The Oldest Religious Structures & Ancient Aliens?

[edge]

So we don't go off topic in other threads.

Unexplained Structures
There are dozens of sites like this one around the world.




This is the first one on the list.


Tepe (Turkish for "Potbelly Hill") is a hilltop sanctuary erected on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge some 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa / Edessa) in southeastern Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 9th millennium B.C. 11,000 years ago). Together with Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionized understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Göbekli Tepe is the oldest human-made place of worship yet discovered. Until excavations began, a complex on this scale was not thought possible for a community so ancient. The massive sequence of stratification layers suggests several millennia of activity, perhaps reaching back to the Mesolithic. [/quote]

At present, Göbekli Tepe raises more questions for archaeology and prehistory than it answers. We do not know how a force large enough to construct, augment, and maintain such a substantial complex was mobilized and paid or fed in the conditions of pre-Neolithic society. We cannot "read" the pictograms, and do not know for certain what meaning the animal reliefs had for visitors to the site; the variety of fauna depicted, from lions and boars to birds and insects, makes any single explanation problematic. As there seems to be little or no evidence of habitation, and the animals depicted on the stones are mainly predators, the stones may have been intended to stave off evils through some form of magic representation; it is also possible that they served as totems.[20] It is not known why more and more walls were added to the interiors while the sanctuary was in use, with the result that some of the engraved pillars were obscured from view. Burial may or may not have occurred at the site. The reason the complex was eventually buried remains unexplained. Until more evidence is gathered, it is difficult to deduce anything certain about the originating culture.

Around the beginning of the 8th millennium BC "Potbelly Hill" lost its importance. The advent of agriculture and animal husbandry brought new realities to human life in the area, and the "stone-age zoo" (as Schmidt calls it) depicted on the pillars apparently lost whatever significance it had had for the region's older, foraging, communities. But the complex was not simply abandoned and forgotten, to be gradually destroyed by the elements. Instead, it was deliberately buried under 300 to 500 cubic meters (390 to 650 cu yd) of soil.[15] Why this was done is unknown, but it preserved the monuments for posterity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

Those T-shaped pillars are 3 to 6 meters high in size, and weigh anything between 40 to 60 tones each. Even with today’s technology one would need very specialized equipment to move that stuff. In human terms it is roughly estimated that a minimum of 500 bodies might pull it off. But in a world of chaos and self-preservation how were these people organized, and by whom? Then again, it seems somehow they knew, and were coached to achieve this monumental task of transporting and sequencing these megaliths in specific order. There had to be quarrying experts, transport specialists, planners, ritual overseers etc. According to archeologists this kind of organization could have only existed in a society which already had established a solid system and a sound hierarchy.

http://www.gobeklitepe.info/who_how_why.html

This also proves that the Hebrews timeline was off and that a flood event happened arourd12,000 years ago like I said in another thread.










The question is how do we walk out of the stone age and build things like this without help, now remember before the flood event, timeline off or not, it is written in many cultures that the Gods came down to earth and it describes them as star people.
The Ancient Alien theorists will say that the angels and god are what the aliens were described as, because they didn't have a name that was as modern as what we have today and no other way of comparing what they witnessed.
Every culture on Earth has a story/myth about the deluge that happened back then and the timelines are about the same and makes the 12,000-year mark more feasible.
This time line is also when 35 species of the mega beasts, mammals, suddenly disappear.

This episode can cover more ground than I can quickly.

Ancient Aliens season 2 episode 8:
Full version

Those don't seem to want to work as imbedded, don't know why, they should?
Anybody?
Here's the link to the full episode this will work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKyO21BBETU

 

[Eternal]

To be honest, I think the question is more about what is more likely.

Rather than doing what humans have constantly done throughout history, and putting an unknown down to the supernatural or aliens etc, it's much more useful to consider the alternatives.

There is every possibility that it was either pure manpower, or that a little pocket of society had progressed sufficiently to construct such a complex construction. It could have been buried due to a change of allegiance in deity, or who knows what, maybe the week after construction there was an earthquake, and maybe this was interpreted as a sign that the relevant god/gods were unhappy with their efforts.

Personally, i think the idea that aliens may have assisted in the build process, whilst leaving no trace of any advanced materials, which if they were capable of the required travel you would think they would posses, is far less likely.

Maybe if upon examination a block was found to contain a steel lintel or the like, then we would be talking about advanced technology for the time. But I think the safe assumption, when something is constructed from available materials at the time, and could be constructed, even with high manpower figures, then that is the most likely answer.

Civilisations have come and gone, some very large, some very small. To presume we know the capabilities of any one at a given time is also presumptuous.

Another possibility: maybe this tribe/civilisation etc. managed to domesticate (in a very general sense) some of the friendlier local wildlife. I would think this may give a likelier explanation of the manpower needed. Who knows?

