The Gospel
- Thread starter kurious_kathy
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Pauliesonne
Bi Gi
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on a cold day, nothing can beat it.
Elind
Philosopher
Sigh: KK Said words to the effect that Muslims should try to accept Christ without fear. I said they already do, and asked her, in effect, what the hell was her point, unless she thinks she believes in a different god, or is it the rituals that matter more than the beliefs.
Of course she hasn't answered.
Your move
Czarzy
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 293
kurious_kathy:
IF: what you say is true IS TRUE, including "All of creation sings His praises!",
THEN: that PROVES that (at least some) human beings were not created, as I am a human being who definitely does not "sing His praises".
I don't even hum them.
Or even mumble them
IF: what you say is true IS TRUE, including "All of creation sings His praises!",
THEN: that PROVES that (at least some) human beings were not created, as I am a human being who definitely does not "sing His praises".
I don't even hum them.
Or even mumble them
Elind
Philosopher
Good for you, but it is people who read the bible too much who think God has hidden clues that only the smartest can figure out, and those that do will get the waterfront apartments in heaven.
Why does everything this chap do, have to be a secret or obscure. what is the point?
eg..
god works in mysterious ways.
we don't know when he is coming until he turns up.
only god knows why your three year old child died of cancer etc etc...
his tsunami killed all those people because they did something wrong but we aren't sure what it was.
what benefit for him is there in not telling us these things. does he sit up there on his big throne going "na na na, i know something you don't".
surely he can tell us via all of these people who know him so well.
Kathy, why don't you do me a favour and ask him a couple of questions for me. I mean you obviously have some sort of contact with him otherwise how could you have found him.
Say, "PBTree wants to know why you are so secretive" and if he answers, ask him when he is coming. I want to fire up the barbeque and welcome him in true Australian style.
let me know what he says, in case i have to get to the supermarket before it shuts.
Elind
Philosopher
Originally Posted by kurious_kathy:
I think Edge did a wonderful job posting info that is greatly needed to wake some of you up to reality. God is not only real but very much alive and active in our world.
All of creation sings His praises! Thankyou Edge for all this info. you have shared. I know I really appreciate it!
Oh and Tricky just for your info I do not think I need anyone but Jesus to defend me, although I do appreciate having another believer on board. And he's so well educated too! I thank God for you Edge, and all my other brothers and sisters in Christ!!
Kathy, Edge is insane. You are not yet insane, just a bit crazy, but if you think he's cool, you will be there with him soon enough.
OK then. Well said. Although I'm not sure that Muslims accept "Christ" as such, albeit that they revere Jesus. They don't believe that Jesus was God at any rate - which is an important belief for Christians - so you might say that the beliefs as well as the rituals differ.
Really, is it because I believe people with more credentals than you?
Wow a skeptic using the bible, see you know your stuff..
If you don’t believe then you have been fooled by Satan, and then what are you?
I never specifically called anyone a fool.
I typed what you think is prick which means something that sticks you, how do know for sure that’s what it represents and not Protestant?
You are judging, and assume the worst of meanings I’m sure.
You see I put the symbols there, so how could you really know? Unless I tell you what it represents?
Let’s get to the accusation of plagiarizing.
That sounds worst than an accusation of being a fool?
This is the letter I received today.
Everything That I posted was in compliance with the sites.
Some of these ideas by others are more than a paragraph long.
I post the whole main idea and like I said it is the tip of the iceberg.
And for instance, one that’s followed with a link like John P. Marcus who has a paragraph of just his credentials.
What is there, is testimonial 18, that means there are at least 17 more reads like that one.
In other words way more to read. Way more evidence.
Then I wrote Lisa back,
Her answer,
<>
Well if you took time to read into the links you’ll find that they are a very long read with the exception of one.
This is about suppression.
Funny how you took all of the relevant stuff out.
Just when it got to the point of interest, the main gist.
Most of these are for you anyway Kathy, those others won’t read it all anyway.
They will read to a part, where they can manipulate the meaning and stop.
I know that you and a few others see what’s going on.
This thread is in the exact location it needs to be in but they don’t want to let you talk about it here either.
Very selfish if I say so myself. You have the blind making sure that they stay blind in here.
I post relevant things but they are allowed a whole page that is blank, then at the bottom he or she calls out Moron.
Wow how bias.
If you want more links let me know in here.
I can E-mail them or post them for you.
_
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Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Edge, first of all, the guys from U2 are calling. They want you to drop the handle you're using. Pick another nick.
Secondly, you seem to groove on shooting off your mouth, so to speak. Permit me to repeat, once more, why I am here. Maybe you might learn something from this. Perhaps Kathy might as well. I'm hopeful, but I'm not naive.
Very few people on this board know what kind of a person I was before 1982, which is when I finally accepted Christ. Trust me: there was a reason I was going through a divorce, and was being tossed out of the U.S. Army at the time. Some people think they're SOBs. I was probably one of the worst of the worst.
