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The "Nakba" Myth

Mycroft said:
It's much milder here at the JREF, but it's the same thing.
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Yes, "Nakba-denier" is a bit of a play on "Holocaust-denier"..

...except for the fact that the arguments and logic for those who claim that Israel never expelled any Palestinans or that they deserved to be expelled, tend to be quite similar and sometimes almost identical, as those of Holocaust-deniers.

Would you prefer we instead use the term "Nakba-revisionists"?
 
Thunder said:
he wasn't comparing the Holocaust to the Nakba.
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I usually point out the holocaust is its Hollywood name and that Israel uses a name which means Nakbah in hebrew.

I also point out no one should take them seriously in their faith in the Shoah until they get around to recognizing the Nakbah -- and the Armenian genocide which is currently denied solely for good relations with Turkey.
 
Thunder said:
The Prevention of Infiltration Law is an Israeli law enacted in 1954, in large, to prevent Palestinian refugees re-entry into Israel and allow for their re-expulsion, and in the case of Palestinians who were internally displaced within what became Israel, to allow for their expulsion from Israel if they attempted to return to their villages and towns.
After the 1948 Arab–Israeli War (known to Israelis as the "War of Independence" and to Palestinians as Al-Nakba, or "The Catastrophe") and the 1948 Palestinian exodus, many Palestinians who either fled or were expelled from their towns and villages, whether they had had altogether ventured beyond what became Israel (largely into the neighbouring Arab countries of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) or were internally displaced, tried for many year since then to return to the places they had left. The Israeli Government enacted the Prevention of Infiltration Law in order to forbid and impede, what under the law receives the name of "infiltration", into Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Infiltration_law

Its starting to make sense, why the Palestinians call it a "disaster".

How can Israelis accept this? This makes me very sad.
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As long as they are doing it to someone else it is fine. It is a religious thing.
 
Mycroft said:
The term "Nakba denier" was coined to parody "Holocaust denier" and its use is a deliberate attempt to provoke and anger supporters of Israel by both comparing the "Nakba" to the Holocaust and by comparing supporters of Israel to Holocaust deniers.
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It is not possible to take anyone seriously who gets emotional about things which happened before he was born to people he never met. All emotion about such people and events is a public sham like hiring mourners. People are not like that.

It's just another aspect of what's seen in the darker corners of the internet, where people who enjoy provoking and angering Jews get their thrills by making Jewish/Nazi comparisons. They throw around terms like "ZioNAZI" or "ashkeNAZI" and make allegations that Jews consider themselves a "master-race". It's much milder here at the JREF, but it's the same thing.
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Rather it has been the sham outrage which perhaps deserves a award for acting rather than something to be taken seriously. Real people do not behave like that.
 
Matt Giwer said:
It is not possible to take anyone seriously who gets emotional about things which happened before he was born to people he never met. All emotion about such people and events is a public sham like hiring mourners. People are not like that.



Rather it has been the sham outrage which perhaps deserves a award for acting rather than something to be taken seriously. Real people do not behave like that.
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What a bizarre thing to say.

First, I don't recall saying anyone had strong emotions. Second, why wouldn't a normal person have strong emotions about an important or stirring event from history? Just because you're not there personally doesn't mean you can't have normal empathy for the people who were there and grieve for the suffering they must have gone through unless some psychological ailment prevented it.
 
mortimer said:
I think know in Matt's view, all these achievements are negated by the fact that they're all stinkin' Jews who should have been burned in the crematoriums, had they existed in the first place.
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The failure to contribute anything of interest to civilization is nothing new. Bibleland has never contributed anything to civilization in any field.
 
Mycroft said:
What a bizarre thing to say.

First, I don't recall saying anyone had strong emotions. Second, why wouldn't a normal person have strong emotions about an important or stirring event from history? Just because you're not there personally doesn't mean you can't have normal empathy for the people who were there and grieve for the suffering they must have gone through unless some psychological ailment prevented it.
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People do not have emotional responses to things that happened before they were born to people they never knew. It is all a sham. Like I said, it is like hiring mourners.
 
Matt Giwer said:
People do not have emotional responses to things that happened before they were born to people they never knew. It is all a sham. Like I said, it is like hiring mourners.
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bollocks.....absolute unmitigated bollocks. People have emotional responses to movies son....of course they have emotional responses to histroric events. Huge historic events that involved thier ancestors. Not to mention the often very emotional material they see from the period.

This is a facile argument used to deny any link between existing populations and thier heritage.
 
