• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Nautilus case

So at this point, his story is, "Yes, I dismembered the body, but her death was an accident", and his earlier story about her having been hit on the head by the hatch is shown to be a lie. At this point, he has no credibility whatsoever. Hang him (or imprison him or whatever it is that they do with murderers in Sweden).
 
So at this point, his story is, "Yes, I dismembered the body, but her death was an accident", and his earlier story about her having been hit on the head by the hatch is shown to be a lie. At this point, he has no credibility whatsoever. Hang him (or imprison him or whatever it is that they do with murderers in Sweden).

Before he is found guilty of anything?
 
So at this point, his story is, "Yes, I dismembered the body, but her death was an accident", and his earlier story about her having been hit on the head by the hatch is shown to be a lie. At this point, he has no credibility whatsoever. Hang him (or imprison him or whatever it is that they do with murderers in Sweden).
I think they ground them for a couple years or so.
 
So at this point, his story is, "Yes, I dismembered the body, but her death was an accident", and his earlier story about her having been hit on the head by the hatch is shown to be a lie. At this point, he has no credibility whatsoever. Hang him (or imprison him or whatever it is that they do with murderers in Sweden).
Denmark.
 
The victim Kim Wall was a Swedish journalist. The murderer Peter Madsen (yes, I know that he hasn't been convicted yet, but it is a clear-cut case, pun not intended) is Danish, and the crime took place in Øresund, the strait between Denmark and Sweden, probably south of Copenhagen (København) and Malmö. There are several photos of the two of them standing on the sail of the submarine after he picked her up in the Copenhagen harbour.
Kim Wall's dismembered torso drifted ashore on the island of Amager where it was found by a man walking his dog. In the following months, her arms and legs were found by divers - in Køge Bugt, I think.
Her fiancé recently told newspapers that he can't stop blaming himself for letting her go with Peter Madsen on her own in spite of being invited to come along for the ride.
The indictment (Business Insider, Jan. 24, 2018)
 
Last edited:
So at this point, his story is, "Yes, I dismembered the body, but her death was an accident", and his earlier story about her having been hit on the head by the hatch is shown to be a lie. At this point, he has no credibility whatsoever.

Maybe he'll take a leaf from someone else's book and blame an invisible friend called "Dave" for the murder.
 
Peter Madsen has told a number of lies from the very beginning. At first, he claimed that he had sailed her back to the harbour and let her off the submarine near the place where he had picked her up. Apparently he didn't know that security cameras were covering the area. When the torso drifted ashore, he claimed that he had buried her at sea, but hadn't dismembered her, and that her death was due to an accident (the hatch). Then arms, legs and head were recovered, wrapped in plastic and weighed down by steel rods, I think, and showing no signs of trauma from the hatch, so he now claims that she was killed by accidental carbon-monoxide poisoning, but then there are the stab wound to the genital area ...
And, of course, in the meantime the videos of beheadings of women have been discovered on his computer, but since other people had access to it, he claims that they must have been put there by somebody else. And then there are his visits to the fetish clubs ...

Suspecting him of being a serial killer, the police in Denmark, Sweden and Norway have been comparing his fingerprints and DNA with those of related unsolved crimes, but he doesn't seem to have been involved with those. Considering that he was well aware of a large number of witnesses seeing and even photographing him with her on the submarine in the Copenhagen harbour, it seems likely that he wasn't an 'experienced' serial killer.
I don't know if he assumed that his celebrity status would let him get away with it ...


A Danish writer of fiction made a stupid remark about Kim Wall in a recent interview. In spite of a very good beginning, it goes like this:

»Det er ALDRIG kvindens ansvar, om en mand beslutter sig for at forgribe sig på hende. Men når det er sagt, så … Altså når jeg ser billederne af offeret, måden, hun har ladet sig fotografere på, og det blik, hun sender kameraet … jeg er nødt til at være ærlig, for det er vores arbejde at være ærlige, og jeg kan ikke lade være med at tænke, at her er en pige, der søger fare. Her er en pige, der søger … usædvanlige situationer, en pige, der godt kan lide at sætte sig selv på spil, og en pige, som har meget frihed og frimodighed i sig. For det er jo altså … fuldstændig vanvittigt som kvinde at gå om bord i en ubåd med en mand, man ikke kender.«
Danskere dybt forbavsede over kendt forfatters udtalelse om Kim Wall: ’Det er meget forkert af mig’ (BT, Jan. 25, 2018)


My translation:
”The woman is NEVER responsible if a man decides to victimize her. But having said that, …. That is, when I see the photos of the victim, the way she has let herself be photographed and the look she sends to the camera … I have to be honest, because that is our profession, to be honest, and I can’t help thinking that this is a girl who is seeking danger. Here is a girl who seeks out unusual situations, a girl who likes to risk herself, and a girl who has so much freedom and boldness inside her. Because it is … totally crazy for a woman to board a submarine with a man she doesn’t know.”

