The Osama DNA thread

[triforcharity]

Quite right, I am not used to using these Ameriguncan units.

So 6 feet 4 inches.

6.4 meters is 20 feet, 11.94 inches. So not, not quite right at all.

Yes, 6'4" is right, or about 2 meters.

I am guessing you are like the rest of the Illuminati here, you think this whole "death of Osama" is just one more big joke?

No, I don't think that the death of the most wanted man in recent history, possibly ever, is a joke. In fact, I think it's a reason to party! Will you be RSVPing?

 

[VonKleist]

So where and when was OBL DNA tested, that is all I ask.

OBL's DNA was tested in September.

OBL's DNA was not tested at all.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

Quite right, I am not used to using these Amerigun units.

So 6 feet 4 inches. I am guessing you are like the rest of the Illuminati here, you think this whole "death of Osama" is just one more big joke?

Oh come on, the illuminati is too busy planting hints of the imminent robot apocalypse in lady gaga videos to bother faking OBL's death.

 

[000063]

Quite right, I am not used to using these Amerigun units.

Either a passive-aggressive insult, or a Freudian slip.

So 6 feet 4 inches. I am guessing you are like the rest of the Illuminati here,

Good point. It's still light out, I should stop wasting power with this lamp.

you think this whole "death of Osama" is just one more big joke

Stereotypes, and irrelevant ones at that.

 

[little grey rabbit]

I heard on the radio that a BBC journalist to a vox pop of 50 people in an Abbottabad market and only 1 person thought they had killed bin Ladin - and he probably worked for the ISI.

Also people were saying they knew the old man in the photo and it wasn't bin Ladin.

Golly, the Illuminati just knowingly blast away an innocent old man - that surely can't be true....can it?

 

[little grey rabbit]

The FBI wash their hands of the Osama DNA test.


http://www.stripes.com/news/intel-shows-bin-laden-held-firm-control-1.142984

It is almost certain now that no DNA testing was done. The FBI have the responsibility of testing Afghani insurgents and are the nominated agency to deliver samples to in Bagram - I am unsure, but I think these samples are delivered to the US for testing.

If we are now talking about CIA and DoD we are talking about agencies that have no oversight - and almost certainly no overseas labs.

Here is a link to the full transcript of "Senior Intelligence Official [who refuses to be named]"

http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-w...cxntfid=blogs_jamie_dupree_washington_insider

Third, DNA [deoxyribonucleic acid] analysis conducted separately by Department of Defense and CIA labs has positively identified Osama bin Laden. DNA samples collected from his body were compared to a comprehensive DNA profile derived from bin Laden’s large extended family. Based on that analysis, the DNA is unquestionably his. The possibility of a mistaken identity on the basis of this analysis is approximately one in 11.8 quadrillion. (Laughter.) I’ll let you count the zeroes. (Laughter.)

The laughter should be that some idiot doesn't know the difference between relationship testing odds and exact identity matching odds.

As I said, FBI is responsible for testing at Bagram - and I think they fly all samples state side.
DoD certainly has genotyping labs in the States - but that is too far away to explain the immediately annoucement of DNA verification.

Then the SIO (Senior Intelligence Official) just goes through a whole lot of outtakes of Osama videos - hardly surprising they have them. One of the funniest things in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq was Colin Powell announcing Al Jazeera had an Osama vidoe before they actually received it.

February 12, 2003

On February 12, 2003, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell told a Senate panel that he had reviewed a transcript of a message from bin Laden stating he was in “partnership with Iraq" which was to be broadcast on al Jazeera. Al Jazeera initially denied having the tape, but subsequently located it.

 

[little grey rabbit]

BBC report which shows an Abbottabad man identifying the old man in the photo as his neighbour Akbar Khan, who owned the house.

 

[000063]

As I said, FBI is responsible for testing at Bagram - and I think they fly all samples state side.

Guess what? The claim that you refused to research because it could bring your delusions down like a house of cards is wrong! Specifically: the US tested Osama overseas and had the results transmitted to Washington, plus a sample is being flown back to the US. This took me a few seconds on Wikipedia to find.

 

[ComfySlippers]

Slightly OT, and not wanting to dismiss your stellar research into the great cover-ups in history, but ...

May 1844 aerial photo of Birkenau - enlarged by CIA

I'll leave that with you.

http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/the-one-true-crematorium-at-birkenau/

 

[000063]

BBC report which shows an Abbottabad man identifying the old man in the photo as his neighbour Akbar Khan, who owned the house.

Which indicates that the guy he saw in the garden was the owner of the house.

 

[dafydd]

I heard on the radio that a BBC journalist to a vox pop of 50 people in an Abbottabad market and only 1 person thought they had killed bin Ladin - and he probably worked for the ISI.

