The latest right-wing "scandal" - Umbrellagate!

[Sam.I.Am]

So that's your excuse, then? That when you said "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it" and "there are rules that every member of the armed forces have to follow while in uniform and out in public, and most of them have to do with not reflecting poorly upon the service that the uniform represents", that you were only referring to the Marines there, and were specifically excluding every other uniformed member of all the other armed forces?

I can certainly see the special pleading and goalpost moving.

No. I was referring to what the regs say. I even posted the relevant one up thread. There are plenty of images of other presidents holding their own umbrellas (and even at least one showing Obama holding one while speaking at a podium so it's not like he doesn't know how to use one or is adverse to holding one while speaking).

As to my saying "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it". I was clearly mistaken, in some cases soldiers have done it for others in the past however in none of those examples are they doing so in such a manner as to call attention to it. That's what makes it belittling.

"There are rules that every member of the armed forces have to follow while in uniform and out in public, and most of them have to do with not reflecting poorly upon the service that the uniform represents". Means exactly what it says. Every uniform regulation that I've ever read has that general rule somewhere inside them, usually right at the start. It gives the person subject to them one of the underlying reasons for the regulations existence and informs them what is expected of them. I posted the Marines version of that up thread. Here it is again:

>Ch 5 a. Marines are not known just for their battlefield prowess, but for their unparalleled standards of professionalism and uncompromising personal conduct and appearance. It is a Marine’s duty and personal obligation to maintain a professional and neat appearance. Any activity which detracts from the dignified appearance of Marines, is unacceptable. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes or the consumption of food while walking in uniform or while in formation are examples of activities that detract from the appearance expected of a United States Marine.

 

[Tricky]

As to my saying "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it". I was clearly mistaken, in some cases soldiers have done it for others in the past however in none of those examples are they doing so in such a manner as to call attention to it. That's what makes it belittling.

Wow! Bullet-train goalposts!

 

[Sam.I.Am]

If it's a Marine's turn to carry the nuclear "football" handcuffed to his wrist, should he be court-martialed because Marine regulations don't allow for wearing such an accessory as part of one's uniform?

Briefcases and other luggage are allowed by uniform regulations. The only regulations concerning them are that they be plain and black and carried in the left hand.

 

[marplots]

It is quite common for armed services personnel to have exceptions to what they may wear as part of their uniform based on the job they are doing. For example, in an environment where there is risk of radioactive exposure, a radiation badge may be required. If your duties may require you to hold an umbrella over someone (not just the president, but maybe at a funeral) then that's allowed too.

As a practical matter, these add-ons may be referred to as "equipment" instead of part of the uniform, but there certainly are exceptions to the general rules.

 

[Molinaro]

Look at it like this: the Turkish guy merited an umbrella held for him because he was a guest. If Obama had gone without an umbrella, or carried it himself, he would then either be a) making the guest look stupid and feel uncomfortable or b) making himself look lesser in importance than the foreign guy. Apart from moving the thing indoors, there was pretty much nothing Obama could have done otherwise that would not have looked bad from some perspective. I would say the least bad outcome was what happened--he had his umbrella held for him, mirroring the guest. Yes, he looked a little foolish. But at least he didn't look servile, or like he was trying to look better than the guest. From my perspective, those two things would have been worse for diplomacy and image.

Oh, and screw all y'all for making me post seriously on what may well be the stupidest topic ever posted in this forum. That makes you worse than a quadrillion Pol Pots.

I want to nominate this post... I'm just don't know what category it belongs in!

 

[A'isha]

There are plenty of images of other presidents holding their own umbrellas (and even at least one showing Obama holding one while speaking at a podium so it's not like he doesn't know how to use one or is adverse to holding one while speaking).

So? There are plenty of images of other presidents having their umbrellas held for them. Including held for them by uniformed military personnel.

As to my saying "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it". I was clearly mistaken,

Yes.

Yes, you were.

in some cases soldiers have done it for others in the past however in none of those examples are they doing so in such a manner as to call attention to it. That's what makes it belittling.

No, that's what makes it special pleading and goalpost moving to try and find a way to handwave both Bushes and Ford having umbrellas held for them by uniformed military personnel as unworthy of note, but still try to pretend that Obama having an umbrella held for him by uniformed military personnel is something "belittling" that is significant for "what it portrays about the presidents attitude towards his troops".

Your excuses are nothing more than straight-up partisan ********.

It gives the person subject to them one of the underlying reasons for the regulations existence and informs them what is expected of them. I posted the Marines version of that up thread. Here it is again:

And the idea that this actually applies to what the Marines did yesterday is laughable. Comparing holding an umbrella for the President of the United States of America to "the use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes or the consumption of food while walking in uniform or while in formation" is Obama Derangement Syndrome on some kind of unprecedented scale.

