The latest right-wing "scandal" - Umbrellagate!

[zeggman]

Carrying an opened umbrella for someone else is against uniform regulations.

Nonsense.

They aren't carrying umbrellas as part of their uniform, and carrying umbrellas for heads of state doesn't detract from their dignity. It's not as though they're saying "Derp, lost my rifle, Sarge, mind if I carry this umbrella instead?"

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

It was a ceremonial occasion where the ceremonial Marines that are always at the White House were prepped beforehand with umbrellas to shield the Prime Minister and the President.

Why do you think they did this?

I think that we need to wait for multiple Congressional investigations to determine what Obama was covering up by having a Marine hold his umbrella.

 

[A'isha]

Maybe Marines are the only ones who's appearance can be detracted by an umbrella?

I wonder if that's more an insult to the Marines or to all the other branches.

Maybe umbrellas are like Kryptonite to Marines?

 

[zeggman]

An umbrella is a part of the Army uniform, they even get issued one. The Navy and Marine Corps do not get issued one and it's driven into you starting in boot camp that using one is against the uniform regulations.

It's mentioned several times in the regulations (PDF).

It's mentioned several times in the regulations as:

"Items normally worn with (every single damn uniform in the book)"

The only exceptions: "Umbrellas are not authorized in formations or when wearing field or utility uniforms"

ETA: Oh, I see. ARMY regulations.
So, I assume the prohibitions are as explicit in the Marine regulations?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

It's mentioned several times in the regulations as:

"Items normally worn with (every single damn uniform in the book)"

The only exceptions: "Umbrellas are not authorized in formations or when wearing field or utility uniforms"

ETA: Oh, I see. ARMY regulations.
So, I assume the prohibitions are as explicit in the Marine regulations?

The only mention of umbrellas in the regs are for Female Marines in service and dress uniforms. If they applied to everyone they wouldn't specify females. Then again there are a lot of other uniform regulations that only apply to females as well (earrings for example).

 

[Sam.I.Am]

You said "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it."

You went on to say in that post "There are rules that every member of the armed forces have to follow while in uniform and out in public, and most of them have to do with not reflecting poorly upon the service that the uniform represents."

Are you claiming now that you were only referring to the Marines there, and were specifically excluding every other uniformed member of all the other armed forces?

Is holding an umbreIla for the President of the United States of America only demeaning when a uniformed Marine does it, but not demeaning when a uniformed soldier in the Army does it?

No. I am saying that the men holding the other umbrellas are not out of uniform. They are also standing behind them and not to the side. It also appears (from what you have shown) that their arms are not fully extended in a comically ridiculous fashion. It's that position that is demeaning.

 

[332nd]

An umbrella is a part of the Army uniform, they even get issued one. The Navy and Marine Corps do not get issued one and it's driven into you starting in boot camp that using one is against the uniform regulations.

It's mentioned several times in the regulations (PDF).

Yet not a single person in my unit was issued an umbrella...

 

[A'isha]

No. I am saying that the men holding the other umbrellas are not out of uniform. They are also standing behind them and not to the side. It also appears (from what you have shown) that their arms are not fully extended in a comically ridiculous fashion. It's that position that is demeaning.

In your earlier post, where you said

It's not so much about the what, it's about the who and what it portrays about the presidents attitude towards his troops (whether that attitude is real or not). There's a reason that you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it.

you didn't say a single thing about being out of uniform or about arm position.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Ummm, the 2 Marines are not USING umbrellas, they are holding umbrellas for OTHER people.

Are you claiming that if there was a pouring rain and a Marine's elderly, frail grandmother was having trouble with her umbrella that the Marine would be court martialed if he held her umbrella for her? What if there was an accident and the EMS personnel asked a uniformed Marine to hold an umbrella over a patient while they assisted the patient. Would that merit a court martial?

As far as uniform regulations are concerned an umbrella is an article of clothing (as demonstrating the the regulations for female Marines use the term "Wear" in their description of when the use of one is allowed). No matter how you look at it they are "Wearing" it.