I will not make excuses for my behavior. There isn't one. I threatened people with violence, and actually got violent with some. I was very lucky I didn't find myself at the Mannheim Detention facility, on my way to Fort Leavenworth. I was put out of the military on a Chapter 13 discharge, Unsatisfactory Performance, which allowed me a General Discharge, instead of the Dishonorable I probably well deserved.
Do me a favor and re-read this first part over again. I want you to understand something: I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS! My father had lots of friends in positions of authority in the Board of Military Review. Had I only asked, I could have had my discharge upgraded to an Honorable. I have declined this for over 20 years because I did not earn an Honorable Discharge. It led to a rift between my Dad and I which was not healed when he died in November of 2000.
Accepting Christ meant something far different for me than what it seems to mean to you and Kathy. For me, after reading and rereading the Bible, cover to cover, I realized that if I were to call myself a Christian, I had to accept my responsibility for what I did to others. It meant making phone calls and trying to send letters to people I hurt, to apologize, to tell them I was the one responsible for their misery. I was the one at fault, not them.
I had years and years of bad examples, of people who demonstrated to me hateful and evil actions. I learned very well how to hate, how to break, how to destroy. I was very, very good at it. In leaving that behind by becoming a Christian, I had to relearn everything, not the least of which included remembering that for most people, if there's something worth criticizing, there's also something worth praising. It meant that instead of looking for what was wrong about someone, I had to look for what was right. It meant that maybe your mother was right after all: If you couldn't say something nice, you ought to keep your mouth shut. It meant I had to offer to help, rather than belittle and berate. It meant I had to change my attitude, my direction, my belief about myself, and about others.
It was a very difficult thing, learning that I was not anywhere near as important as I thought I was, and coming to the realization that such an attitude was a cover for what I'd been taught by my parents my whole life. I had to learn to put others ahead of myself. I can tell you this: I've been a hell of a lot happier since I learned to humble myself, and accept that I'm not as smart, I'm not as important, I'm not as good looking, I'm not anything near what I thought I am. I'm just one more mutt in this world, and I have a choice: I can make things worse, or I can make them better.
Accepting Christ was one step towards a more factual view of who and what I was. However, it was costly. Others within the Church do not share my view of what it means to be a Christian, so I found I was on the outside nearly all the time. I wanted to put together a food closet, at the very least, to help the hungry in our community. I wanted to serve in any capacity I could. I found out that being a divorced man, married to a divorced woman in a Protestant Church in the U.S. is tantamount to wearing a t-shirt with "666" on the front. We were told there was no place for us.
Let me tell you something, Edge, Kathy, and others: I had warning sign after warning sign that I was in the wrong place. The one thing that should have set off every warning bell was any discussion of "stewardship." You need to tithe, they kept telling us, but they didn't want to show us how to do that when you're working for near minimum wage.
Ah, yes, tithing! Give money to God. God doesn't need the money, but you and I need the discipline of giving it. Never mind that if I give my 10%, in doing so, my kids do without little luxuries like food, clothing, and possibly shelter. Just keep giving money to God, and He will take care of you!
Except that isn't what happened. Ever.
I lost track of the times I wound up raiding the dumpster at work, or near the apartment where we lived for a while, so Peggy and my younger two sons would have enough real food to eat. We tithed. And we suffered. For what?
Don't even ask how Peggy was treated. I never saw anyone put up with so much toxic slop, all in the name of serving God. Peggy gave and gave of herself, and was slighted by pastors and deacons, by women's ministry leaders, and by so many others. Because, God forbid, she was divorced.
I don't know how much of this I discussed on the board when I first got here. I can tell you that becoming a truck driver changed a number of things for me, not the least of which is that I learned you have to work from the way things really are, not how you want them to be. Tough lesson, but necessary. By the time I got here, I'd already put nearly one million miles on the road, and had learned just how little I really knew.
One person who understood the changes I was going through was Rikzilla. He was the one who recommended to me that I check out this board. I did, coming here, as I said at the outset, to learn. I'm still learning.
I came to Christ to gain a factual knowledge of how to be a better man. And a few years ago, I would have told you that by coming to know Christ, He made me a better man.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I'm wondering if, in fact, the reason I changed was that I saw good people I could use as an example, people who were avatars, if you will, of what I wanted to be, and modified my behavior to fit. I wonder if, in fact, as I read my Bible, I saw good examples of what I could be, and changed not because of the power of the Holy Spirit, but by my own will.
The Church had lied to me time and again about so much. I began to wonder if they'd lied to me about the existence of God.
It wouldn't surprise me. Atheists were supposed to be such miserable people, yet I knew a lot of pretty happy atheists. Agnostics were supposed to be lacking in spiritual direction, but most of the agnostics I knew were better centered than most Christians.
The kicker? Most of the Atheists and Agnostics could let their yes be yes, and their no be no. I don't know too many Christians who can manage to pull even that meager feat off.
