The Skeleton Key to Mystical Interpretation

[JohnG]

Shall we go back and take a closer look at exactly what was said? Usually when that happens I am vindicated, because you guys misunderstand me so often.

Perhaps you are misunderstood so often because you don't express yourself very well? Or what you are attempting to express is by its very nature incoherent due to the fact that it is based on a false and/or poorly defined premise?

By ignoring everyone who irritates you, you are soon going to find yourself on the wrong side of a two way mirror, where everyone can see you but you can't see them. A sort of rhetorical limbo, if you will.

Limbo appears to be mentally masturbating in front of us all.

Shall I scatter seeds on the desert sand?

 

[PixyMisa]

I have already brought plenty, for those with eyes to see. But you sir are what in Biblical terms is called blind, in Buddhist terms ignorant. Can't help ya.

A famous Lisp Hacker noticed an Undergraduate sitting in from of a Xerox 1108, trying to edit a complex Klone network via a browser. Wanting to help, the Hacker clicked one of the nodes in the network with the mouse, and asked "what do you see?" Very earnestly, the Undergraduate replied "I see a cursor." The Hacker then quickly pressed the boot toggle at the back of the keyboard, while simultaneously hitting the Undergraduate over the head with a thick Interlisp Manual. The Undergraduate was then Enlightened.

 

[SonOfLaertes]

Oh I got plenty of those too. Shall I toss pearls among swine? Shall I scatter seeds on the desert sand?

Yes, yes, exactly. Please do. You can insult us all you want as you toss and scatter, as long as you toss and scatter something. We will then be able to initiate an actual "face-to-face" dialogue, and my time will not have been wasted.

I formally request these pearls and seeds. You should realize that thats sort of the point of most of the replies to your OP.

Ready? Begin.

 

[SonOfLaertes]

I get it! I finally get it! It took being sent to Limbo('s ignore list) to finally reach the epiphany. Oh my goodness, it's so beautiful! It makes so much more sense now! I have to explain it to you, it's so mighty and powerful!

Here it is: Limbo lives in a version of Matrix or possibly Discworld. I know it doesn't make much sense at first but hear me out.

If it's the matrix (which I like to call psychosomatrix) it all makes sense, since, you know, it's not the reality that changes but your perception of it and your perception of reality shapes the reality itself. There's no spoon, indeed, and Limbo is The One!

Or, alternatively, there really is spoon, and fork, and certainly a knife and dishes, else we wouldn't have a kitchen and place where to be. In that case, Limbo is some kind of wizard. And, as Sir Terry Pratchett so eloquently put it in his "Science of Discworld, the Globe", wizards first evolved the wish then designed a command. And it works, because its Discworld.

On Roundworld, the wizards had to observe the reality and find how it works, not to change the laws of physics by mere thought. And since we live in this reality, the only explanation is that Limbo has found a way to manipulate matter with his own thoughts, thus making him Avatar of the very God. And that is testable hypothesis, so just test it and give the man Million Dollars right now!

No, sorry, you've got the metaphor all wrong.

Think more in terms of a gentleman in a booth tucked in the corner, anxiously diverting the attention of his audience away from all the dials, bells and whistles behind the booth's curtain. Determined to cloak his otherwise mundane presence in pyrotechnic grandeur, the wizard thunders and bellows his magnificence ...



On the internet, the wizard need not worry about little Toto, as long as he himself stays safely behind the curtain.

 

[clown]

No, sorry, you've got the metaphor all wrong.

Think more in terms of a gentleman in a booth tucked in the corner, anxiously diverting the attention of his audience away from all the dials, bells and whistles behind the booth's curtain. Determined to cloak his otherwise mundane presence in pyrotechnic grandeur, the wizard thunders and bellows his magnificence ...



On the internet, the wizard need not worry about little Toto, as long as he himself stays safely behind the curtain.

Dang it, I forgot a single smiley in the above post you quoted. Will remedy it immediately.

ETA: Done! Hope my sarcasm is clear now...

 

[AkuManiMani]

Then say self. It's easy, "self" See?

The real point of contention would be the exact nature of a "self"... >_>

 

[Limbo]

That doesn't answer my question.

Lets review your question. You asked me, "what privileges how things seem to you over how things seem to me?"

