The powerlessness of prayer

[six7s]

The definition of God is the infinite mind. He has to be to make everything exist, all at the same time. He does it on a spiritual level so that it is the universe and not an alternate universe that we might imagine for ourselves. I think there needs to be one that is persistent, that others can be a branch of. Without pure spirit, all you get is a fragmentary and temporary universe.

So in other words, critical thinking is something that other people do.

 

[Ethnikos]

Fascinating reply....

However, it seems you overlooked one point:

• Please, describe and explain the benefits of being spiritually undead

Revelation 12: 17, "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Revelation 19: 10 "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
These are a couple of verses that speak on that question. People who pray in a way that raises their spiritual consciousness, and believe in God and His Servant, become prophets.

 

[six7s]

It seems we are speaking a different language

define

explain

benefit

 

[Ethnikos]

So in other words, critical thinking is something that other people do.

Not exactly. That is involved to a certain extent. What happens is that once you have accumulated the normally observable evidence, (That takes reading an study and learning from others, as in the verse above about "Brethren") and once you have gone as far as possible with your material mind, then you take a step into the spirit realm. The belief thing is what you need in order to be learning things that will be used for good. If you were unprotected, you would be susceptible to the tricks of the evil spirits.
God has a purpose and He wants to move things so that they contribute to the fulfillment of that purpose. We need to be in tune with the bringing about of good things and not some sort of selfish motives that are useless and will wither away, and us with them.

 

[Ethnikos]

It seems we are speaking a different language

Life vs. death.
If you are spiritually dead now, you do not survive the annihilation of the material, when that comes.
The verse above says, "the remnant". Those are the survivors.

 

[six7s]

The belief thing is what you need in order to be learning things that will be used for good.

Bollocks

To learn, all you need is the capacity to think

Belief is what you need use to fill in the void that is your worldview

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

The definition of God is the infinite mind. He has to be to make everything exist, all at the same time. He does it on a spiritual level so that it is the universe and not an alternate universe that we might imagine for ourselves. I think there needs to be one that is persistent, that others can be a branch of. Without pure spirit, all you get is a fragmentary and temporary universe.

I don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about

Here's a friendly suggestion: Study a little bit about how the Universe came to place. It's a vast, complex, fascinating subject that takes a lot of time to digest
My suggestion: Carl Sagan's Cosmos. It's very interactive and easy to follow

 

[six7s]

Life vs. death.
If you are spiritually dead now, you do not survive the annihilation of the material, when that comes.

Fine. I have no problem with dying

The verse above says, "the remnant". Those are the survivors.

The verse above is nonsense

 

[Ethnikos]

Bollocks

To learn, all you need is the capacity to think

Belief is what you need use to fill in the void that is your worldview

What I mean is that is what you need to not learn evil things from bad spirits, who are always ready to promote things that are destructive to Man.

A void. So I have this puny view of the world. It was nice, it went bad, it will be destroyed and replaced with one better. Those who can survive the destruction of this one will be allowed to live in the new one. Yes, that is a lack of a world view.

 

[six7s]

What I mean is that is what you need to not learn evil things from bad spirits, who are always ready to promote things that are destructive to Man.

If you had ANY evidence of "bad spirits", you might have at least a shred of credibility

A void. So I have this puny view of the world. It was nice, it went bad, it will be destroyed and replaced with one better. Those who can survive the destruction of this one will be allowed to live in the new one. Yes, that is a lack of a world view.

No

That is what's known as a delusion

 

[Ethnikos]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about

Here's a friendly suggestion: Study a little bit about how the Universe came to place. It's a vast, complex, fascinating subject that takes a lot of time to digest
My suggestion: Carl Sagan's Cosmos. It's very interactive and easy to follow

What I am talking about is what some "spiritual" people talk about creating your own reality.
There is something to this, but there is a problem, or a few problems, with this view. It requires a harmony with God. The universe was created to be manipulatable. We were created in God's image, which meant we would be able to at some time to be a god within our own world. Some people recognize this, but they miss that we can not because we are spiritually stunted and out of harmony with God.

 

[six7s]

What I am talking about is what some "spiritual" people talk about creating your own reality.

And this thread is about 'The powerlessness of prayer'

Either piss, or get off the pot

There is something to this, but there is a problem, or a few problems, with this view.