To which a Danish comedian responded:

https://twitter.com/SanneSonder/status/956555662196133889
Når jeg ser Jens Christian Grøndahl, måden han har ladet sig citere i Femina, og det blik han sender kameraet... jeg kan ikke lade være at tænke, at her er en mand, der søger at blive lagt for had.
(Sanne Søndergaard, Twitter, Jan. 25, 2018)


My translation:
”When I see Jens Christian Grøndahl, the way he has let himself be quoted in Femina, and the look he sends to the camera … I can’t help thinking that here’s a man who wants people to hate him.”

Grøndahl victim blames Kim Wall (heartbeats.dk, Jan. 25, 2018)

In the meantime, he has apologized unconditionally for his remark, and actually seems to understand that he was wrong.
 
and the crime took place in Øresund, the strait between Denmark and Sweden, probably south of Copenhagen (København) and Malmö.
Has he already tried to argue that Denmark has no jurisdiction over the case, asserting it took place in Swedish waters?

I know that would be far-fetched, as the sites where the sub was sighted indicate it sailed all the time close to the Danish coast, but the defence might try anything to evade / postpone justice.
 
The prosecutor expects a life sentence for the premeditated crime of murder etc. Peter Madsen's attorney finds that it is too severe and expects 14 to 16 years.
Advokat: Derfor er livstid til Peter Madsen over målet (TV2 News, Jan. 16, 2018)

Sorry, I dont speak Danish, has the prosecutor said there is evidence the murder was premeditated? It seems such a gobsmackingly stupid crime for a smart person to have planned. Having multiple people aware that you are meeting the victim alone and taking her out to sea means at the very least you'll have some hard questions to answer when she doesn't return.

Telling easily disproved lies about the victim returning to shore, texting the sub crew that the next days outing was cancelled and scuttling the sub isn't the cleverest way to divert suspicion either. Even after all that altering your story every time new evidence is (pedictably) found that completely contradicts what you've already said doesn't scream planning to me.

This is a guy who is supposedly hyper focussed when working, someone able to turn ludicrous pipe dreams of private rockets and submarines into physical reality. All his reported post offence behaviour seems consistent with panic and desperation.

If the murder was planned, it was planned really badly. If it wasn't planned then what could have caused it? Could Madsen just have become so crazy that he couldn't contain himelf with a woman alone with him on the sub?
 
Has he already tried to argue that Denmark has no jurisdiction over the case, asserting it took place in Swedish waters?

I know that would be far-fetched, as the sites where the sub was sighted indicate it sailed all the time close to the Danish coast, but the defence might try anything to evade / postpone justice.

To my knowledge he hasn't. There is a Danish island, Saltholm, in the strait, and everything took place in the waters between Amager and Saltholm, so there is not the slightest doubt that he was in Danish territorial waters.

ETA, also, he would gain nothing by coming before a Swedish court instead.

Hans
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I dont speak Danish, has the prosecutor said there is evidence the murder was premeditated? It seems such a gobsmackingly stupid crime for a smart person to have planned. Having multiple people aware that you are meeting the victim alone and taking her out to sea means at the very least you'll have some hard questions to answer when she doesn't return.

Telling easily disproved lies about the victim returning to shore, texting the sub crew that the next days outing was cancelled and scuttling the sub isn't the cleverest way to divert suspicion either. Even after all that altering your story every time new evidence is (pedictably) found that completely contradicts what you've already said doesn't scream planning to me.

This is a guy who is supposedly hyper focussed when working, someone able to turn ludicrous pipe dreams of private rockets and submarines into physical reality. All his reported post offence behaviour seems consistent with panic and desperation.

If the murder was planned, it was planned really badly. If it wasn't planned then what could have caused it? Could Madsen just have become so crazy that he couldn't contain himelf with a woman alone with him on the sub?

The reason for the claim of premeditation are several:

- It seems he took various utensils on board the sub beforehand, including a saw. Of course, that could have been for mundane purposes.

- He invited several other women for a trip, but they did not want to come. Finally he, at rather short notice, invited Kim Wall. Kim Wall had earlier approached him for an interview, but he had refused or stalled. Now he called her and said he would give the interview, provided it was on board the Nautilus.

- And, of course, the snuff videos found in his posession.

.... Those are the things that have expired publicly, so far. The prosecution may have other stuff up their sleeve.

As for the stupidity: It seems that Peter Madsen has always been a man of grandiose fantasies, but he appears to have become increasingly detached from reality in the later years. Somebody from his former group has described him as "a man without a stop button".

We shall se how the case goes.

Hans
 
Sorry, I dont speak Danish, has the prosecutor said there is evidence the murder was premeditated? It seems such a gobsmackingly stupid crime for a smart person to have planned. Having multiple people aware that you are meeting the victim alone and taking her out to sea means at the very least you'll have some hard questions to answer when she doesn't return.