Are you seriously comparing the president to a frail old lady and an injured person? Well ok then, Obama is the equivalent a frail old woman who has fallen and can't get up, is that better? And who said anything about a court martial? The way uniform violations get taken care of is by the military equivalent of a "Fix-it" ticket. It's only if you refuse to fix it where you might get into some trouble.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

In your earlier post, where you said



you didn't say a single thing about being out of uniform or about arm position.

We were talking about Marines. You used pictures of Soldiers as your example. Are you confused about who I was talking about? Should I have specified only Marines? Would that make you happy?

As to the rest of it, part of what made it demeaning is their position while holding the umbrella. Notice the difference between what the Marines were doing versus what the soldiers were doing for other presidents. The soldiers were behind the president, not front and center. Can you not see the difference?

 

[A'isha]

We were talking about Marines. You used pictures of Soldiers as your example. Are you confused about who I was talking about? Should I have specified only Marines? Would that make you happy?

So that's your excuse, then? That when you said "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him. It belittles the person holding it" and "there are rules that every member of the armed forces have to follow while in uniform and out in public, and most of them have to do with not reflecting poorly upon the service that the uniform represents", that you were only referring to the Marines there, and were specifically excluding every other uniformed member of all the other armed forces?

As to the rest of it, part of what made it demeaning is their position while holding the umbrella. Notice the difference between what the Marines were doing versus what the soldiers were doing for other presidents. The soldiers were behind the president, not front and center. Can you not see the difference?

I can certainly see the special pleading and goalpost moving.

 

[jj]

It looks demeaning to the Marines. They are not there to be his butlers. Other presidents have either held their own umbrellas or have gone without them.

You mean like the photo circulating of 'W' having a marine hold an umbrella over his head?

 

[jj]

It was a ceremonial occasion where the ceremonial Marines that are always at the White House were prepped beforehand with umbrellas to shield the Prime Minister and the President.

Why do you think they did this?

So the CIC could carry on with business without getting drenched, perchance?

 

[marplots]

I think that being given the honor of assisting the President is probably the furthest thing from demeaning for an armed services member. Even if you don't care for Obama, you ought to at least care about the office of the Presidency. Those marines will be telling about working for Obama to their grandchildren, and well they should - it's a privilege to do so.

Frankly, it's an insult to think that holding an umbrella would take anything away from these heroes.

 

[SezMe]

No matter how you look at it they are "Wearing" it.

You just have to be joking. When's the last time someone noted, "Oh, I see you're wearing your brolly today."

 

[SezMe]

Apart from moving the thing indoors, there was pretty much nothing Obama could have done otherwise that would not have looked bad from some perspective.

I dunno. Why not just move the lecterns back a few feet under the portico?

 

[A'isha]

You just have to be joking. When's the last time someone noted, "Oh, I see you're wearing your brolly today."

Depends.

Did they get caught out after saying things like "other presidents have either held their own umbrellas or have gone without them" and "you won't see other presidents having uniformed people holding his umbrella for him" too?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I dunno. Why not just move the lecterns back a few feet under the portico?

Turkish diplomat guy: "I'm here today to--"
Obama: "Wait! Let's move back a few feet."
[Obama drags the podiums backwards]
Internet blowhards: "OMG OBAMA IS AFRAID OF RAIN IMPEACH HIM!!!!"

There is nothing, nothing Obama could do that wouldn't be criticized.

 

[Checkmite]

If it's a Marine's turn to carry the nuclear "football" handcuffed to his wrist, should he be court-martialed because Marine regulations don't allow for wearing such an accessory as part of one's uniform?

 

[Molinaro]

It looks absolutely ridiculous to have a marine standing at guard and holding a freakin' umbrella that way. I don't think that originally it was about the code, maybe someone mentioned how ridiculous it looks, and then someone half mentioned about the code they ran with that.

But looking at the picture Obama looks like a total moron having a marine hold his umbrella for him, it demeans the marine and just looks bad. Why didn't he have one of his cronies stand behind him with the umbrella?

I usually disagree with the Anti Obama freaks, but this just bad.

Outraged over this picture also?

How about if I keep adding pictures of every single previous president doing the same thing will your outrage grow with every one?

Other presidents have either held their own umbrellas or have gone without them.

That is not true.