The Heiwa Challenge

[twinstead]

The Heiwa Challenge is open to any ASCE member/expert and NIST/Purdue employé. ASCE/NIST have no info about structures that self-destruct when a part of a structure drops on the remainder of the structure. Isn't it time to provide info of such dangerous structures? Any such structure will win The Heiwa Challenge!

That would be nice if your challenge had anything to do with the WTC collapses. But, alas, I could care less about it. You don't even know that your part A doesn't exist, and the mass of the building above the collapse initiation, driven by gravity, only needs to collapse the smaller single floor beneath it--there is, therefore NO smaller part crushing down a larger part. It's crushing down a smaller part, one at a time. How good can your challenge be if you can't even get that point?

So, my point stands. Convince the ASCE that the collapses of the WTC are impossible as described by NIST, Purdue, etc. Until then, you're just some guy on the internet who thinks he's smarter than everybody else, just like SteveAustin, Bill smith, and others.

 

[BigAl]

The Heiwa Challenge is open to any ASCE member/expert and NIST/Purdue employé. ASCE/NIST have no info about structures that self-destruct when a part of a structure drops on the remainder of the structure. Isn't it time to provide info of such dangerous structures? Any such structure will win The Heiwa Challenge!

Do you claim or deny that The Heiwa Challenge is supposed to model the WTC towers and why they collapsed on 9/11?

 

[Heiwa]

Measures to protect the buildings are usually already in place to prevent it. They can't do anything about it when the collapse has already started.

You sure? Pls expand on it and include your findings in your design of a Heiwa Challenge structure. FYI, drop part C on part A to start the one-way crush down! The drop is easy! But then? What is supposed to collapse? Part A? Prove it!

 

[BigAl]

You sure? Pls expand on it and include your findings in your design of a Heiwa Challenge structure. FYI, drop part C on part A to start the one-way crush down! The drop is easy! But then? What is supposed to collapse? Part A? Prove it!

So the Heiwa Challenge has nothing to do with WTC and why the twwers collapsed.

 

[twinstead]

So the Heiwa Challenge has nothing to do with WTC and why the twwers collapsed.

Nope. It's a silly little mind game to prevent him from dealing with the fact he's totally wrong about the WTC collapses.

 

[Heiwa]

So the Heiwa Challenge has nothing to do with WTC and why the twwers collapsed.

Pls read post #1. How is your design getting along

 

[BigAl]

Pls read post #1. How is your design getting along

I'm not interested in models of anything but the WTC tower collapse. That would feature structural damage, protracted fire, and massive overload of each floor, one floor at a time.

 

[Heiwa]

I'm not interested in models of anything but the WTC tower collapse. That would feature structural damage, protracted fire, and massive overload of each floor, one floor at a time.

Well, this popular thread is about designing a structure that features structural damage when you apply energy on it by dropping a part on it and associated local overload on the elements, one at a time of course.

An element can be a floor, etc, etc. Purpose is to get an understanding of the WTC tower destructions.

Thanks for your interest and comments. Pls focus on the design and try to recreate, e.g. a WTC tower collapse.

 

[A W Smith]

You sure? Pls expand on it and include your findings in your design of a Heiwa Challenge structure. FYI, drop part C on part A to start the one-way crush down! The drop is easy! But then? What is supposed to collapse? Part A? Prove it!

My findings can be found within post 1963

Part "C' the antenna array. drops on part "'A" the tower support element and destroys the TV tower completely. To the point of falling steel embedding itself so deep into the earth that it cannot be extracted and is simply cut off 2 feet below the surface and abandoned during the clean up.

 

[tfk]

SA,

Nice job ignoring everything that I wrote.

Or you could instead take 2 cinder blocks and place one on the ground and lift the other one up say about 15 feet and drop it on the other one. What happens? The block you dropped gets smashed and takes more damage than the block that was lying on the ground.

.
On what basis do you make this assertion that the falling one gets damaged than the stationary one.?
.

So now can anyone tell me why the soft mushy human bodies would react differently than the cinder blocks?

.
Cinder blocks are brittle aggregates.
Humans are composites of soft (muscle & fat), intermediate (tendons & ligaments, i.e., collagen) and hard (bone) structures.
.

That's how the JREF cult dishonesty works. Say something that seems to make sense unless you actually think about it and hope no one will think about it.

.
Wrong, Steve. If you want to discuss what is really happening, feel free to respond to this post, in which I presented a general approximation to what must have happened.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4743226#post4743226

The short version of why the collision preferentially destroyed the lower portion rather than the upper block is:

1. By the time the upper block hits any floor, over 2/3rds of that floors supports have been destroyed. The remaining 1/3rd is massively damaged.