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understanding them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours. Sorry, try not to take that as a criticism. I'm not flaunting, I'm trying to help you to open your eyes. I can't do it for you.

It seems to me that you need a computer and a telecommunications network to communicate this to me. Which seems to me to give my paradigm more validity than yours. What can you offer by way of evidence that you are tapping in to how reality really is?

Ugh. What sharp thinking you have there. I guess I'll just let your computer and your telecommunications try to help you to open your eyes, all on their own. I'm sure they will guide you well. Just remember, you'll need a mind in order to grok their paradigm. Oh, er wait. So will your computer. Huh. Quite a conundrum you have there, good luck.

 

[SonOfLaertes]

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understand them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours. Sorry, try not to take that as a criticism. I'm not flaunting, I'm trying to help you to open your eyes.

Ah, but you are flaunting, by definition. You did not answer the question - you simply stated that you have a superior ability to answer the question. Again.

Please stop stating that you can toss pearls, and begin tossing the pearls, please.

 

[Chucky]

150+ posts in this thread with no substance provided by the OP other than links to bodies of work which have been discussed in a much more productive manner elsewhere. The OP makes claims which are directly contradicted by self-aggrandizing chest-beating and then, curiously, pouting.

To say this thread lacks any substantive content is an understatement. It is sucking up reply time from other threads which have interesting and informative byplay.

Apparently, enlightenment breeds pettiness. Who would of thought? I would have expected pearls of wisdom and sublime teaching moments, but what do I know?

I know, I know, if that's the case why am I wasting my time wading through all the snarkiness? It's like an accident scene you just can't look away from. I find myself moving on to the next post in case Limbo actually brings something substantive to the table.

I've tried meeting Limbo at least halfway where he asked for

anyone would like to discuss the skeleton key to mystical interpretation, let me know. It is a matter of philosophical and religious concern, after all. And this is the forum for that.

I asked why do I need mysticism, what is the point of it? If I understand what it is about it that Limbo finds important, then this would illuminate the need for a skeleton key in the first place. I thought it was a fair question to ask. The only response I got are a couple of sentences that essentially state that it befuddles fundamentalists.

Following that line of reason I asked if the point is that mysticism serves as a disruptive force as, so far, that's all I've been given to go on from Limbo's response. It hasn't turned into much of a discussion yet.

 

[SonOfLaertes]

I've tried meeting Limbo at least halfway where he asked for

I asked why do I need mysticism, what is the point of it? If I understand what it is about it that Limbo finds important, then this would illuminate the need for a skeleton key in the first place. I thought it was a fair question to ask. The only response I got are a couple of sentences that essentially state that it befuddles fundamentalists.

Following that line of reason I asked if the point is that mysticism serves as a disruptive force as, so far, that's all I've been given to go on from Limbo's response. It hasn't turned into much of a discussion yet.

Understood. I am simply trying to prod Limbo into responding honestly to the questions you and others have asked. As the thread moves on, though, evidence of Troll builds.

Grandiose claims? Check.
Slithering away from attempts to force meaningful discussion of those claims? Check.
Attempts to blame the lack of substance on others? Check.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Or is it more open to interpretation, and all the inconsistent observations we find between his account and the many other spiritualists merely a result of that?

Now, that's an interesting idea. Limbo claims to have got to the state he's in by comparing different mythologies. Other people have compared different mythologies and come to their own conclusions. So what would happen were we to compare the mythologies of those who have compared other mythologies? A sort of comparative comparative mythologies mythologies? A meta-analysis. We'd be bound to discover the truth then, and our mystical powers would be more powerful than his mystical powers.

 

[D'rok]

Lets review your question. You asked me, "what privileges how things seem to you over how things seem to me?"

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understanding them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours. Sorry, try not to take that as a criticism. I'm not flaunting, I'm trying to help you to open your eyes. I can't do it for you.

No. You are avoiding the question. You have nothing that shows why your version of reality is true and mine is false. You are simply staking ground and claiming victory. Your perspective is not superior merely because you have it and have invested much effort into it. Your perspective would be superior if it was more in accord with the actual state of affairs of the universe than mine is.

You have given nothing but your personal insistence that shows this is the case.