Also people were saying they knew the old man in the photo and it wasn't bin Ladin.

Golly, the Illuminati just knowingly blast away an innocent old man - that surely can't be true....can it?

No,it isn't true. Well spotted. Hava Nagila!

 

[triforcharity]

BBC report which shows an Abbottabad man identifying the old man in the photo as his neighbour Akbar Khan, who owned the house.

It's too bad that Pakistan and the US have identified the owners of record of the house as the two courior brothers.

Who, BTW, seemed to have no means of purchasing or building a house that size.

Not to mention, could it be possible that the guy lied about his name?

Nah, terrorists always go by their real name, and are completly honest 100% of the time.......

 

[little grey rabbit]

Just for the record of if there is a genotyping facility at Bagram or not

this is a Standard Operating Procedure from at earliest 2007.
http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/natsec/bagram20100514/15bagramcentcom_227-233.pdf

It details a range of biometric recordings to be done on captured insurgents, including collecting DNA samples.

As far as I can tell it is not specific on where testing takes place, however it does say the sample should be

(2) (U) The evidence along with the chain of custody document will then be transferred
to the BTIF for subsequent transfer to the designated FBI representative at Bagram Airfield.

This suggests that samples are flown back to the US and tested by the FBI - and this would make sense if you are only getting around 20-50 samples a week (it would be very expensive per sample). In anycase it suggests that should there be a genotyping facility at Bagram it would be run by the FBI.

And as we have seen above the FBI have washed their hands of the Osama DNA test.

 

[triforcharity]

Or, maybe they brought one on board the USS Carl Vinson for this purpose? Or maybe they flew the sample back on an F-18 so as to get it here very quickly.

I mean, there could be other options, if you open your mind and think outside of the conspiracy bubble for a minute or two.

 

[McHrozni]

It is exclusively the DNA genotyping, location, timeline and relatives used for comparisions

Why would you want to know that? It's not like you know how DNA genotyping is done, or how to interpret the results

McHrozni

 

[little grey rabbit]

Why would you want to know that? It's not like you know how DNA genotyping is done, or how to interpret the results

McHrozni

good trolling. I am not asking for the results or raw data to be released BTW. I think there is good security reasons and privacy reasons why the actual genotypes should be kept confidential. All I want is a one or two sentence of the methodology, the comparisions, the timeline and the location.

Because at the moment, the so-called "release of DNA testing" is nothing more than some CIA official saying we have done DNA testing and we are quadrillion per cent certain.

But I digress, I just wanted to link to a rather entertaining article by Alexander Cockburn that discusses the various stories surrounding the pictures

But now the former professor of constitutional law is really and truly an American. He’s flashed his long, long Cadillac of a birth certificate, not merely the unconvincing shorty going the rounds for years. Better still, he has cojones. Bigger cojones than those of George Bush, who said that the capture of Osama was of no interest to him. Obama didn’t task the Navy SEALs: “if Osama shows no sign of resistance, it is your duty under Rules of Engagement to bring him home alive to face a fair trial.” No. He said “Make sure it’s Osama, then kill him.”

We have Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma to thank for making Osama’s orders clear. In an interview with CNN’s Eliot Spitzer he described the photographs, thus far denied the American people but available to members of Congress.
Inhofe:

“Three of the first 12 pictures were of Osama when he was alive. And they did this for the purpose of being able to look at those and seeing the nose, the eyes and his relationship for positive identification purposes. And that was good.

“One of the shots went through an ear and out through the eye socket, or it went in through the eye socket and out - and then exploded. It was that kind of ordinance that it was. Now that caused the brains to be hanging out of the eye socket, so that was pretty gruesome.

“But the revealing shots really, I thought, the pictures, were the three that were taken on the USS Vinson in the Northern Arabian Sea, and they were the ones that showed him during the cleanup period…they had taken enough blood and material off his face so it was easier to identify who it was.”

So the SEALs grabbed Osama, took the live pics, then shoved his kid to one side and gave him the business, twice in the head, once in the chest. Mind you, Inhofe seems to be varying his account of the photos somewhat. In a Fox interview he apparently says that the three photos of Osama alive were old ones, thus denying the brusque live/dead sequence implied by Inhofe to CNN's Spitzer, whose remarks in the transcript cited above seem to be entirely clear -- particularly with the phrase “And they did this…” I’ve called Inhofe’s office, with no response yet forthcoming “due to high volume of calls” – no doubt from George Monbiot trying to forge an alliance with Big Jim from Oklahoma for expanded nuclear power. If old photos, then how old? Also, if the SEAL's helmet camera was working, there would have been live/dead images in sequence anyway.

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn05132011.html

So did the SEALs actually pin poor old Akhbar Khan down to take live photos of him before blowing his head off?

