The Heiwa Challenge

[bill smith]

This is a surprisingly accurate analogy.

Given that Jones' pants should be on fire.

lol

 

[nicepants]

Bill -

Given your statement below:

When one tenth of a structure crushes down the other nine-tenths of a structure by gravity alone T.I don't need any engineer to tell me spmething is seriously skewed.

I'm interested in your answer to the following:

When the collapse reached the 10th floor, how many tenths of the structure were crushing it?

 

[A W Smith]

When one tenth of a structure crushes down the other nine-tenths of a structure by gravity alone T.I don't need any engineer to tell me spmething is seriously skewed.

So you can explain all you like but until you can come up with any structure, big or small in the entire history of this Planet in which the top and lightest one-tenth crushed the other and stronger nine-enths down flat on the ground by gravity alone you will be 100% disregarded.

Here's one

 

[SteveAustin]

I am an engineer. What do you do, Steve?

I've taught this stuff (Engineering Dynamics) to college-level engineering students.

Every competent engineer in the world understands EXACTLY where Heiwa's analysis falls apart. We've explained it 8 ways to Sunday.

The fact is that YOU (& bill, & probably a few others) are incapable of understanding what we've explained.

The comments that you've made make it PERFECTLY CLEAR that you have zero concept of what Newton's 3rd law is or how to apply it.

Nobody decides "a priori" to consider the upper block to be indestructible. The situation is ASYMMETRIC. It is asymmetric due to gravity. One piece is above the other piece, and when pieces get knocked free, they do NOT fall upwards & impact the upper piece!! How difficult is this to understand??

You lay on the floor. Your twin brother jumps on you from a height of 12 feet. It's a collision. Both you & your twin are the same, weigh the same, have the same muscle & bone content.

Why does he walk away from the collision & you lie there with broken ribs??

Put your arrogance away, Steve. You don't have the chops to determine what is, and is not, "fraudulent" in this discussion.

Tom

Or you could instead take 2 cinder blocks and place one on the ground and lift the other one up say about 15 feet and drop it on the other one. What happens? The block you dropped gets smashed and takes more damage than the block that was lying on the ground.

So now can anyone tell me why the soft mushy human bodies would react differently than the cinder blocks? That's how the JREF cult dishonesty works. Say something that seems to make sense unless you actually think about it and hope no one will think about it.

 

[funk de fino]

Or you could instead take 2 cinder blocks and place one on the ground and lift the other one up say about 15 feet and drop it on the other one. What happens? The block you dropped gets smashed and takes more damage than the block that was lying on the ground.

So now can anyone tell me why the soft mushy human bodies would react differently than the cinder blocks? That's how the JREF cult dishonesty works. Say something that seems to make sense unless you actually think about it and hope no one will think about it.

Cluelessness and arrogance. A nice combination. Your mother would be proud.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Or you could instead take 2 cinder blocks and place one on the ground and lift the other one up say about 15 feet and drop it on the other one. What happens? The block you dropped gets smashed and takes more damage than the block that was lying on the ground.

So now can anyone tell me why the soft mushy human bodies would react differently than the cinder blocks? That's how the JREF cult dishonesty works. Say something that seems to make sense unless you actually think about it and hope no one will think about it.

When I bought my house there were some 12" CMU blocks up on my 1-story roof. I threw them off because I didn't like the extra weight on my flat-roof.

Most of them broken when they hit the grass in the backyard. CMU is stronger than grass and unconsolidated soil. I think someone planted thermite in my CMU blocks.

I threw one off and it hit an unbroken CMU block on the grass. The one that I threw didn't break and the one on the ground did. OMG WTF!@!!1eleventy.

 

[SteveAustin]

You've been caught lying again. Thirteen floors crushed one floor, and added its mass. Then fourteen floors crushed one, and added its mass. You know the drill, Bill.

It's over.

You seem to be saying here that the top section is still one intact piece, unbroken, maybe, just maybe a little damaged! If this is so please provide your evidence that this is what happens!

Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying that as the top section breaks apart the pieces continue to fall down through the path of greatest resistance instead of bouncing out the sides?

 

[funk de fino]

You seem to be saying here that the top section is still one intact piece, unbroken, maybe, just maybe a little damaged! If this is so please provide your evidence that this is what happens!

Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying that as the top section breaks apart the pieces continue to fall down through the path of greatest resistance instead of bouncing out the sides?

Watch HD footage of the tower collapses, not the junk youtube truther nonsense. You can see the top section falling into the lower section while still pretty much intact.

What makes things bounce sideways?

 

[nicepants]

You seem to be saying here that the top section is still one intact piece, unbroken, maybe, just maybe a little damaged! If this is so please provide your evidence that this is what happens!

Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying that as the top section breaks apart the pieces continue to fall down through the path of greatest resistance instead of bouncing out the sides?

How are you determining which "path" has the least resistance? And in what units are you measuring it?

 

[BigAl]

You seem to be saying here that the top section is still one intact piece, unbroken, maybe, just maybe a little damaged! If this is so please provide your evidence that this is what happens!

Whatever you think those words mean, this 2 minute video shows what did happen. Deal with it. It's a close-up of the collapse zone showing the beams of the lower part bending as the top falls. The original audio is there and no demolition explosions can be heard.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5405555553528290546

 

[FineWine]

Or you could instead take 2 cinder blocks and place one on the ground and lift the other one up say about 15 feet and drop it on the other one. What happens? The block you dropped gets smashed and takes more damage than the block that was lying on the ground.

So now can anyone tell me why the soft mushy human bodies would react differently than the cinder blocks? That's how the JREF cult dishonesty works. Say something that seems to make sense unless you actually think about it and hope no one will think about it.

Heiwa believes that if you lift the top third of a skyscraper two miles into space and drop it onto the rest of the building, a "new equilibrium" results. There is no significant damage. Now, his contention is utterly mad. I will not insult you by asking if you agree with him.

The mindless cult you serve ignores real science, as it must to preserve its absurd fantasies. It must give you pause, however, to reflect on the total lack of support your insane movement has received from scientists and engineers in nations unfriendly to the U.S. Tell us why absolutely no one in the world's scientific and engineering communities can find the "errors" in the NIST reports that are so obvious to agenda-driven, low-IQ, adolescent know-nothings.

 

[FineWine]

You seem to be saying here that the top section is still one intact piece, unbroken, maybe, just maybe a little damaged! If this is so please provide your evidence that this is what happens!

Is this what you are saying? Or are you saying that as the top section breaks apart the pieces continue to fall down through the path of greatest resistance instead of bouncing out the sides?

As soon as you start writing that "down" is the path of "greatest" resistance, you should stop and think a bit. There is a clue that you're overlooking. Yes, as the original thirteen collapsing floors fall on top of the floor directly below, small amounts of debris escape. The mass of those thirteen floors, for the most part, falls onto that floor below, crushing it and adding its mass.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Let's just say if collapses were purely dependent upon arbitrary proportions or fractions (choose your favorite word) of the entire building falling on itself, then clearly all of the hype that goes into building codes about designing for unanticipated loading, and eccentric loading has been for nothing all this time. I suggest steveaustin, bill smith, et al stop their silly games and take action to question code enforcement why these are crucial considerations for design and take appropriate action if they are irrelevant. Because by claiming they know factually that x percentage of building cannot progress the entire height to the ground, they're also suggesting that all variations of eccentric loading are irrelevant to a building's structural integrity.

I await the results of their inquiry.

 

[SteveAustin]

Heiwa believes that if you lift the top third of a skyscraper two miles into space and drop it onto the rest of the building, a "new equilibrium" results. There is no significant damage. Now, his contention is utterly mad. I will not insult you by asking if you agree with him.

LOL, more dishonesty from the JREF cult. Heiwa never said that, the JREF cult (which includes you) decided to interpret it that way because it's fits your agenda.

What he said was that no matter from what height, that top section could not crush down the bottom section, and he's right.

Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom section sure enough but not before the top section itself gets vaporized. Same thing with your 2 mile scenario. What Heiwa said to that was that the top section would be itself destroyed before the bottom section was completely destroyed, but it would be destroyed if dropped from a high enough height.

Again the top section gets destroyed first and no further "crush down" occurs. The rest of the building would be destroyed not because of any crush down but because of the sheer force of the impact from a 2 mile height.

This was obvious to anyone with even a shred of honesty.

The mindless cult you serve ignores real science, as it must to preserve its absurd fantasies. It must give you pause, however, to reflect on the total lack of support your insane movement has received from scientists and engineers in nations unfriendly to the U.S. Tell us why absolutely no one in the world's scientific and engineering communities can find the "errors" in the NIST reports that are so obvious to agenda-driven, low-IQ, adolescent know-nothings.

Are you calling me a low-IQ, adolescent know-nothing? That is a personal attack on a member of JREF. I'm not surprised as I see this in every other post by the JREF cult members.

It also fits with someone who knows he does not have truth on his side.

Here try to wrap your head around these 2 documents (I know, I know, I'm really asking a lot from you here, but at least try)

Faulty Towers of Belief: Part I. Demolishing the Iconic Psychological Barriers to 9/11 Truth

and

Faulty Towers of Belief: Part II. Rebuilding the Road to Freedom of Reason

Try reading those 2 and you might start to understand why some people buy into the fairy tale that is the "Official Conspiracy Theory", why others will not bother to even look at the evidence, and why some people are extremely angry and vocal toward people who do not buy into the Official fairy tale.

