed out some angles of science. And in some cases, he talked about some details. He left the details to us.
But in the first part of your question, there is an important issue. And I want to focus on that more. I hope we have the capacity to accept the facts. And let's not just look at the cases. Let me first say that: Ancient texts seem to be myths or superstitions at first glance. And you are right. But I advise you not to judge too soon. And let's find out more.

The Quran is one of the ancient texts. And this is true. Until the age of 18, I only read the Quran. (Until 1989) And because I am a Muslim, I only respected the book of my religion. After that, I entered the university. My opinion was that the Qur'an has no new words. And old. And it leaves many of my needs unanswered in the new age and modernity. I got acquainted with the books of intellectuals in Iran.
...

 

[heydarian saeed]

... 1734: Allameh Tabatabai - Professor Dr. Shariati - Professor Motahhari - Professor Mofatteh - Jalal Al-Ahmad - Professor Dr. Bazargan - Professor Taleghani - Professor Dr. Beheshti - Professor Hassanzadeh Amoli - Professor Jafari Sobhani and ... and I read many books from them. A door opened on me. And I saw that the contents of the Quran are not old. It has words that have been discovered in the new age.
So I was eager to look at it with a new perspective. Let me see what he has to say about modern science and new technology. I checked. And I read a lot. Each time I reviewed a new article, I saw something new. So now I love the Quran. My faith in it was reconsidered. And became stronger. But I always leave this way open. And I'm always waiting. I see the content for or against the Qur'an. And I check. Everything I have seen so far. He agreed with the Quran. Of course, I also read the opinion of the opposition. Like this group that only plays the instrument of opposition to the Qur'an.
So far, I have not been proven to speak against the truth in the Qur'an. And he cannot reject the Qur'an. Everything I have seen in the Qur'an is true. And it is not unreal. I do not expect you to accept my opinion. Just let all the comments come out. And look at the comments realistically and truthfully. And do not judge too soon. Let freedom of expression prevail everywhere.
...

 

[heydarian saeed]

... 1734: I told you in my article in the initial messages in this group. And I introduced basic particles in quantum science. And I told you singularity in 11 verses of the Qur'an. I told you about the cosmic expansion in verse 30 of Sura 21, which is clearly stated in the Qur'an. Let me tell you the following with additional explanations. Maybe this explanation of mine is a correction for my previous opinion.
Verses that refer to elementary particles and I say in this group. The verses are torment and hell. It may be unpleasant for many of you. I apologize for this. Of course, you who deny the Qur'an, these verses are the destiny that you have chosen. So be careful. And think well. The way to repentance is always open.
Read more. The verses of the torment of the deniers of God and the Qur'an. The fire of hell is not from our wood and gas and fuel. The fire of the universe is not fire at all compared to hell. And it does not burn! Hell is not the fire of wood and coal. Its firewood is quarks and bosons.!!

 

[Pixel42]

No, it's not that it's standard for Muslims to start brainwashing their children at the age of five. It's

If you were told when you started studying the Qu'ran that its contents were fact rather than belief then you were indoctrinated rather than educated. This is not a good thing. It's the reason you were unable to assess those contents rationally and logically when you reached adulthood.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I was brought up a Catholic. When I was 14, I started to have doubts, so I made the cardinal mistake no Catholic should ever make, which was to read the New Testament. Once I'd finished, spotted the numerous contradictions in it, and also the fact that what was being taught in church was not what Jesus had actually said (assuming for the moment that he actually ever existed), I was done.
I have read the Quran too, twice. It is a horrible book, full of hideous threats against those who disbelieve or disobey their monster of a god, and containing almost no positive moral guidance.
On the other hand, I like the Tao Te Ching and some of the other Taoist texts. They provide advice for living a good life, and don't require belief in angry old men living in the sky.
Interestingly, one of them- possibly the Hua Hu Ching, but I may be misremembering- mentions that the moon does not have its own light, but shines due to reflected light from the sun. That is scientific knowledge, and doesn't need desperate dishonest semantics to prove it.
It also doesn't mean that this knowledge came from divine revelation: study of nature is integral to Taoism, and the understanding that comes from that comes from us, not from a deity.

