The Jan. 6 Investigation

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I'm a huge WW2 history buff. But what is most fascinating is how Hitler rose to power. Nobody took him seriously. He was a buffoon, a clown. The people wouldn't follow him. But he appealed to something awful that lurks in humans. Joseph McCarthy was similar. It's tribal. It's that John Wayne, Clint Eastwood macho simplistic black/white authoritarianism.
 
acbytesla said:
I'm a huge WW2 history buff. But what is most fascinating is how Hitler rose to power. Nobody took him seriously. He was a buffoon, a clown. The people wouldn't follow him. But he appealed to something awful that lurks in humans. Joseph McCarthy was similar. It's tribal. It's that John Wayne, Clint Eastwood macho simplistic black/white authoritarianism.
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Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.
 
Stacyhs said:
Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.
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Who are quite often the same person at different times of their lives.

Almost as though it's the certainty of the dogma rather than the content that's appealing.
 
Warp12 said:
The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

If you can't see the humor in that, I don't know what to tell you. :D
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Wrong. I have other close family Trump supporters that are actually pretty stupid. My Dad is not.
 
Parents and grandparents, in my experience, often have a knee jerk bias towards against progressivism because they are worried about their offspring. Trump gives out false certainty, and that certainty that tomorrow will continue to be very much like today is what is attractive to older voters.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Parents and grandparents, in my experience, often have a knee jerk bias towards against progressivism because they are worried about their offspring. Trump gives out false certainty, and that certainty that tomorrow will continue to be very much like today is what is attractive to older voters.
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Not my Dad. He has his. His kids can fend for themselves. He's selfish with his money, and politics is all about how it affects him personally, nothing more. He's a good Dad but it's the truth. He doesn't realize he is this way, the rest of us do.

My Dad is a lost cause though, and not just because he's old. His best friend was Goldwater Jr's Chief Of Staff, and he was very good friends with Reagan. His name is John/Jack Cox if anyone cares.

This guy is way more conservative than my Dad but my Dad thinks he's a big deal. He is a great family friend, and politics aside a pretty good guy.
 
Stacyhs said:
Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.
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One of my favorite examples of this is Robespierre. He wanted a democracy and the rule of law. He was against capital punishment and for a more progressive society. Yet he led the Reign of Terror which saw thousands of executions including one of the greatest scientists
Lavoisier with little or no evidence.

He very much felt it was for the greater good.

His zeal also resulted in his own execution.
 
mgidm86 said:
Not my Dad. He has his. His kids can fend for themselves. He's selfish with his money, and politics is all about how it affects him personally, nothing more. He's a good Dad but it's the truth. He doesn't realize he is this way, the rest of us do.

My Dad is a lost cause though, and not just because he's old. His best friend was Goldwater Jr's Chief Of Staff, and he was very good friends with Reagan. His name is John/Jack Cox if anyone cares.

This guy is way more conservative than my Dad but my Dad thinks he's a big deal. He is a great family friend, and politics aside a pretty good guy.
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I am going with you here. My long dead father was a smart guy and rose to high office in government departments, yet still remained to his dying day a devout catholic. He managed to raise four godless atheist children (me being number three of four). I always like to observe that he was not just a gentleman, but also a gentle man. There is a distinction.

At one point, as a holy roman catholic, he decided that we should have a rosary every night. So, initially, we four went along to keep the peace, After a while of droning, we all found excuses for not attending.

I have this thing to attend to, or this club to go to or this school thing to do, so eventually he was on his lonesome.

Anything to avoid the religious bollocks.
 
abaddon said:
I am going with you here. My long dead father was a smart guy and rose to high office in government departments, yet still remained to his dying day a devout catholic. He managed to raise four godless atheist children (me being number three of four). I always like to observe that he was not just a gentleman, but also a gentle man. There is a distinction.

At one point, as a holy roman catholic, he decided that we should have a rosary every night. So, initially, we four went along to keep the peace, After a while of droning, we all found excuses for not attending.

I have this thing to attend to, or this club to go to or this school thing to do, so eventually he was on his lonesome.

Anything to avoid the religious bollocks.
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When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:
 
Stacyhs said:
When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:
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Haha, awesome
 
The House select committee investigating the January 6 Capitol riot has hired an investigator that it probably should be bringing in as a witness instead.

The committee tasked with finding out how January 6 was allowed to happen announced last Friday that it had hired Joe Maher, a senior official at the Department of Homeland Security, to help run its investigation into the failures that led to the tragic day. That’s an alarming conflict of interest: Maher was running one of the key offices that may have contributed to that failure.
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https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/g5g397/congress-capitol-riot-investigator-maher
 
Stacyhs said:
When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:
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LOL. Years ago my kids staged a rebellion against my hex-wife about Sunday church. They simply refused to go. I got the blame, of course, but I was as surprised as anyone. Up to then, I had carefully avoided such theological issues. Nevertheless, one Sunday they simply downed tools and refused to get out of bed. The convo had me going "You did WHAT? Bwahahahahahahaha" rather often.
 
abaddon said:
LOL. Years ago my kids staged a rebellion against my hex-wife about Sunday church. They simply refused to go. I got the blame, of course, but I was as surprised as anyone. Up to then, I had carefully avoided such theological issues. Nevertheless, one Sunday they simply downed tools and refused to get out of bed. The convo had me going "You did WHAT? Bwahahahahahahaha" rather often.
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Was that intentional? LOL!
 
Parsman said:
You seem to be being contrarian for the sake of it. A large group of people gathered at the behest of 45, and were whipped into a frenzy by rhetoric from45, Giuliani, Brooks etc. They were urged to go to The Capitol and "Stop the Steal". They proceeded to try to do that by the use of force, intimidation and violence. They were even prepared to attack and injure law enforcement to achieve their ends, that end being stopping a democratic transfer of power and keep the loser in power. Your quibble seems to be this wasn't a coup because... reasons? It might not have been the most organised of coups, it might not have had military backing. Heck given the loons heading the movement, 45 and his minions, I doubt they could plan the proverbial piss up in the brewery but it was an attempted violent overthrow of an election. So get out your thesaurus if you don't like the word coup, but your side has to own this for what it was, and the enquiry I am sure will clarify that enough even for you.
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Are you still sure?
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources
 
Ziggurat said:
Are you still sure?
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources
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An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.


A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/ ( listen); French for "blow of state"), usually shortened to coup, is the seizure and removal of a government and its powers. Typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a political faction, the military, or a dictator.
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Did the insurgents attempt to stop the vote verification? Yes
Was the intent to stop the installation of the legally elected Biden? Yes
Was the insurgents' attempt to stop the verification by storming the Capitol illegal? Yes
Was the attempt to stop the verification unconstitutional? Yes
Was it done by a political faction? Yes

Sounds like an attempted coup to me.
 
Stacyhs said:
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.
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In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:

theprestige said:
Tell me more. Tell me about the coup plot. Tell me about the conspiracy to assassinate government officials. Who were the ringleaders of this plot? Who were the operatives? Where are the informers who blew the conspiracy wide open?
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A plot does need to be organized, even if not well organized. But even the conspiracies which were organized (though not well) were apparently not conspiracies to commit a coup or assassinate government officials. Quoting from my link:

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."​
 
Stacyhs said:
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.




Did the insurgents attempt to stop the vote verification? Yes
Was the intent to stop the installation of the legally elected Biden? Yes
Was the insurgents' attempt to stop the verification by storming the Capitol illegal? Yes
Was the attempt to stop the verification unconstitutional? Yes
Was it done by a political faction? Yes

Sounds like an attempted coup to me.
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This.:thumbsup:
 
Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.
 
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