The Oldest Religious Structures & Ancient Aliens?

[dafydd]

I don't think they are going to bring ore with them?
We would do the same on another planet heck even the moon, there has to be something there to work with to begin with.

If that's the best you can do,don't bother.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I don't think they are going to bring ore with them?
We would do the same on another planet heck even the moon, there has to be something there to work with to begin with.

We left a moon buggy and some other artefacts there that are clearly not lunar in origin. What did the ancient aliens leave here that could clearly not be terrestrial in origin?

 

[edge]

I remember reading that the climatology of the area affected the levels of game, the region, once lush dried out, the temple eventually abandoned completely, that has paralells with pyramids, up to a point they got more impressive, but then they went into decline as their value diminished in light of new religious practices. In this case, what effect would dwindling natural resources have on the skill shown in a religious construction built by a hunter gatherer culture ?

"bugger this" said the last priest of Gobekli Tepe "I'm moving with the times and am gonna try out this new fangled agriculture thing I keep hearing so much about"

Even if that's true do you think they stood around and decided to bury the place, or get more food?
Something major happened that buried it.

 

[MG1962]

I don't think they are going to bring ore with them?
We would do the same on another planet heck even the moon, there has to be something there to work with to begin with.

So how do you refine the ore to make the metal unless you bring the first generation of smelters with you. Why would they restrict themselves to using the same material the locals use. If they can cross interstellar, they certainly can locate local ore bodies

 

[Vortigern99]

Why do you say the level of skill had declined?
Artistic taste changes with time.

Allow me, if I may, to answer your question with a question, or rather a series of them.

Which, in your estimation, requires greater skill: To draw a single ovoid shape to represent the frontal view of the human face, and fill it with symbolic pictures of facial features which were developed by another artist prior to your time, and which you have been trained to emulate, regardless of the rules of perspective or the basic facts of human individuality...

... or to draw an accurate portrait of a real human face, with all its unique features and proportions, each with millimetric distinctions in their shape and position compared to other faces, in correct perspective with the background, and utilizing the technique of chiaroscuro to render light and shadow according to the reality before your eyes?

Please answer, and I'll respond in full, though surely you can see where this is headed.

 

[edge]

Along with Göbekli Tepe and Nevalı Çori there's also Çayönü,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayönü
another early community centre.
This is fascinating subject.
Apparently Çayönü shows the earliest known domestication of the pig and the cultivation of grain.
Almonds and pistachios, too.
They've even discovered the houses built so long ago by those early farmers.
No evidence of aliens, though.

edited to add-
Thanks, Marduk, for that dating!

That's settled, then.

So what are we talking here about 9,211, give or take?

 

[edge]

how's about this for solid orthodox dating techniques



In case you were wondering which scholars support this incredible discovery, run to the last sentence

back from the dead, yayay go gO GO Zombie Sitchen




nonono, that should be "there can be, only one",

if you're going to write sci fi all the time, at least try to keep your sci fi quotes correctly worded

I only wrote what I felt.
I do have a Japanese samurai sword though.

 

[edge]

So how do you refine the ore to make the metal unless you bring the first generation of smelters with you. Why would they restrict themselves to using the same material the locals use. If they can cross interstellar, they certainly can locate local ore bodies

The Idea is that there was a greater purpose besides mining but what ever it was it had to be cost effective.
Don't know, but it depends on how you see all this and if the true God is involved and what the legends are. If you leave God out then the reason goes somewhere else as in genetic acceleration.

It's what they said it was all about wherever there are recordings about these sites.
If you ask a local in Northern California why the aliens show up in that region they will tell you they are getting natural resources, or mining.

When they see, you’re shocked about it, they will say don’t be, it happens all the time.
The weird part about that area and the Mount Shasta area is…they are right to an extent, been there and seen that.

 

[edge]

Edge: There are, repeatedly, claims of the following sort:

1) Some ancient city or religious monument is far older than conventional archaeology says it should be.

No, actually, it's only some individual whack-jobs who assert this to be true.

2) There are ancient structures that could not have been erected except by modern technology.

This smacks of modern hubris: Those ignorant primitives couldn't possibly have done this. Actually, modern experiments have been done showing how monuments such as Stonehenge, for example, can be built using simple technology.
3) The scientists are trying to suppress this new evidence.

4) Sumerian civilization appeared suddenly, with no indication of anything transitional from the neolithic.

This seemed to be true until excavations in the 1980s revealed a whole series of archaeological strata showing a continuum of increasingly complex cultures from a typical neolithic stratum all the way up to the beginnings of Sumerian civilization proper.

I believe they aren’t to the bottom of the site yet.
400 tons would be difficult for any one to move let alone Stone Age peoples.