2. as soon as debris is knocked free from the structure, it begins to fall. When the upper block collides with the debris layer, the relative velocity is the falling block velocity minus the falling debris velocity. When the debris layer collides with the lower block, the relative velocity was the speed of the falling upper block. The collisions with the lower block are more energetic and more severe than the collisions with the upper block.

3. the initial failure turns one entire floor (the 98th in the case of WTC1) into debris. Plus 2/3rds of the 99th & 97th. Plus 1/3rd of the 100th & 96th. The 99th & 100th floor debris falls WITH the upper block. The 98th, 97th & 96th floor debris falls AWAY FROM the stationary remaining structure. The initial collision is the 99th floor, plus the weights of the the 3 to 6 floors above (transmitted thru the columns) landing on the 1/3rd remaining 97th floor.

4. the debris impacts into, and provides support for, the upper structure. This happens over the course of about 3 to 6 stories of fall. After debris fully impacts the upper block, then you really do have the entire upper block (13 stories plus X floors of debris) impacting each top floor. When these impacts occur, each top floor is already 2/3rds destroyed.

5. the debris builds up underneath the upper block, and protects it from the collisions, which happen at the BOTTOM of the debris layer, while the upper block rides down on the TOP of the debris layer.

These are the reasons that upper block is protected from destruction, while the lower section is not.

I'll wait to see if you have a cogent reply. Or if you just wave your hands and ignore all of this.

Tom

 

[Heiwa]

My findings can be found within post 1963

Part "C' the antenna array. drops on part "'A" the tower support element and destroys the TV tower completely. To the point of falling steel embedding itself so deep into the earth that it cannot be extracted and is simply cut off 2 feet below the surface and abandoned during the clean up.

It looks like the part C drops first beside part A and hits ground. When part A is destroyed is not clear. So no one-way crush down of part A by part C as I am concerned.

 

[A W Smith]

Didnt you get Bill smith's memo Anders?

It looks like the part C drops first beside part A and hits ground. When part A is destroyed is not clear. So no one-way crush down of part A by part C as I am concerned.

The antenna array falls and cuts one guy cable almost a quarter mile high up as it drops. The tower of steel which of course is stronger at the bottom than at the top and can clearly support its own weight {bill smith axiom} even with scores of cables pulling down on it. inexplicably buckles and collapses into itself.

 

[beachnut]

...
Faulty Towers of Belief: Part I. Demolishing the Iconic Psychological Barriers to 9/11 Truth

and

Faulty Towers of Belief: Part II. Rebuilding the Road to Freedom of Reason

Try reading those 2 and you might start to understand why some people buy into the fairy tale that is the "Official Conspiracy Theory", why others will not bother to even look at the evidence, and why some people are extremely angry and vocal toward people who do not buy into the Official fairy tale.

You paid shills need to come forward now and dismiss these 2 papers quickly before the cult followers start reading them.

Paid shills? Another lie.

Dismiss the papers? Gee whiz the dolt paper is not about evidence of 911 it is evidence about people with failed ideas which he projects on to other people who don't believe the way he believes; just like you do. The author thinks the evidence supporting 19 terrorist crashed 4 planes is fake. He thinks his delusions based on his moronic opinions and faulty belief system are correct and transfers his failure to comprehend due to his physiological barriers to evidence to those who think his delusions on 911 are wrong.
Heiwa uses the same faulty logic for his failed conclusions.

LOL, ...

What he said was that no matter from what height, that top section could not crush down the bottom section, and he's right.

Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom section sure enough but not before the top section itself gets vaporized. Same thing with your 2 mile scenario. What Heiwa said to that was that the top section would be itself destroyed before the bottom section was completely destroyed, but it would be destroyed if dropped from a high enough height.

Again the top section gets destroyed first and no further "crush down" occurs. The rest of the building would be destroyed not because of any crush down but because of the sheer force of the impact from a 2 mile height.

This was obvious to anyone with even a shred of honesty.

...

Heiwa is not right he is delusional on 911. No one has come forward to support the failed ideas of Heiwa. Instead of earning a Pulitzer Prize for the biggest story in history we have failed engineering on display.

Is "Yogi" Berra your logic mentor?
[/quote]… Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom …[/quote] You say the top part would vaporize the bottom part? But it would not before vaporizing itself first, so then it can’t vaporize the bottom part, but you said it would be vaporized by the top. WHAT!!!!!??????

You come with opinions when you need physics and engineering. This is not an opinion debate it is physics and engineering. Go to a physics teacher, go to an engineering school and learn. You don’t need to be an engineer to understand 911 you need logic, knowledge and sound judgment.