Yeah... its circuitous illogic based on superstitious nonsense

 

[Ethnikos]

Fine. I have no problem with dying

Everyone dies. So it might be good to not let it ruin your lfe being obsesed by it.
What some people hope for is an after-life.

The verse above is nonsense

It is the same old thing from way back at the Garden and the serpent. The serpent did not lie to Eve because he loved them. He hated them and wanted them to die so he could become a god himself, in our absence.

 

[six7s]

Everyone dies. So it might be good to not let it ruin your lfe being obsesed by it.
What some people hope for is an after-life.

And some people hope to win the lottery

Only difference is that, despite seemingly overwhelming odds, we have unambiguous evidence that shows the lottery does have winners

So far, despite cultures around the world striving for thousands of years to find truth in the sky, all gods and attendant rituals appear to be based on nothing more than myths

It is the same old thing from way back at the Garden and the serpent. The serpent did not lie to Eve because he loved them. He hated them and wanted them to die so he could become a god himself, in our absence.

When you summon the talking snake in defense of your argument, you know you're on a hiding to nothing

Good bye

 

[Ethnikos]

If you had ANY evidence of "bad spirits", you might have at least a shred of credibility

I brought up some personal experiences with them, earlier in this thread. But I suppose that is not admissible evidince. I watched one pick up my friend and throw him in a fire. I watched five come up out the floor and pulled me down through it. I have seen them or have seen their invisible hand at work. I have seen it take over a few people that I knew and kill them, or literaly have them do things that caused their deaths.

No
That is what's known as a delusion

I am sure it sounds delusional if you have not been to those places or told things that can not be explained properly to those who have not.
I do see your point because this stuff sounds like a couple of Led Zeppelin songs.

 

[paximperium]

I brought up some personal experiences with them, earlier in this thread. But I suppose that is not admissible evidince. I watched one pick up my friend and throw him in a fire. I watched five come up out the floor and pulled me down through it. I have seen them or have seen their invisible hand at work. I have seen it take over a few people that I knew and kill them, or literaly have them do things that caused their deaths.

Simple question. I can easily agree that you may have experienced these events. The question is why should anyone believe your conclusion?
Were you on drugs? Dreaming? Mistaken? Insane?

Why should anyone believe YOUR unverified claims that goes against all that is known about reality?

 

[Ethnikos]

Simple question. I can easily agree that you may have experienced these events. The question is why should anyone believe your conclusion?
Were you on drugs? Dreaming? Mistaken? Insane?

One of our friends is certified full blooded Native American and had a Federal license to collect peyote for ceremonial uses. My friend, that I was with, thought he was being cool and did the cleansing and stuff but neglected the spiritual cleansing. The spirit of the Old Chief came down from the huge rock where his spirit dwells and punished my friend for not being pure of heart. So he was high on a large quantity of hallucinogenic plant. I was totally straight and wanted nothing to do with taking it. I just touched it and knew it was not for me.

The thing with the spirits coming out of the floor was when I was in the hospital for two months and was number on on the death-watch list and had my bed where the nurses could see me from their station. So these things took me to Hell with no intention of taking me back. They laughed as they drug me off and said, "we have been waiting a long time for you to be so weak!"
So what is my conclusion? Pray, not just to ask for things but to pray continuously because you do not even know what danger you are in.

Why should anyone believe YOUR unverified claims that goes against all that is known about reality?

I don't even know why I am alive. I am shocked to be here. I seriously should not be, and that does something to people. It makes you wonder and you have to believe in something more powerful than yourself.
It was the strangest thing that people would come over to my room and sit there and would be crying when they left. I still think it is odd. It was, I think, that I seemed really happy somehow and it affected people in a strange way.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Why should anyone believe YOUR unverified claims that goes against all that is known about reality?

And, very often, the unverified claims of others as well.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

What I am talking about is what some "spiritual" people talk about creating your own reality.
There is something to this, but there is a problem, or a few problems, with this view. It requires a harmony with God. The universe was created to be manipulatable. We were created in God's image, which meant we would be able to at some time to be a god within our own world. Some people recognize this, but they miss that we can not because we are spiritually stunted and out of harmony with God.

I will ask again: But what if not?
What if there happened to be no God?

 

[fromdownunder]

I watched five come up out the floor and pulled me down through it.

I have actually seen that one myself. I felt really sorry for Tony Goldwyn.

Norm