I would be prepared to bet large sums of money that there was no alien involvement whatsoever, and I would be dubious of a programme suggesting such.

 

[IMST]

Don't know much about the site. The line about all cultures having a flood myth isn't true. And how you're leaping from older than expected stuff exists to zOMG aliens! is a leap of logic I can't even fathom

 

[edge]

To be honest, I think the question is more about what is more likely.

Rather than doing what humans have constantly done throughout history, and putting an unknown down to the supernatural or aliens etc, it's much more useful to consider the alternatives.

There is every possibility that it was either pure manpower, or that a little pocket of society had progressed sufficiently to construct such a complex construction. It could have been buried due to a change of allegiance in deity, or who knows what, maybe the week after construction there was an earthquake, and maybe this was interpreted as a sign that the relevant god/gods were unhappy with their efforts.

Personally, i think the idea that aliens may have assisted in the build process, whilst leaving no trace of any advanced materials, which if they were capable of the required travel you would think they would posses, is far less likely.

Maybe if upon examination a block was found to contain a steel lintel or the like, then we would be talking about advanced technology for the time. But I think the safe assumption, when something is constructed from available materials at the time, and could be constructed, even with high manpower figures, then that is the most likely answer.

Civilisations have come and gone, some very large, some very small. To presume we know the capabilities of any one at a given time is also presumptuous.

Another possibility: maybe this tribe/civilisation etc. managed to domesticate (in a very general sense) some of the friendlier local wildlife. I would think this may give a likelier explanation of the manpower needed. Who knows?

I would be prepared to bet large sums of money that there was no alien involvement whatsoever, and I would be dubious of a programme suggesting such.

Puma Punku
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco

At the bottom of the page is a video.
This isn't the best picture but here



Yep the vidio shows the spots where they joined the blocks with metal clips.

 

[lionking]

Edge, how do you explain this settlement pre-dating the biblical creation of the earth?

 

[Travis]

That was put there by the Devil to test our faith. As is that nasty issue about the invention of writing predating creation as well.

 

[Eternal]

Edge, the video shows up as not available.

I didn't see anywhere in the article that anything was metal. I read about interlocking stones, and fine cuts.

This still begs the question of what is the more likely.

a) aliens came down to help with the building process, leaving no physical trace, or sign that they had done so.

b) a civilisation that we know little about were good stonemasons, and had managed to develop some rudimentary tools, e.g. some sort of hand boring/ drilling device (uniform holes) or had discovered a reasonably accurate way to measure them.

I would still put it down to people trying to explain the unknown by presuming something, which in comparison is outrageous, compared to lots of more likely and completely explainable phenomena.

Did you know the stars in the sky are put there purely for my enjoyment and to light my way at night? Now of course we know this isn't the case, but it would have been a completely rational explanation to the civilisation that believed it.

My point being, that just because we dont know the answer doesn't make it mystical or supernatural in any way. Maybe one day we will understand, maybe we won't, but everything we have learned up to this point has proven to not be mystical or supernatural, so therefore I think it's safe to assume that the current unknowns probably won't be either.

 

[edge]

Don't know much about the site. The line about all cultures having a flood myth isn't true. And how you're leaping from older than expected stuff exists to zOMG aliens! is a leap of logic I can't even fathom

I should have said most all, I’m sure some might not have.
The guys that did the series "Ancient Aliens" did a pretty good job.
The one guys hair do is pretty wild, reminds me of Einstein..

If you look at the evidence they collected it's not bad.
They are still rather atheistic about God, you could take it one step further and still have God involved, depends on how you look at the evidence.
Have at it enjoy, I have watched quit a few of their episodes.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Puma Punku
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco

At the bottom of the page is a video.
This isn't the best picture but here

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/22284e0a4ec18366a.jpg[/qimg]

Yep the vidio shows the spots where they joined the blocks with metal clips.

A) Metal != steel. It could also have been, and this is just wild god damn speculation, the same bronze alloy used to make all the other artifacts we've found from the culture.

B) It was erected between 400 and 600 AD. The Old World did already have steel at the time, albeit just the naturally occurring Damascus steel.

Please, before you post something from a site with "ancient," "mystery," or "aliens" in its url, look it up in wikipedia first and make sure the mysterious mystery is as mysterious as they myst it to you.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Yep the vidio shows the spots where they joined the blocks with metal clips.

Come on, Edge, the Pumapunku site has been dated AD 536–600, some eight and a half millennia after Tepe and it isn't even on the same continent. You're saying we should be astounded that people were working with metal just a few hundred years ago?

 

[Eternal]

As an atheist I see the existence of aliens less likely than the existence of god. I'm sure the reasons for their creation in the human mind are very similar, and therenwould be a lot more perceived evidence for god. But neither are provable, and in my opinion both about as likely as Santa Claus.

