The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Those numbers don't seem relevant. In the first place, you're are citing a subset of evangelicals. Not sure why you think "protestant" is relevant. That neither strictly evangelical nor all of Christians. So I don't see the point.


I didn't say all Christians were Evangelical. I said that half of US religious people are Evangelical/Fundamentalist.

But that is not true.

I posted what the cited source said. Feel free to cite something supporting your assertions.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

About half of religious people in the US are Protestants. About half of US Protestants are Evangelical/Fundamentalist. So Evangelicals/Fundamentalists are about 25% of religious people in the US. There is a bit of rounding there and different studies half slightly different numbers, so it is probably more like 30%. Could maybe be as high as 35%. Still quite a bit less than half.

This is a more rational assertion and the data I posted supports it.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

But that is not true.

I posted what the cited source said. Feel free to cite something supporting your assertions.

I just explained how the article you cited supports that more than 44% of Christians are Evangelical/Fundamentalist.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Can you provide a cite for these numbers? I just cited numbers from the link that SG provided.....

No you didn't. Gawd knows what you were looking at on that web page.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

No you didn't. Gawd knows what you were looking at on that web page.

I divided the percentage of Evangelicals by the percentage of Christians.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I divided the percentage of Evangelicals by the percentage of Christians.

With the numbers straight from the source: Total Protestants: 25.1% of people in the US identify as.

Of that total 16.2% identify as Evangelical.
There is no aditional math or division needed.

 

[smartcooky]

I agree with the bolded but they were a relatively small group.

As for the direction we are going, I posted a citation above where a current survey showed Dump losing adherents. He is no longer in power. His means of communication on social media is close to nil. He is no long the star in the room.

That may be so, but the underlying stuff that brought him to power; the racism, the far right philosophy, the white supremacism - that is all still there simmering below the surface.

In 2016 you got an unqualified, bumbling, failed businessman for a President, one who didn't really know how to be a leader beyond barking orders. He thought being President would give him the ability to do anything he wanted, get anything he wanted, and make others do what he wanted. It took him four years to take down the guard rails that prevented him from getting his way, and by then, his term was up, and it was too late.

Next time, you might not be so lucky, you might end up with a Ted Cruz or a Josh Hawley. Don't underestimate these two, they are smart, and politically savvy - they will have observed what Dump did that failed, and they won't repeat those mistakes... the guard rails will all be gone by the end of January.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

With the numbers straight from the source: Total Protestants: 25.1% of people in the US identify as.

Of that total 16.2% identify as Evangelical.
There is no aditional math or division needed.

I don't care that you cited the correct value for the wrong numbers. BTW I'm assuming these are correct, since they don't matter, I don't care, and I didn't double check them.

 

[Stacyhs]

you might end up with a Ted Cruz or a Josh Hawley. .

Go to your room until you can learn how to behave in polite company!

 

[smartcooky]

Go to your room until you can learn how to behave in polite company!

Yes Mummy!

 

[MRC_Hans]

That may be so, but the underlying stuff that brought him to power; the racism, the far right philosophy, the white supremacism - that is all still there simmering below the surface.

In 2016 you got an unqualified, bumbling, failed businessman for a President, one who didn't really know how to be a leader beyond barking orders. He thought being President would give him the ability to do anything he wanted, get anything he wanted, and make others do what he wanted. It took him four years to take down the guard rails that prevented him from getting his way, and by then, his term was up, and it was too late.

Next time, you might not be so lucky, you might end up with a Ted Cruz or a Josh Hawley. Don't underestimate these two, they are smart, and politically savvy - they will have observed what Dump did that failed, and they won't repeat those mistakes... the guard rails will all be gone by the end of January.

I'm not saying the situation is not problematic, but incompetence is not the only reason T**** did not get his way. In a well-consolidated democracy (and after all, that is what the USA remains), you can't just remove the guard rails. As he discovered, courts, even the ones he stacked himself, didn't just rule the way he wanted. Elections couldn't just be worked around. Civil servants knew the rules and played by them.

Hans

 

[ponderingturtle]

I fear they won't remain bumbling idiots for long.

It will not have gone unnoticed that the main reasons for so many of them getting caught was because they failed to hide their faces, they videoed themselves breaking the law, and then afterwards, openly bragged about what they did.

If there is another January 6 type event in the future, they won't make these particular mistakes again!