Ugh. What sharp thinking you have there. I guess I'll just let your computer and your telecommunications try to help you to open your eyes, all on their own. I'm sure they will guide you well. Just remember, you'll need a mind in order to grok their paradigm. Oh, er wait. So will your computer. Huh. Quite a conundrum you have there, good luck.

And now we're back to petty bickering and condescension. Great. When you can "grok" yourself some tangible results (like a computer or a telecommunications network) out of the ass where you keep your woo, then you will have something to wave in my face.

Until then, reality wins.

 

[Zanders]

It could easily be tested empirically. You're supposed to be able to gather information from the collective unconscious. Whatever question you have, it can be answered by consulting the collective unconscious. So have one person write something down, seal it in an envelope, then have someone else who has had no direct contact with that person consult the collective unconscious ask what it is that's written on that bit of paper.

Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

Yes, I would really appreciate seeing a modern study and test of it instead of an old (it's not bad because it's old) theory book. With Darwin's "origin of species", it has had further evidence and research done to fine tune, elaborate on and confirm the original theory. I would like to see if there has been something similar done with the "collective unconsciousness". It would be easy to do.

Until then it's really more of a hypothesis than a theory.

And Limbo, no offense but your recent posts seem a bit egotistical. Something that I wouldn't expect from somebody of your beleifs.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Yes, I would really appreciate seeing a modern study and test of it instead of an old (it's not bad because it's old) theory book. With Darwin's "origin of species", it has had further evidence and research done to fine tune, elaborate on and confirm the original theory. I would like to see if there has been something similar done with the "collective unconsciousness". It would be easy to do.

I don't think it has been done. I can't find any reference to anyone testing it ever.

Until then it's really more of a hypothesis than a theory.

It's not even a hypothesis in the scientific sense.

 

[dafydd]

Lets review your question. You asked me, "what privileges how things seem to you over how things seem to me?"

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understanding them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours. Sorry, try not to take that as a criticism. I'm not flaunting, I'm trying to help you to open your eyes. I can't do it for you.




Ugh. What sharp thinking you have there. I guess I'll just let your computer and your telecommunications try to help you to open your eyes, all on their own. I'm sure they will guide you well. Just remember, you'll need a mind in order to grok their paradigm. Oh, er wait. So will your computer. Huh. Quite a conundrum you have there, good luck.

It must feel great to know everything.

 

[PixyMisa]

Lets review your question. You asked me, "what privileges how things seem to you over how things seem to me?"

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understanding them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours.

And completely disconnected from reality.

Sorry, try not to take that as a criticism. I'm not flaunting, I'm trying to help you to open your eyes. I can't do it for you.

Yes, you're trying to help open our eyes, but before that you're trying to get us to live our lives head down in a barrel of chicken poop.

Ugh. What sharp thinking you have there. I guess I'll just let your computer and your telecommunications try to help you to open your eyes, all on their own.

They have done so wonderfully, for hundreds of millions of people.

I'm sure they will guide you well.

They have.

Just remember, you'll need a mind in order to grok their paradigm.

Got one, thanks.

Oh, er wait. So will your computer.

No.

 

[Nonpareil]

What privileges how things seem to me over how things seem to you, are my mystical experiences and my expertise in the fields of study that are the most important ones to understanding them. That gives me a perspective that is wider and deeper than yours.

You haven't even established that there is a legitimate field of study to be an expert in, let alone that you are an expert in it.

Try again.

 

[Resume]

Since I am on ignore, could someone who is not please ask Limbo exactly what material utiltity any of this . . . stuff he espouses might have to assist humankind?

 

[Zanders]

Since I am on ignore, could someone who is not please ask Limbo exactly what material utiltity any of this . . . stuff he espouses might have to assist humankind?

Well, I assume he believes that it would alleviate you from the suffering of everyday life to achieve enlightenment and return to the source.

 

[tsig]

Well, I assume he believes that it would alleviate you from the suffering of everyday life to achieve enlightenment and return to the source.

So if I'm not suffering in everyday life I've achieved enlightenment?

Now that I know the secrets of the Universie I feel incredibly exhalted I'd tell you the secret but you must grovel first.

OK here it is:

_{Never buy a pig in a poke.}