You paid shills need to come forward now and dismiss these 2 papers quickly before the cult followers start reading them.

 

[SteveAustin]

How are you determining which "path" has the least resistance? And in what units are you measuring it?

ROFL, that is a very dishonest question. The reason it is dishonest is because you are asking this question to cover the truth of the facts.

The path of least resistance is to fall off the building, fall away and to the sides.

The path of greatest resistance is to fall straight down through those many many thousands of tons of steel and concrete.

Tell me, does the top section remain intact through the entire explosive collapse to the ground? Or does it break up into many many smaller pieces that could then easily tumble away over the side through the path of least resistance?

 

[Newtons Bit]

LOL, more dishonesty from the JREF cult. Heiwa never said that, the JREF cult (which includes you) decided to interpret it that way because it's fits your agenda.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3825166&postcount=166

What he said was that no matter from what height, that top section could not crush down the bottom section, and he's right.

So if the upper block is "dropped" from a distance of 100,000 miles and is travelling at a velocity of 10,000mph when it impacts, it won't destroy the lower block?!?

 

[DC]

airresistance would rip it appart at that speed and it would not hit the lower block

 

[Heiwa]

I am an engineer.

Every competent engineer in the world understands EXACTLY where Heiwa's analysis falls apart. We've explained it 8 ways to Sunday.

The situation is ASYMMETRIC. It is asymmetric due to gravity. One piece is above the other piece, and when pieces get knocked free, they do NOT fall upwards & impact the upper piece!! How difficult is this to understand??


Tom

Yes, Tom, it is clear that pieces do not fall upwards, etc, etc, but forces are a different matter.

Take yourself. Say you have a mass m. Your mass is subject to the gravity force and the result is that you/m is pulled towards planet Earth with its mass. You should be happy for that! Otherwise you would just fly away and bye, bye.

Actually you/m also pull the planet Earth towards you due to your gravity force. Yes, you are attractive. Imagine that. You pulling the Earth!

Now, when you and planet Earth meet due to this mutual attraction, an equilibrium develops. You with your m, lets call it part C, apply a force F on the Earth, let's call it part A, and ... yes, planet Earth apply a force -F on you. I am happy to say that you, part C, will not yet one-way crush down part A.

But we can try! Thus you/m/part C climb a ladder and JUMP! You will then experience a moment of free fall and then you will impact part A. For a short while you/part C will apply a BIG IMPACT FORCE FBIG on part A, and part A will, likewise apply force -FBIG on you. After a short moment FBIG and -FBIG disappear and you are back to status quo; you apply F on planet Earth that applies -F on you

Now, a test! You are an engineer. Where did forces FBIG and -FBIG end up after your jump?

If you know the answer to that question, you will soon be able to find out the solution of The Heiwa Challenge.

 

[SteveAustin]

LOL, more dishonesty from the JREF cult. Heiwa never said that, the JREF cult (which includes you) decided to interpret it that way because it's fits your agenda.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3825166&postcount=166

What he said was that no matter from what height, that top section could not crush down the bottom section, and he's right.

So if the upper block is "dropped" from a distance of 100,000 miles and is travelling at a velocity of 10,000mph when it impacts, it won't destroy the lower block?!?

LOL, you are quote mining so that you can misrepresent what I said, just like you did with Heiwa on this particular topic..

Had you quoted the very next paragraph of mine you will see that your attempt to misrepresent what I said falls apart completely, here...

Take that top section high enough and give it enough speed and it will vaporize the bottom section sure enough but not before the top section itself gets vaporized. Same thing with your 2 mile scenario. What Heiwa said to that was that the top section would be itself destroyed before the bottom section was completely destroyed, but it would be destroyed if dropped from a high enough height.

Again the top section gets destroyed first and no further "crush down" occurs. The rest of the building would be destroyed not because of any crush down but because of the sheer force of the impact from a 2 mile height.

This was obvious to anyone with even a shred of honesty.

This is perfect proof of the dishonesty of the JREF cult!

 

[newton3376]

When one tenth of a structure crushes down the other nine-tenths of a structure by gravity alone T.I don't need any engineer to tell me spmething is seriously skewed.

You aren't qualified to make this assessment.

So you can explain all you like but until you can come up with any structure, big or small in the entire history of this Planet in which the top and lightest one-tenth crushed the other and stronger nine-enths down flat on the ground by gravity alone you will be 100% disregarded.

Nope....

You aren't qualified Bill.