Heiwa is wrong. Heiwa’s delusion includes explosives or thermite to destroy the WTC. He ignores the kinetic energy from gravity alone exceeded 130 TONS of TNT per tower. This is why the towers were destroyed after they began to fall. Does Heiwa tell you the energy of each tower collapsing exceeded 130 TONS of TNT; like a building being bombed with 2000 pound bombs 130 times! Wake up to the energy and the too complex thing call math and physics!

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of the jet fuel in each jet exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy!?

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of each fire in the WTC exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy?

The initial impacts were 1300 and 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic the energy events and you fail to understand how they damaged the WTC, destroyed fire proofing and rendered the fire systems useless. You apologize for murders by adopting the lies of Heiwa without evidence and offer zero calculations to go with your wild speculation in support of the top moronic conclusion on 911 pushed by the fraud and zero engineering efforts of Heiwa.

You fell for the fraud of Heiwa WHY? Is it due to massive ignorance on engineering, math and physics? Why do you blame JREF for making it too hard to understand? You are whining because engineering is too hard and you blame JREF. Why do you offer no engineering concepts on this issue? Heiwa makes up lies about engineering and you accept them without hesitation. Can’t you do the calculations to check the lies? Why do you fail to see Heiwa did zero calculations to manufacture the lies out of thin air?

 

[bill smith]

Paid shills? Another lie.

Dismiss the papers? Gee whiz the dolt paper is not about evidence of 911 it is evidence about people with failed ideas which he projects on to other people who don't believe the way he believes; just like you do. The author thinks the evidence supporting 19 terrorist crashed 4 planes is fake. He thinks his delusions based on his moronic opinions and faulty belief system are correct and transfers his failure to comprehend due to his physiological barriers to evidence to those who think his delusions on 911 are wrong.
Heiwa uses the same faulty logic for his failed conclusions.



Heiwa is not right he is delusional on 911. No one has come forward to support the failed ideas of Heiwa. Instead of earning a Pulitzer Prize for the biggest story in history we have failed engineering on display.

Is "Yogi" Berra your logic mentor?

… Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom …[/quote] You say the top part would vaporize the bottom part? But it would not before vaporizing itself first, so then it can’t vaporize the bottom part, but you said it would be vaporized by the top. WHAT!!!!!??????

You come with opinions when you need physics and engineering. This is not an opinion debate it is physics and engineering. Go to a physics teacher, go to an engineering school and learn. You don’t need to be an engineer to understand 911 you need logic, knowledge and sound judgment.

Heiwa is wrong. Heiwa’s delusion includes explosives or thermite to destroy the WTC. He ignores the kinetic energy from gravity alone exceeded 130 TONS of TNT per tower. This is why the towers were destroyed after they began to fall. Does Heiwa tell you the energy of each tower collapsing exceeded 130 TONS of TNT; like a building being bombed with 2000 pound bombs 130 times! Wake up to the energy and the too complex thing call math and physics!

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of the jet fuel in each jet exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy!?

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of each fire in the WTC exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy?

The initial impacts were 1300 and 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic the energy events and you fail to understand how they damaged the WTC, destroyed fire proofing and rendered the fire systems useless. You apologize for murders by adopting the lies of Heiwa without evidence and offer zero calculations to go with your wild speculation in support of the top moronic conclusion on 911 pushed by the fraud and zero engineering efforts of Heiwa.

You fell for the fraud of Heiwa WHY? Is it due to massive ignorance on engineering, math and physics? Why do you blame JREF for making it too hard to understand? You are whining because engineering is too hard and you blame JREF. Why do you offer no engineering concepts on this issue? Heiwa makes up lies about engineering and you accept them without hesitation. Can’t you do the calculations to check the lies? Why do you fail to see Heiwa did zero calculations to manufacture the lies out of thin air? [/QUOTE]

What do you think would happen ifhe 10% was stationary two miles up in the sky and the bottom 90% took off like a rocket and smashed into it at say 800 mph ?

Which would survive ? How different are the physics ?

 

[bill smith]

Paid shills? Another lie.

Dismiss the papers? Gee whiz the dolt paper is not about evidence of 911 it is evidence about people with failed ideas which he projects on to other people who don't believe the way he believes; just like you do. The author thinks the evidence supporting 19 terrorist crashed 4 planes is fake. He thinks his delusions based on his moronic opinions and faulty belief system are correct and transfers his failure to comprehend due to his physiological barriers to evidence to those who think his delusions on 911 are wrong.
Heiwa uses the same faulty logic for his failed conclusions.