Hello and respect to your opinion. Divine revelation is not what the common people think. No. Not so. The channel of divine revelation is a purely scientific thing. It is not a dream. It is not fantasy. Unfortunately, those who had the duty to interpret and interpret the Qur'an according to logical and scientific principles did not do so. And this book is up to date and completely scientifically abandoned and abandoned. I feel sorry for ourselves Muslims. That the authorities did not do the right thing. And they have not interpreted and interpreted the Qur'an scientifically. That's why I give you the right. Because you do not know the true meaning of this valuable book? And there are not enough sources for the true meaning of the Qur'an.

 

[heydarian saeed]

No, it's not that it's standard for Muslims to start brainwashing their children at the age of five. It's

If you were told when you started studying the Qu'ran that its contents were fact rather than belief then you were indoctrinated rather than educated. This is not a good thing. It's the reason you were unable to assess those contents rationally and logically when you reached adulthood.

Hello. You are right. When I entered the university, I threw out all my ideas !! And I deleted. Be sure. I started again. And I looked at the Qur'an intellectually. It's all science. Quranic torments are also scientific !! Yes. You are surprised. And you are right. Wait for me to tell you. I have new words for you.

 

[Lothian]

Yes. Just provide the passages in the Quran that give the answers. I don't want your interpretation of how the Quran answers the questions I just want to read the text myself.

Hello. I have been thinking for a few days. ..., I am ready to tell you more about this topic.
...

Heydrarian.. I don't want you to tell me anything. I just want the text that explains atoms and the particles therein.

 

[Pixel42]

There is no science in the Qu'ran. If you think there is, then you have definitely not overcome your indoctrination.

 

[Scorpion]

Hi. Respect to your theory about the soul and the world of purgatory. Please; Do the duty and work of the soul. Also, what is the nature and sex of the soul? How does the soul interact with the body and in the universe? If possible, I would like you to answer these questions briefly in this group. Thank you and good health and success to you

Sex is for reproduction, spirits do not reproduce, therefore there is no sex in the spirit world. The spirit may maintain the gender of its last incarnation. It will have the appearance of male or female. But there is no sexual function in the spirit body.

I heard it directly from a spirit guide speaking through a trance medium, and the spirit said. "sex is neutral in the spirit world"

The spirit body is of a higher level than the physical body, and spirits can fly by willing it, and teleport themselves instantly to any destination they think of.

 

[Scorpion]

The answer to your question is the same. That I said. And the most complete answer. For more information, you can refer to the explicit and clear text of verse 6/61.
The meaning of verse 6 of Sura 61:
And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said: O children of Israel, I am the messenger of God unto you. I acknowledge the Torah before me. And I give glad tidings to the Messenger who comes after me and his name is Ahmad. So when he brought them clear proofs, they said: This is clear magic.
There is no denying this verse. And no one can deny it.

I do deny it, the gospel of Barnabas is bunk. It is not from the bible.

 

[Scorpion]

Read more. The verses of the torment of the deniers of God and the Qur'an. The fire of hell is not from our wood and gas and fuel. The fire of the universe is not fire at all compared to hell. And it does not burn! Hell is not the fire of wood and coal. Its firewood is quarks and bosons.!!

You don't know that, you are just making it up, like Muhammad himself made up the horrible verses about hellfire. These verses are not true, and are an insult to the real God.

If God burns anyone in eternal hellfire for any reason then he is a terrible monster. All humanity should unite against him and cry out defiance with one voice. But you seem quite content that the God described in the Quran burns people, and you seem to approve of it.

 

[ynot]

You don't know that, you are just making it up, like Muhammad himself made up the horrible verses about hellfire. These verses are not true, and are an insult to the real God.

"The horrible fake Duck God believers are just making stuff up and insulting my real Rabbit God" .
"The horrible fake Rabbit God believers are just making stuff up and insulting my real Duck God" .

If God burns anyone in eternal hellfire for any reason then he is a terrible monster. All humanity should unite against him and cry out defiance with one voice. But you seem quite content that the God described in the Quran burns people, and you seem to approve of it.

But you seem quite content that the God described in the Bible burns people in eternal hellfire and drowns almost all life on Earth, and you seem to approve of it.

Argumentum ad "I know you are but what am I?"

 

[Tassman]

Which isn't such a big deal, as it is the standard practice in the households of all practicing Muslims.

"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man." St. Ignatius Loyola.

In short, INDOCTRINATION. It's common to ALL religions as heydarian saeed is demonstrating so eloquently.