Bleaaagh!

 

[McHrozni]

good trolling. I am not asking for the results or raw data to be released BTW. I think there is good security reasons and privacy reasons why the actual genotypes should be kept confidential.

A couple of problems here. Number one: you can't verify anything without raw data. The only way to verify CIA did indeed profile Osama would be to obtain their profile and match it against indenpendently obtained profile from him, or from several indenpendently obtained profiles from his relatives. I'll take their word for it, though.

All I want is a one or two sentence of the methodology, the comparisions, the timeline and the location.

Methodology was either STR or VNTR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_tandem_repeat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VNTR

Either would be suitable. VNTR can probably be made on any aircraft carrier with only a small amount of quite inexpensive equipment. Both could be done in 12 hours. I suspect you know now exactly as much as you did before you asked.

Because at the moment, the so-called "release of DNA testing" is nothing more than some CIA official saying we have done DNA testing and we are quadrillion per cent certain.

If they released his full profile, you could just say they made up a plausible match from looking at the profiles of his relatives. This can be done even more quickly than a DNA match. What exactly do you think would releasing those details show?

McHrozni

 

[little grey rabbit]

McHrnozni, I can assure you I can talk tech on these matters far better than you.

A couple of problems here. Number one: you can't verify anything without raw data.

You seemed to misunderstood what I was saying I didn't need, I wasn't talking about the chromatograph traces. I meant there was no need to release the actual genotypes of each loci, since this would have privacy implications.

Methodology was either STR or VNTR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_tandem_repeat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VNTR

Either would be suitable. VNTR can probably be made on any aircraft carrier with only a small amount of quite inexpensive equipment.

Well here is your first howler as STR are is just a subset of VNTR. STR is the new terminology for microsatellite. In terms of genotyping efficiency the differences are trivial and I would expect that the FBI would just be using standard commercial kits that would mostly contain STR loci, although perhaps they might include SSRs. There is no difference in equipment or reagents, the only difference would be the primer chosen.

While the equipment is not madly expensive (ie a few hundred thousands), it is not normally or ever deployed in a mobile deployment (although there are some technologies in prototype that could be - however firms involved have denied any involvement saying it is too early to be testing in the field and certainly not in such an operation).

One of the issues that makes an aircraft deployment unlikely is the fact that capillary electrophoresis is (or used to be anyway) quite sensitive to level and vibration. Choose a selection of links from the ABI site to satisfy your curiosity on this matter
http://www.google.com.au/search?cli...equencer+vibrations&pbx=1&fp=6ed37e06fcb306d6

I am not sure how much buffeting or vibration an aircraft carrier today gets and if that would interfer. In any case I am confident, given the long period since the Carl Vinson has been state side, they did not fly an ABI 3000 series out there.

Both could be done in 12 hours.

Probably a bit less, but the samples have to reach a genotyping facility first. If it wasn't Bagram it would almost certainly be the US. Which means the results were annouced before the test were completed. In fact a successful DNA match was announced much sooner than 12 hours from leaving Abbottabad.

I suspect you know now exactly as much as you did before you asked.

Yes, but I do appreciate your hamfisted attempt at trolling.

To show the sort of detail in regards to genotyping I would like to know what kit was used.
Eg. an ABI Identifiler kit using the following markers
15 STR loci (CSF1P0, D2S1338, D3S1358, D5S818, D7S820, D8S1179, D13S317, D16S539, D18S51, D19S433, D21S11, FGA, TH01, TPOX, vWA)

or a Promega PowerPlex 16 kit using
sixteen loci (fifteen STR loci and Amelogenin): Penta E, D18S51, D21S11, TH01, D3S1358, FGA, TPOX, D8S1179, vWA, Amelogenin, Penta D, CSF1PO, D16S539, D7S820, D13S317 and D5S818

Then you would want to know what relatives and the degree of relatedness (names not needed) and the number of markers shared.

However, in fact all I want is the head of a lab to speak up and say they genotyped it, when and where, and they stake their credibility on the results.

If DoD really did set up a genotyping facility on the Carl Vinson then I would like them to come out and say it. It would be the first time a genotyping facility would have be deployed in such a way for a one of genotyping.

 

[000063]

[words]

Weird, that last question seems to have mysteriously vanished. That's odd.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Weird, that last question seems to have mysteriously vanished. That's odd.

I didn't think it was of particular interest. It is of course easy enough to fake a series of DNA profiles. It might be harder to fake a genotyping facility. However, why bother to fake anything when a senior government official can just say "we did it and in super-record time too" and everyone is too afraid to ask questions.

It point of fact I don't believe they faked a genotype test, I don't believe that bothered genotyping poor Akbar Khan at all.