Yea because they thought it was a movie and once the people rise up and storm the government it just falls. Roll credits. Being totally out of touch with reality was a major part of the whole thing.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Because this:



It's a joke that there is any kind of force involved here. The people who broke into the Capitol, and failed BTW, were a rag-tag group of weekend warriors who have a much too high opinion of their 'pretend to be revolutionaries' games. They were accompanied by an army a cluster **** of complete idiots. And they were led by Dump who had a delusional vision that some army of the people was going to keep him in power.

And yet they were not lacking in military veterans or police officers.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yeah...no. Not the least bit street smart.


So here's the thing with that.

History:

GOP fear-mongering and courting fanatical single issue voters since Reagan.

GOP gets the voters they wished for starting with the TEA Party.

It leads up to someone like Dump getting elected.

And that's where the whole thing fell apart.​

Dump is an incompetent delusional person whose one redeeming skill is he's a very good conman.

It's that first part that is the problem for Dump. There is no there there behind the curtain.

If he had been a true Hitler-esque person we might have been in big trouble. If the GOP had succeeded in actually stealing the election we'd be in big trouble because 4 more years of Dump would have made a very big mess. Corruption which is already a serious problem would have been horrendous with a Dump second term.

Dump is delusional. He's not some fantastically skilled leader.

So was Hitler, he was not some brilliant mind, but a corrupt con man with certain notable delusions .

 

[MRC_Hans]

I fear they won't remain bumbling idiots for long.

It will not have gone unnoticed that the main reasons for so many of them getting caught was because they failed to hide their faces, they videoed themselves breaking the law, and then afterwards, openly bragged about what they did.

If there is another January 6 type event in the future, they won't make these particular mistakes again!

Well, presumably neither will the defenders, who also didn't seem to be well prepared for the situation. Notice that on the day of the inauguration, the precautions were of an entirely different class. It would have taken a regular military unit to breach them, and I suspect even that would have failed.

On Jan 6th there was a double surprise effect:

1) The defenders (for some strange reason) didn't see it coming.

2) The attackers basically didn't know what they were doing.

Neither of these is likely to happen again.

Hans

 

[gnome]

1) The defenders (for some strange reason) didn't see it coming.

2) The attackers basically didn't know what they were doing.

Neither of these is likely to happen again.

Hans

I think we are likely to find that #1 was simply untrue. I think they were hobbled. Not necessarily by some central mastermind--possibly by various people in positions of opportunity that were sympathetic to the attackers.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I think we are likely to find that #1 was simply untrue. I think they were hobbled. Not necessarily by some central mastermind--possibly by various people in positions of opportunity that were sympathetic to the attackers.

They may well have been. But I still don't think it will happen again.

Hans

 

[Lurch]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be mean but that might apply to 10% or less of those bumbling idiots.

Did you see the young woman who was shocked she had been pepper sprayed and pushed back out of the building because "it was a revolution, man" (or words to that effect)? She was truly dumbfounded by the events.

If you think about it, how would these idiots not have known they should hide their faces? Left leaning protestors and anarchists who were partaking in serious civil disobedience have known that since at least as far back as the J Edgar Hoover days, probably long before that.

They were stupid enough to believe they would succeed and become the new US government as if no one in the military would stop them.

And how stupid was the young woman who climbed through the Chamber door window and was immediately shot and killed? What did she think would happen? Guess we'll never know.

To your last question: White privilege. To your main point: White privilege. And well justified to a point. Imagine the bloodbath had the insurrectionists been BLM.

Now that these disgruntled whites fearful of demographic change know that their privilege will get them only so far, any future action will entail less stupidity.

To blithely dismiss initial bumbling efforts is to be blind to the terrible harm that can be wreaked by a passionate few.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That may be so, but the underlying stuff that brought him to power; the racism, the far right philosophy, the white supremacism - that is all still there simmering below the surface.

In 2016 you got an unqualified, bumbling, failed businessman for a President, one who didn't really know how to be a leader beyond barking orders. He thought being President would give him the ability to do anything he wanted, get anything he wanted, and make others do what he wanted. It took him four years to take down the guard rails that prevented him from getting his way, and by then, his term was up, and it was too late.

Next time, you might not be so lucky, you might end up with a Ted Cruz or a Josh Hawley. Don't underestimate these two, they are smart, and politically savvy - they will have observed what Dump did that failed, and they won't repeat those mistakes... the guard rails will all be gone by the end of January.

I'm not saying the world is magically safe and back in order. I'm saying at the moment the trend is not toward civil war.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't care that you cited the correct value for the wrong numbers. BTW I'm assuming these are correct, since they don't matter, I don't care, and I didn't double check them.

I'm done with this stupid off-topic hill you insist on dying on. Go for it.