Heiwa is not right he is delusional on 911. No one has come forward to support the failed ideas of Heiwa. Instead of earning a Pulitzer Prize for the biggest story in history we have failed engineering on display.

Is "Yogi" Berra your logic mentor?

… Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom …[/quote] You say the top part would vaporize the bottom part? But it would not before vaporizing itself first, so then it can’t vaporize the bottom part, but you said it would be vaporized by the top. WHAT!!!!!??????

You come with opinions when you need physics and engineering. This is not an opinion debate it is physics and engineering. Go to a physics teacher, go to an engineering school and learn. You don’t need to be an engineer to understand 911 you need logic, knowledge and sound judgment.

Heiwa is wrong. Heiwa’s delusion includes explosives or thermite to destroy the WTC. He ignores the kinetic energy from gravity alone exceeded 130 TONS of TNT per tower. This is why the towers were destroyed after they began to fall. Does Heiwa tell you the energy of each tower collapsing exceeded 130 TONS of TNT; like a building being bombed with 2000 pound bombs 130 times! Wake up to the energy and the too complex thing call math and physics!

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of the jet fuel in each jet exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy!?

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of each fire in the WTC exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy?

The initial impacts were 1300 and 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic the energy events and you fail to understand how they damaged the WTC, destroyed fire proofing and rendered the fire systems useless. You apologize for murders by adopting the lies of Heiwa without evidence and offer zero calculations to go with your wild speculation in support of the top moronic conclusion on 911 pushed by the fraud and zero engineering efforts of Heiwa.

You fell for the fraud of Heiwa WHY? Is it due to massive ignorance on engineering, math and physics? Why do you blame JREF for making it too hard to understand? You are whining because engineering is too hard and you blame JREF. Why do you offer no engineering concepts on this issue? Heiwa makes up lies about engineering and you accept them without hesitation. Can’t you do the calculations to check the lies? Why do you fail to see Heiwa did zero calculations to manufacture the lies out of thin air? [/QUOTE]

Deleted sorry Beachnut

 

[bill smith]

… Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom …

You say the top part would vaporize the bottom part? But it would not before vaporizing itself first, so then it can’t vaporize the bottom part, but you said it would be vaporized by the top. WHAT!!!!!?????? [/FONT][/COLOR]

You come with opinions when you need physics and engineering. This is not an opinion debate it is physics and engineering. Go to a physics teacher, go to an engineering school and learn. You don’t need to be an engineer to understand 911 you need logic, knowledge and sound judgment.

Heiwa is wrong. Heiwa’s delusion includes explosives or thermite to destroy the WTC. He ignores the kinetic energy from gravity alone exceeded 130 TONS of TNT per tower. This is why the towers were destroyed after they began to fall. Does Heiwa tell you the energy of each tower collapsing exceeded 130 TONS of TNT; like a building being bombed with 2000 pound bombs 130 times! Wake up to the energy and the too complex thing call math and physics!

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of the jet fuel in each jet exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy!?

Why do you need TNT or thermite when the heat energy of each fire in the WTC exceeded 300 TONS of TNT heat energy?

The initial impacts were 1300 and 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic the energy events and you fail to understand how they damaged the WTC, destroyed fire proofing and rendered the fire systems useless. You apologize for murders by adopting the lies of Heiwa without evidence and offer zero calculations to go with your wild speculation in support of the top moronic conclusion on 911 pushed by the fraud and zero engineering efforts of Heiwa.

You fell for the fraud of Heiwa WHY? Is it due to massive ignorance on engineering, math and physics? Why do you blame JREF for making it too hard to understand? You are whining because engineering is too hard and you blame JREF. Why do you offer no engineering concepts on this issue? Heiwa makes up lies about engineering and you accept them without hesitation. Can’t you do the calculations to check the lies? Why do you fail to see Heiwa did zero calculations to manufacture the lies out of thin air? [/QUOTE]

What do you think would happen if the 10% was stationary two miles up in the sky and the bottom 90% took off like a rocket and smashed into it at say 800 mph ?

Which would survive ? How different are the physics ?[/QUOTE]

Hmmm? something funny going on.

 

[bill smith]

What do you think would happen if the 10% was stationary two miles up in the sky and the bottom 90% took off like a rocket and smashed into it at say 800 mph ?

Which would survive ? How different are the physics ?

 

[dtugg]

It looks like no-planer-bs is having severe problems today.

 

[bill smith]

It looks like no-planer-bs is having severe problems today.

Yeah...I don't know what was going on there.

 

[dtugg]

Yeah...I don't know what was going on there.

It's probably a conspiracy against you.