Stonehenge isn’t that big a deal.
There are other monuments that are.
Don’t know if it was quick for the Sumerians, seems to be, but what are they saying themselves?
Anyway it's fasinating that there are such extreams to explane it.

 

[Vortigern99]

What are you blathering about? I can't make heads or tails of it.

 

[MG1962]

What are you blathering about? I can't make heads or tails of it.

Thank you. I thought it was just me

 

[Vortigern99]

I doubt we're likely to get much clarification, but you never know, miracles do happen.

 

[bikerdruid]

Edge: There are, repeatedly, claims of the following sort:

1) Some ancient city or religious monument is far older than conventional archaeology says it should be.

No, actually, it's only some individual whack-jobs who assert this to be true.

2) There are ancient structures that could not have been erected except by modern technology.

This smacks of modern hubris: Those ignorant primitives couldn't possibly have done this. Actually, modern experiments have been done showing how monuments such as Stonehenge, for example, can be built using simple technology.
3) The scientists are trying to suppress this new evidence.

4) Sumerian civilization appeared suddenly, with no indication of anything transitional from the neolithic.

This seemed to be true until excavations in the 1980s revealed a whole series of archaeological strata showing a continuum of increasingly complex cultures from a typical neolithic stratum all the way up to the beginnings of Sumerian civilization proper.

I believe they aren’t to the bottom of the site yet.
400 tons would be difficult for any one to move let alone Stone Age peoples.

Stonehenge isn’t that big a deal.
There are other monuments that are.
Don’t know if it was quick for the Sumerians, seems to be, but what are they saying themselves?
Anyway it's fasinating that there are such extreams to explane it.

this post is incomprehensible.
have you taken to arguing with yourself?

 

[Vortigern99]

What I'd like to know is: What precisely about these various sites is indicative of alien involvement? The thread author keeps posting quotes describing the sites, which seem to my modestly-educated eye to be very reasonable, academic, archeological descriptions. Yet he bolds the ages of the sites as though we are to glean that their antiquity somehow proves that human beings couldn'a dunnit.

What am I missing that Edge is seeing? What insight does he have into the extraterrestrial mind that allows him to discern their influence over a Neolithic site, where others (scientists, myself, everyone else here) see only human ingenuity?

 

[Ladewig]

I don't think they are going to bring ore with them?

Stop being silly. No one has suggested that they should have brought ore with them. The question on the floor which you seem so intent on not answering is more along the lines of "why no steel?" Surely they could have built a small smelting facility and made steel instead of bronze. Hell they could have made chromium-vanadium steel or tungsten steel. How could they have not left a single solitary artifact showing an advanced civilization?

 

[Vortigern99]

Pfft. They're aliens. They can do anything they want! Including making artifacts, structures and indeed entire cities that for all intents and purposes appear to have been made by human hands employing the engineering methods and materials of the time. Incredible!!!!

 

[Hokulele]

If you ask a local in Northern California why the aliens show up in that region they will tell you they are getting natural resources, or mining.

No, the vast majority of people who live here will tell you the aliens show up here for day labor.

 

[!Kaggen]

So we don't go off topic in other threads.

Unexplained Structures
There are dozens of sites like this one around the world.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a443a7de28.jpg[/qimg]


This is the first one on the list.


Tepe (Turkish for "Potbelly Hill") is a hilltop sanctuary erected on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge some 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa / Edessa) in southeastern Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 9th millennium B.C. 11,000 years ago). Together with Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionized understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Göbekli Tepe is the oldest human-made place of worship yet discovered. Until excavations began, a complex on this scale was not thought possible for a community so ancient. The massive sequence of stratification layers suggests several millennia of activity, perhaps reaching back to the Mesolithic.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a449384fc2.jpg[/qimg]








http://www.gobeklitepe.info/who_how_why.html

This also proves that the Hebrews timeline was off and that a flood event happened arourd12,000 years ago like I said in another thread.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_22284e0a44c8a2eea.jpg[/qimg]








The question is how do we walk out of the stone age and build things like this without help, now remember before the flood event, timeline off or not, it is written in many cultures that the Gods came down to earth and it describes them as star people.
The Ancient Alien theorists will say that the angels and god are what the aliens were described as, because they didn't have a name that was as modern as what we have today and no other way of comparing what they witnessed.
Every culture on Earth has a story/myth about the deluge that happened back then and the timelines are about the same and makes the 12,000-year mark more feasible.
This time line is also when 35 species of the mega beasts, mammals, suddenly disappear.

This episode can cover more ground than I can quickly.

Ancient Aliens season 2 episode 8:
Full version

Those don't seem to want to work as imbedded, don't know why, they should?
Anybody?
Here's the link to the full episode this will work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKyO21BBETU

Its true these structures are not explained adequately by mainstream Archaeology however Prof. Lewis-Williams and D.G Pearce has proposed a rational theory that does not involve aliens or divine intervention.