 

[Checkmite]

Briefcases and other luggage are allowed by uniform regulations. The only regulations concerning them are that they be plain and black and carried in the left hand.

So attachment via chrome chain bracelet is unacceptable?

 

[Molinaro]

As to my saying "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it". I was clearly mistaken, in some cases soldiers have done it for others in the past however in none of those examples are they doing so in such a manner as to call attention to it. That's what makes it belittling.

Is it because he's black? I'm having a hard time coming up with any other reason to draw that conclusion.

Please explain.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

As far as uniform regulations are concerned an umbrella is an article of clothing (as demonstrating the the regulations for female Marines use the term "Wear" in their description of when the use of one is allowed). No matter how you look at it they are "Wearing" it.

LOL!!!

Are you seriously comparing the president to a frail old lady and an injured person? Well ok then, Obama is the equivalent a frail old woman who has fallen and can't get up, is that better? And who said anything about a court martial? The way uniform violations get taken care of is by the military equivalent of a "Fix-it" ticket. It's only if you refuse to fix it where you might get into some trouble.

I was just pointing out some other examples where a Marine would be helping someone by doing something that you claim would be a violation of regulations. Possibly even saving someone's life. Sorry if that was a little too complicated for you.

 

[Checkmite]

Have the Marines been charged? Article 15'd? Bawled out by their squad leader? Fussed at by their mommies?

No?

Obviously they didn't "violate regulations" according to anyone who's opinion matters.

 

[Random]

Why are they having a press conference in the rain in the first place?

 

[jj]

Have the Marines been charged? Article 15'd? Bawled out by their squad leader? Fussed at by their mommies?

No?

Obviously they didn't "violate regulations" according to anyone who's opinion matters.

Imagine the squad leader's reaction to hearing "I did not follow the CIC's orders".

Do we even WANT to imagine that?

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Why are they having a press conference in the rain in the first place?

And beyond that, why did Obama invite the Prime Minister of Turkey to visit on a rainy day?

 

[applecorped]

"You can wipe out your opponents. But if you do it unjustly you become eligible for being wiped out yourself". - Hemingway



Oh, I can see how this will be claimed by both sides.

 

[TjW]

Imagine the squad leader's reaction to hearing "I did not follow the CIC's orders".

Do we even WANT to imagine that?

I have trouble imagining the President himself ever asked. I keep thinking that some aide in charge of making things run smoothly said something like: "It might start to rain. If it does, can you guys hold umbrellas over the President and his guest so they don't get wet while speaking?"
For some reason, I have a real problem imagining they whined or even thought about it much. My imagination has them saying "Yes, where are the umbrellas?"

 

[jj]

I have trouble imagining the President himself ever asked. I keep thinking that some aide in charge of making things run smoothly said something like: "It might start to rain. If it does, can you guys hold umbrellas over the President and his guest so they don't get wet while speaking?"
For some reason, I have a real problem imagining they whined or even thought about it much. My imagination has them saying "Yes, where are the umbrellas?"

Yup yup yup!

 

[applecorped]

Woof, woof, woof

 

[12AX7]

It's not about Obama looking weak, it's about how ridiculous he's making the marine look. As if he doesn't realize the intense dedication and discipline Marine's have because he's never served in the military himself. If Iamsson was on here, he'd being going half insane over this picture. LOL

A Marine following a lawful order from the Commander in Chief is ridiculous to you?

Gotcha.

It looks demeaning to the Marines. They are not there to be his butlers. Other presidents have either held their own umbrellas or have gone without them.

See above.

retarded thread is retarded

Your fellow conservatives started the "controversy".

 

[truethat]

You mean like the photo circulating of 'W' having a marine hold an umbrella over his head?

Compare the pictures side by side, the one with Bush the guy is slightly behind him with his hand down by his side and the arm holding the umbrella is behind the president. There are also a whole crew of people standing there holding the umbrella.

In this case we have two leaders speaking in the rain with "at guard" (I don't know the proper terminology) soldiers stiffly standing there holding the umbrellas jutted out.

It looks ridiculous. Like I said earlier, the picture looks ridiculous by its nature and probably someone stacked on the "oh it's violation of protocol" crap to justify it, but it looks really disrespectful to the marine.

I would imagine that if they were going to be that ceremonial about the press conference they could have simply erected a set of podium umbrellas for the purpose of protecting the speakers.

Like so
https://www.google.com/search?q=pod...-models%2F3d-podium-umbrella%2F557563;600;600

But the picture looks bad IMO

Nothing to do with race, or politics, and anyone who is trying to play it that way is just BSing outside of common sense. The picture got so much press because it looks bad.

 

[applecorped]

Your fellow conservatives started the "controversy".

And many like you wallow in it on purpose.