The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread.

[Andy_Ross]

Still waiting on the non confrontational protests.

They happened but no one noticed, there wasn't any confrontation.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do not confuse intelligence with animal cunning.

These people might not be book smart, but they are street smart. They will learn by their mistakes, in the same way that a dog learns that the ends of a cat's legs have sharp things in them that inflict pain.

Yeah...no. Not the least bit street smart.

Just on my earlier point - an anti democracy, failed businessman becomes President of the United States, and he turns out to be a corrupt authoritarian who uses the presidency to line his own pockets and those of his family, and tells tens of thousand of political lies, and breaks the law with impunity, and stokes racial divisions throughout the country, and blackmails a foreign leader to get dirt on political opponents, and incites an insurrection at the Capitol after losing the election.

Think back to 10 to 15 years; did any of these things happening seem likely to you -

So here's the thing with that.

History:

GOP fear-mongering and courting fanatical single issue voters since Reagan.

GOP gets the voters they wished for starting with the TEA Party.

It leads up to someone like Dump getting elected.

And that's where the whole thing fell apart.​

Dump is an incompetent delusional person whose one redeeming skill is he's a very good conman.

It's that first part that is the problem for Dump. There is no there there behind the curtain.

If he had been a true Hitler-esque person we might have been in big trouble. If the GOP had succeeded in actually stealing the election we'd be in big trouble because 4 more years of Dump would have made a very big mess. Corruption which is already a serious problem would have been horrendous with a Dump second term.

Dump is delusional. He's not some fantastically skilled leader.


This is not to say we didn't dodge the bullet here. We did and we aren't out of the woods.

But close to civil war? Nope, not even close.

 

[Belz...]

GOP has been dead to me for long time. around 20 years .

As far as I'm concerned, the southern strategy is what did them in.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah...no. Not the least bit street smart.


So here's the thing with that.

History:

GOP fear-mongering and courting fanatical single issue voters since Reagan.

GOP gets the voters they wished for starting with the TEA Party.

It leads up to someone like Dump getting elected.

And that's where the whole thing fell apart.​

Dump is an incompetent delusional person whose one redeeming skill is he's a very good conman.

It's that first part that is the problem for Dump. There is no there there behind the curtain.

If he had been a true Hitler-esque person we might have been in big trouble. If the GOP had succeeded in actually stealing the election we'd be in big trouble because 4 more years of Dump would have made a very big mess. Corruption which is already a serious problem would have been horrendous with a Dump second term.

Dump is delusional. He's not some fantastically skilled leader.


This is not to say we didn't dodge the bullet here. We did and we aren't out of the woods.

But close to civil war? Nope, not even close.

How close are we to an authorarian government and a phony, show democracy is the real question. i think a civil war, as tragic as that might be, is preferable to that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Actually, yes. In fact, I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.

For me, the rise of the evangelical religious right has been the key factor. It has kept its self-interested insurrection bubbling and seething away underneath the USA for decades now, feeding the ignorance and influencing where it could. Sometimes a few pustules broke the surface, until finally some of the nasty turdy scum it has brewed from the depths floats to the top.

Evangelicals missed their calling. They are not the biggest factor in our messed up government at the moment. Yes they have their Federalist Society and they have screwed up the SCOTUS for the foreseeable future. They certainly played a role in 2016. But they had to back a whore to get what they wanted and I believe the hypocrisy has damaged them.

The people I fear at the moment and have for a long time are the Kochs, the Mercers, and their ilk. These guys are fanatical faux* libertarians, with their John Birch Society roots.

*I say faux because they don't want actual Libertarianism, they want the kind where their money buys the government.

Billionaire Family Bankrolled Election Lies, Far Right and the Capitol Siege

While Charles Koch and his late brother David have dominated Republican fundraising in recent decades, the Mercers’ recent strategic investments in far-right candidates bought them a disproportionate level of influence in the Republican Party before culminating in an effort to subvert the election that fueled the deadly Capitol siege.

“The Mercers laid the groundwork for the Trump revolution,” Bannon told The New Yorker in 2017. “Irrefutably, when you look at donors during the past four years, they have had the single biggest impact of anybody, including the Kochs.” Steve Schmidt, a former Republican strategist and co-founder of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project, sees it differently. Rebekah Mercer, he said in an interview with Salon, is the “chief financier or one of the chief financiers of the fascist movement, and that’s what it is.”

They have the financial power, the Evangelicals have a big chunk of the votes and no qualms about dealing with the devil. And the GOP has the rest of the brainwashed voters.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... I ,for one, have some sympathy with the limited government wing of the party.

And who is in that wing these days?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How close are we to an authorarian government and a phony, show democracy is the real question. i think a civil war, as tragic as that might be, is preferable to that.

As long as the GOP keeps choosing losers like MTG we aren't all that close.