Abstract:

An exploration of how brain structure and cultural content interacted in the Neolithic period 10,000 years ago to produce unique life patterns and belief systems.What do the headless figures found in the famous paintings at Çatalhoyuk in Turkey have in common with the monumental tombs at Newgrange and Knowth in Ireland? How can the concepts of "birth," "death," and "wild" cast light on the archaeological enigma of the domestication of cattle? What generated the revolutionary social change that ended the Upper Palaeolithic?David Lewis-Williams's previous book, The Mind in the Cave, dealt with the remarkable Upper Palaeolithic paintings, carvings, and engravings of western Europe. Here Dr. Lewis-Williams and David Pearce examine the intricate web of belief, myth, and society in the succeeding Neolithic period, arguably the most significant turning point in all human history, when agriculture became a way of life and the fractious society that we know today was born.The authors focus on two contrasting times and places: the beginnings in the Near East, with its mud-brick and stone houses each piled on top of the ruins of another, and western Europe, with its massive stone monuments more ancient than the Egyptian pyramids.They argue that neurological patterns hardwired into the brain help explain the art and society that Neolithic people produced. Drawing on the latest research, the authors skillfully link material on human consciousness, imagery, and religious concepts to propose provocative new theories about the causes of an ancient revolution in cosmology and the origins of social complexity. In doing so they create a fascinatingneurological bridge to the mysterious thought-lives of the past and reveal the essence of a momentous period in human history.

http://carta.anthropogeny.org/libra...thic-mind-consciousness-cosmos-and-realm-gods

 

[pakeha]

So what are we talking here about 9,211, give or take?

Well, edge, from your own OP

epe (Turkish for "Potbelly Hill") is a hilltop sanctuary erected on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge some 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa / Edessa) in southeastern Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 9th millennium B.C. 11,000 years ago). Together with Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionized understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Göbekli Tepe is the oldest human-made place of worship yet discovered. Until excavations began, a complex on this scale was not thought possible for a community so ancient. The massive sequence of stratification layers suggests several millennia of activity, perhaps reaching back to the Mesolithic.

Except, as I pointed out here,

Along with Göbekli Tepe and Nevalı Çori there's also Çayönü,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayönü
another early community centre.
This is fascinating subject.
Apparently Çayönü shows the earliest known domestication of the pig and the cultivation of grain.
Almonds and pistachios, too.
They've even discovered the houses built so long ago by those early farmers.
.

not hunter gatherers but the earliest farming communities.

Well, that sounds far fetched.
Unless food was so plentiful to get you're not going to have time to do that and build a monument.
Doesn't make sense, think about it, plus gather everything else like firewood, make weapons and all that goes with living like that.
Think about today in Africa, even where it is plentiful with those weapons?
I don't see it the more people working the more you need, plus water.

Yes, of course. That's why the idea is a no-starter. The earliest farming communities cover that period.

The Idea is that there was a greater purpose besides mining but what ever it was it had to be cost effective.
Don't know, but it depends on how you see all this and if the true God is involved and what the legends are. If you leave God out then the reason goes somewhere else as in genetic acceleration.
It's what they said it was all about wherever there are recordings about these sites.

So your idea is if there is no goddidit, then aliens?
And 'they' are the people who use 'psychics' to 'date' monuments'.

How long before edge uses crop circles as proof of alien visits to Earth?

 

[edge]

this post is incomprehensible.
have you taken to arguing with yourself?

The last two paragrafts are mine I forgot to seperate Tims' questions from my ansewers.

Edge: There are, repeatedly, claims of the following sort:

1) Some ancient city or religious monument is far older than conventional archaeology says it should be.

No, actually, it's only some individual whack-jobs who assert this to be true.

2) There are ancient structures that could not have been erected except by modern technology.

This smacks of modern hubris: Those ignorant primitives couldn't possibly have done this. Actually, modern experiments have been done showing how monuments such as Stonehenge, for example, can be built using simple technology.
3) The scientists are trying to suppress this new evidence.

4) Sumerian civilization appeared suddenly, with no indication of anything transitional from the neolithic.

This seemed to be true until excavations in the 1980s revealed a whole series of archaeological strata showing a continuum of increasingly complex cultures from a typical neolithic stratum all the way up to the beginnings of Sumerian civilization proper.

I believe they aren’t to the bottom of the site yet.
400 tons would be difficult for any one to move let alone Stone Age peoples.

Stonehenge isn’t that big a deal.
There are other monuments that are.
Don’t know if it was quick for the Sumerians, seems to be, but what are they saying themselves?
Anyway it's fasinating that there are such extreams to explane it.

Let me add this:
There are certain things that they could do and there are certain masonry things even we can't do, it's not just about standing obelisks.