Not that I'm saying I believe there is no life anywhere else in space, like us it is quite conceivable that something somewhere has evolved, but the chances of this creature or creatures exhibiting such similarities and having the ability to cross space is pretty slim I would think.

 

[edge]

Edge, how do you explain this settlement pre-dating the biblical creation of the earth?

I have always said the timelines are off.
I find it pretty interesting.
If you take what they remembered and science the only evidence for a flood event of any proportions had to occur about 12,000- years ago.
I think the timelines that science relies on are slightly off too; if you add these two issues into consideration then we have what we have here at these sites.

 

[dafydd]

I have always said the timelines are off.

So the timelines are right. Thank you.

 

[edge]

Come on, Edge, the Pumapunku site has been dated AD 536–600, some eight and a half millennia after Tepe and it isn't even on the same continent. You're saying we should be astounded that people were working with metal just a few hundred years ago?

That is some of the estimates, some put it at 10,000 years ago and at that site are many other mysteries.

 

[Foster Zygote]

A) Metal != steel. It could also have been, and this is just wild god damn speculation, the same bronze alloy used to make all the other artifacts we've found from the culture.

Archaeologists say it's a copper-arsenic-nickel bronze alloy.

 

[Eternal]

A) Metal != steel. It could also have been, and this is just wild god damn speculation, the same bronze alloy used to make all the other artifacts we've found from the culture.

B) It was erected between 400 and 600 AD. The Old World did already have steel at the time, albeit just the naturally occurring Damascus steel.

Please, before you post something from a site with "ancient," "mystery," or "aliens" in its url, look it up in wikipedia first and make sure the mysterious mystery is as mysterious as they myst it to you.

I didn't say it wasn't there, I said that I didn't see a mention of it.

Thank you for the clarification. So the metal used was readily available at the time.

I would have researched it better, but was more offering a general rebuttal than anything else. I did not place enough importance on it to research it.

 

[edge]

As an atheist I see the existence of aliens less likely than the existence of god. I'm sure the reasons for their creation in the human mind are very similar, and therenwould be a lot more perceived evidence for god. But neither are provable, and in my opinion both about as likely as Santa Claus.

Not that I'm saying I believe there is no life anywhere else in space, like us it is quite conceivable that something somewhere has evolved, but the chances of this creature or creatures exhibiting such similarities and having the ability to cross space is pretty slim I would think.

Just because we don't have the tech doesn't mean it hasn't been discovered by others out there, even Einstein knew there was a way theoretically.
It is possible that at least three generations of stars have lived and died and life arose billions of years before we did around one of those earlier solar systems.
If they survived, or just one civilization survived, where and what could they do, it would look like their physics that they use, would appear to be magic to us?

 

[Eternal]

This is completely possible, as is the doctor who story line of them walking around amongst us, but us not remembering ever seeing them. Yet still the average person would dismiss it as unlikely.

The onus is not on the person who doesn't believe, it is on the proposer. I can tell you that fairies live in my garden, unless I provide evidence you should advise me to see a mental health nurse.

I have never come across one piece of evidence for this that can't either be explained, or has been shown to be outright fraud. Therefore I reject the likelihood of it's truth. I have found the same in religion.

 

[dafydd]

Just because we don't have the tech doesn't mean it hasn't been discovered by others out there, even Einstein knew there was a way theoretically.
It is possible that at least three generations of stars have lived and died and life arose billions of years before we did around one of those earlier solar systems.
If they survived, or just one civilization survived, where and what could they do, it would look like their physics that they use, would appear to be magic to us?

Do you know how many galaxies there are and how big the universe is? How did they find us?

 

[edge]

This is intresting.

Puma Punku is believed to have once contained a great wharf, and a massive four part structure. Yet all that remains today are megalithic ruins from some cataclysmic event in history. A great earthquake? A comet that came too close to the Earth? A worldwide flood? These are all possible causes to the destruction of the once great structure that is now the ruins of Puma Punku.

Not only is there evidence to support the claim of a cataclysmic flood, but there is even evidence to support the theory that people once lived there before such a flood even occurred. The suspected flood could have happened somewhere around 12,000 years ago, and there is scientific evidence of tools, bones, and other material within flood alluvia, which suggests that a civilized people were there prior to any flood

There are other ruins that are under the oceans that I'll cover later.
Something major happened back then and it's very interesting.
What I see is that people just don't make up myths when great importance is put behind them.
There has to be some validity to them even if it is slight.
No one worships Santa clause, it's too modern and we know what the correlations are just like the tooth fairy.
We know why these exist.
There are things that have evidence and solid structures to back them up with some sites radioactive still, where the gods of the time fought wars and the weapons were described.