It looked very concerning during the 2020 election. But I think the wave passed and we are still OK.

 

[Belz...]

How close are we to an authorarian government and a phony, show democracy is the real question. i think a civil war, as tragic as that might be, is preferable to that.

Ok just don't let it spill up here.

 

[slyjoe]

Still waiting on the non confrontational protests.

They happened but no one noticed, there wasn't any confrontation.

Boycotts?

 

[Galaxie]

Citations then.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/12/17/in-a-politically-polarized-era-sharp-divides-in-both-partisan-coalitions/
Religion is only 10th in terms of the size of the opinion gap between left and right.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

https://www.pewresearch.org/politic...ra-sharp-divides-in-both-partisan-coalitions/
Religion is only 10th in terms of the size of the opinion gap between left and right.

Might want to reread what I said. Your cite doesn't address it all and what it does address indirectly suggests I was correct.

Only about half of religious people in the US are fundamentalist/evangelical.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Only about half of religious people in the US are fundamentalist/evangelical.

You might want to recheck those numbers. It's much smaller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

 

[smartcooky]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be mean but that might apply to 10% or less of those bumbling idiots..

I meant it to apply to the worst offenders, the ex-military, the ex-LEOs who knew exactly what they were doing, and used military tactics.

You can laugh it off as big joke if you like, I don't care, its your country after all

You'll be laughing on the other side of your face if your country continues to go in the direction it is going.

 

[Galaxie]

Might want to reread what I said. Your cite doesn't address it all and what it does address indirectly suggests I was correct.

Only about half of religious people in the US are fundamentalist/evangelical.

You said:

Virtually the entirety of politics in the US, the "culture wars", is a proxy for fundamentalist/literalist vs everyone else.

Yet guns, race, and climate change are where the "war" is being mostly fought. Or are you claiming that is due to religion?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

You might want to recheck those numbers. It's much smaller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

Your link doesn't support it being much smaller. Based on numbers in that article the proportion is at least 44% (34/76) and that's before accounting for fundamentalists that don't identify as evangelical.

ETA: There is also 4% of the population that is religious but non Christians. Some of them are still "fundamentalist" bible believers though. I've ignored them for the moment but they are so small it doesn't make meaningful difference.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Your link doesn't support it being much smaller. Based on numbers in that article the proportion is at least 44% (34/76) and that's before accounting for fundamentalists that don't identify as evangelical.

ETA: There is also 4% of the population that is religious but non Christians. Some of them are still "fundamentalist" bible believers though. I've ignored them for the moment but they are so small it doesn't make meaningful difference.

In 2010, Evangelicals were 16.2% of the US population and total Protestants were 25.1%. I am quoting those numbers.

And no way are all Christians Evangelicals so I'm not sure your line blurring is evidence based. They are very different groups.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I meant it to apply to the worst offenders, the ex-military, the ex-LEOs who knew exactly what they were doing, and used military tactics.

You can laugh it off as big joke if you like, I don't care, its your country after all

You'll be laughing on the other side of your face if your country continues to go in the direction it is going.

I agree with the bolded but they were a relatively small group.

As for the direction we are going, I posted a citation above where a current survey showed Dump losing adherents. He is no longer in power. His means of communication on social media is close to nil. He is no long the star in the room.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

In 2010, Evangelicals were 16.2% of the US population and total Protestants were 25.1%. I am quoting those numbers.

Those numbers don't seem relevant. In the first place, you're are citing a subset of evangelicals. Not sure why you think "protestant" is relevant. That neither strictly evangelical nor all of Christians. So I don't see the point.

And no way are all Christians Evangelicals so I'm not sure your line blurring is evidence based. They are very different groups.

I didn't say all Christians were Evangelical. I said that half of US religious people are Evangelical/Fundamentalist.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Those numbers don't seem relevant. In the first place, you're are citing a subset of evangelicals. Not sure why you think "protestant" is relevant. That neither strictly evangelical nor all of Christians. So I don't see the point.


I didn't say all Christians were Evangelical. I said that half of US religious people are Evangelical/Fundamentalist.

About half of religious people in the US are Protestants. About half of US Protestants are Evangelical/Fundamentalist. So Evangelicals/Fundamentalists are about 25% of religious people in the US. There is a bit of rounding there and different studies half slightly different numbers, so it is probably more like 30%. Could maybe be as high as 35%. Still quite a bit less than half.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

About half of religious people in the US are Protestants. About half of US Protestants are Evangelical/Fundamentalist. So Evangelicals/Fundamentalists are about 25% of religious people in the US. There is a bit of rounding there and different studies half slightly different numbers, so it is probably more like 30%. Could maybe be as high as 35%. Still quite a bit less than half.

Can you provide a cite for these numbers? I just cited numbers from the link that SG provided.


Not sure it's necessary though, given the original point. Even you apparently low numbers don't change the point.