Telling easily disproved lies about the victim returning to shore, texting the sub crew that the next days outing was cancelled and scuttling the sub isn't the cleverest way to divert suspicion either. Even after all that altering your story every time new evidence is (pedictably) found that completely contradicts what you've already said doesn't scream planning to me.

This is a guy who is supposedly hyper focussed when working, someone able to turn ludicrous pipe dreams of private rockets and submarines into physical reality. All his reported post offence behaviour seems consistent with panic and desperation.

If the murder was planned, it was planned really badly. If it wasn't planned then what could have caused it? Could Madsen just have become so crazy that he couldn't contain himelf with a woman alone with him on the sub?

I can imagine both.
Premeditated from some sick fantasy and with some explanation, which sounded plausible at the time when the fantasy came up in his mind.

Panic after the deed has been done, the adrenaline rush has disappeared and the reality about what he just had done sank in.
 
I can imagine both.
Premeditated from some sick fantasy and with some explanation, which sounded plausible at the time when the fantasy came up in his mind.

That is my totally unqualified guess as well. Toying with the idea, getting prepared, now getting a woman alone on the boat ... and then .. that missing stop button.

Panic after the deed has been done, the adrenaline rush has disappeared and the reality about what he just had done sank in.

Right, plus, most criminals only plan to some point. Well, maybe some make full plans, but those are probably never found out.

If you read accounts of real crimes, you will often see a well planned and well executed crime (be it murder, robbery, or something else), and then at some point ... Ooops! What now?

I have an example: Many years ago we had a master eskaper in Denmark. Serving a prison term for some rather mundane crime (I don't remember which), he planned the perfect escape, tunneling from his cell, through several walls and and underground, till he was free. But there, his plans stopped. He walked a few miles from the prison, then hid in the loft of a farm and stayed there for several days, sneaking down at night to steal some food from the kitchen. Eventually he was discovered and put back behind bars.

Unfortunately, I could only find a Danish source: http://udbryderkongen.dk/om-carl-august-lorentzen/

Hans
 
- He invited several other women for a trip, but they did not want to come. Finally he, at rather short notice, invited Kim Wall. Kim Wall had earlier approached him for an interview, but he had refused or stalled. Now he called her and said he would give the interview, provided it was on board the Nautilus.


... flere kvinder, som ikke ønsker at stå frem, men som fik tilbudt en tur i opfinderens ubåd i dagene op til den skæbnesvangre 10. august sidste år.
Kim Walls kæreste sagde nej til at sejle ud med Kim og Peter Madsen
Da ingen af de andre indbudte damer bed på, genoptog Madsen en flere måneder gammel korrespondance med Kim Wall og tilbød hende det interview, hun havde forespurgt allerede i foråret.
Peter Madsens betingelser var klare:
Interviewet skulle foregå samme aften om bord på ubåden.
Det fortæller Kim Walls kæreste, som ønsker at være anonym, i et interview til TV2. Raket-Madsens uhyggelige plan: På kvindejagt


My translation:
"... several women who want to stay anonymous were offered a ride in the inventor's submarine in the days before the fatal August 10 last year.
Kim Wall's fiancé declined to go sailing with Kim and Peter Madsen.
When none of the other women he had invited accepted his invitation, he resumed a several-months-old correspondence with Kim Wall and offered her the interview that she had requested in the spring of 2017.
Peter Madsen's conditions were clear: The interview had to take place that same night in the submarine.
This is what Kim Wall's fiancé, who wants to remain anonymous, says in an interview with TV2."
 
My translation:
"... several women who want to stay anonymous were offered a ride in the inventor's submarine in the days before the fatal August 10 last year.
Kim Wall's fiancé declined to go sailing with Kim and Peter Madsen.
When none of the other women he had invited accepted his invitation, he resumed a several-months-old correspondence with Kim Wall and offered her the interview that she had requested in the spring of 2017.
Peter Madsen's conditions were clear: The interview had to take place that same night in the submarine.This is what Kim Wall's fiancé, who wants to remain anonymous, says in an interview with TV2."

Wow, that's super creepy.

Thanks for translating that, it certainly puts the crime in a new light for me. It makes it seem like Madsen definitely planned to kill her. What makes it somehow worse for me is that this intelligent, organized man did this in such a way that guaranteed he would be at least the prime suspect in her disappearence. It's like his need to kill was so strong it overwrote his ability to assess consequences. That meant that Kim Wall was unable to accurately assess the danger of the situation. A public figure that was known by others to be isolated with her would have to be crazy to attack her.

Unfortunately it sounds like his bloodlust was overwhelming him. It makes me wonder if Kim's fiance would have survived if he had gone onto the sub as well.
 

Back
Top Bottom