Matt Giwer said:
The failure to contribute anything of interest to civilization is nothing new. Bibleland has never contributed anything to civilization in any field.
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A few examples broken down per field:

Science and technology in Israel

Specifically in the medical field:

Israel Journal of Medical Sciences

Various projects and R&D in electronics, computers, software, etc.:
BIRD foundation

Could go on for ages to counter this laughable remarks that you constantly make above. But I'm sure you'll keep on making them.... :p
 
Israeli contributions to modern civilization:






Egypt/ Saudi Arabia/ Iraq/ Jordan/ Syria/ ect contribution to modern civilization:

 
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Why? All I said was that Israel accomplished heaps of stuff but that Arab states haven't accomplished anything. Which is 100% true. To not understand this would be to miss out on a major impromptus behind Islamism, and other totalitarian systems for that matter.

The Islamic and Arab world lags behind the rest of the world. Arab universities are bottom of the world. They create nothing, they contribute noting, they're incapable of anything. The Islamists know this. They think that if they embrace the values of Islam when it was at its cultural peak, and purge all the "impurities" then they'll become a superpower. Which is completely mad but that's what totalitarianism is.

Think of the Chinese communists boasting of catching up to Britain by forcing everyone into collectives and melting all their metal in backyard furnaces. An appallingly pathetic idea. We're going to catch up, but not through a free government, free press, free exchange of ideas and free markets (totalitarianism is a rejection of all these things) but through our new visionary way that's even better.

Believe me, the Islamists know how poorly their societies measure up to the rest of the world, including Israel. Supremacist ideology is an attempt to compensate for this and the conspiracy theories absolve them of personal responsibility for their situation.
 
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Virus said:
Why? All I said was that Israel accomplished heaps of stuff but that Arab states haven't accomplished anything. Which is 100% true.
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new thread on this topic created on Social Issues.
 
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Another set of posts moved to AAH. Cut it out guys or expect to see some infractions occupying this territory.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky
 
Tricky said:
Another set of posts moved to AAH. Cut it out guys or expect to see some infractions occupying this territory.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky
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occupied..or disputed?

:)
 
The Fool said:
bollocks.....absolute unmitigated bollocks. People have emotional responses to movies son....of course they have emotional responses to histroric events. Huge historic events that involved thier ancestors. Not to mention the often very emotional material they see from the period.

This is a facile argument used to deny any link between existing populations and thier heritage.
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One might almost think you are unable to understand the subject being discussed that you compare it to transitory movies. You would probably make the same claim over a stirring national anthem. Obviously you are describing a response to the portrayal in the movie not to the events themselves. The movie is experienced. The events of the movie are not.

But for purposes of this response I will assume you are deliberately trying to confuse the subject and create a distraction.

Clearly I am referring to matters such as mourning the death of one's great-great-grandmother who died decades before one was born. There is no sense of loss, period. There is no feeling of mourning, period. It is no more than a fact without emotional content.

It is as incredible as finding people in Virginia today mourning the loss of the American Civil War by the South or people in New York today feeling elation over the hard won victory of the North. Certainly movies about that ACW can cause transient emotional response to the portrayal but not to the event.

In matters of the holy holocaust certainly those who actually experienced it and are old enough to actually remember that experience may be expected to have some emotional response to their memories. One may have an emotional response to the story told by the living person but not to the experience itself.

As the authors of Fragments and Painted Bird have demonstrated, frauds can express emotion as though it had been a personal experience. Or perhaps it simply shows how desperately holohuggers want to believe or that they have no critical judgement regarding holocaustic matters. In any event pretending to the experience can be learned well enough to fool the intended audience.
 
Virus said:
Why? All I said was that Israel accomplished heaps of stuff but that Arab states haven't accomplished anything. Which is 100% true. To not understand this would be to miss out on a major impromptus behind Islamism, and other totalitarian systems for that matter.

The Islamic and Arab world lags behind the rest of the world. Arab universities are bottom of the world. They create nothing, they contribute noting, they're incapable of anything. The Islamists know this. They think that if they embrace the values of Islam when it was at its cultural peak, and purge all the "impurities" then they'll become a superpower. Which is completely mad but that's what totalitarianism is.

Think of the Chinese communists boasting of catching up to Britain by forcing everyone into collectives and melting all their metal in backyard furnaces. An appallingly pathetic idea. We're going to catch up, but not through a free government, free press, free exchange of ideas and free markets (totalitarianism is a rejection of all these things) but through our new visionary way that's even better.

Believe me, the Islamists know how poorly their societies measure up to the rest of the world, including Israel. Supremacist ideology is an attempt to compensate for this and the conspiracy theories absolve them of personal responsibility for their situation.
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you just used one of the big Arab contributions to the human society.
you just lack behind the knowledge to realize that.

your brush is way to broad.... it is disgusting.
 
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