See, Kathy, you keep apologizing, but your behavior does not change. You have yet to really acknowledge the pain you've inflicted on others. You sidestep it, then wonder why people here get pissed off. Edge, you're in the same boat. And yes, Tricky is one of the most compassionate people on this board, but trust me, you do not want to irritate him, especially by playing the games you are playing now. Because with that great compassion is great justice. Something to think about.
See, the people here have become my friends. They tell me when I'm wrong, but do so without humiliating me. They tell me when I'm right, and temper my pride when they do. They encourage me when I'm hurting, they heal me when I'm broken. They do what the Church was supposed to do. And they do so without God.
If the Church lied about service, accepting personal responsibility, and tithing, what else did they lie about? I started checking the facts, and I find I cannot completely accept the Bible as I once did. The facts do not support what I read. Perhaps, (and those who know me here know how hard this is to say), there is no God at all. Perhaps once I'm gone, my spirit, such as it was, will fade away with my body. And perhaps, that just might be for the best.
With your outbursts, you remind me just how rare truly devout Christians are in this world. I'm married to one. When she talks to me about what she believes, I want to believe it, too, if only for the idea, the dream, that when we leave this life, I will see her again. I love Peggy that much.
As you rage, preach, belittle, and drone on, you remind me that there was reason I left the Church. I've learned, in the meantime, that what I did not get from the Church and God I found here. While you and others obsess about the End Times, awaiting a Rapture that is unlikely to come, (and frankly, I find the idea of a Pre-Trib Rapture more than a little selfish and apallingly cruel), there are those who want nothing more than an opportunity to serve others. If Jesus were to come tomorrow, He would not find these people waiting for Him; rather they'd be doing what He told the two of you to be doing. Life is to be lived, and part of living is helping others live better lives. It's something you might want to think about.
I've said too many goodbyes to good people over the past few years. I had the privalege of knowing some great souls, and I regret those that I drove away with my zeal to see them "Saved." Perhaps if I had kept silent, instead of growing enamored of my own voice, I might have gained friends, rather than wasted my time trying for converts.
Paul said that he wanted to know only Christ, and Him Crucified. I wonder if I even know that much, or if it's even true anymore. I doubt you will have an answer for me, and further question whether you'll listen long enough to even try.
Secondly, you seem to groove on shooting off your mouth, so to speak. Permit me to repeat, once more, why I am here. Maybe you might learn something from this. Perhaps Kathy might as well. I'm hopeful, but I'm not naive.
Very few people on this board know what kind of a person I was before 1982, which is when I finally accepted Christ. Trust me: there was a reason I was going through a divorce, and was being tossed out of the U.S. Army at the time. Some people think they're SOBs. I was probably one of the worst of the worst.
I will not make excuses for my behavior. There isn't one. I threatened people with violence, and actually got violent with some. I was very lucky I didn't find myself at the Mannheim Detention facility, on my way to Fort Leavenworth. I was put out of the military on a Chapter 13 discharge, Unsatisfactory Performance, which allowed me a General Discharge, instead of the Dishonorable I probably well deserved.
Do me a favor and re-read this first part over again. I want you to understand something: I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS! My father had lots of friends in positions of authority in the Board of Military Review. Had I only asked, I could have had my discharge upgraded to an Honorable. I have declined this for over 20 years because I did not earn an Honorable Discharge. It led to a rift between my Dad and I which was not healed when he died in November of 2000.
Accepting Christ meant something far different for me than what it seems to mean to you and Kathy. For me, after reading and rereading the Bible, cover to cover, I realized that if I were to call myself a Christian, I had to accept my responsibility for what I did to others. It meant making phone calls and trying to send letters to people I hurt, to apologize, to tell them I was the one responsible for their misery. I was the one at fault, not them.
I had years and years of bad examples, of people who demonstrated to me hateful and evil actions. I learned very well how to hate, how to break, how to destroy. I was very, very good at it. In leaving that behind by becoming a Christian, I had to relearn everything, not the least of which included remembering that for most people, if there's something worth criticizing, there's also something worth praising. It meant that instead of looking for what was wrong about someone, I had to look for what was right. It meant that maybe your mother was right after all: If you couldn't say something nice, you ought to keep your mouth shut. It meant I had to offer to help, rather than belittle and berate. It meant I had to change my attitude, my direction, my belief about myself, and about others.
It was a very difficult thing, learning that I was not anywhere near as important as I thought I was, and coming to the realization that such an attitude was a cover for what I'd been taught by my parents my whole life. I had to learn to put others ahead of myself. I can tell you this: I've been a hell of a lot happier since I learned to humble myself, and accept that I'm not as smart, I'm not as important, I'm not as good looking, I'm not anything near what I thought I am. I'm just one more mutt in this world, and I have a choice: I can make things worse, or I can make them better.
Accepting Christ was one step towards a more factual view of who and what I was. However, it was costly. Others within the Church do not share my view of what it means to be a Christian, so I found I was on the outside nearly all the time. I wanted to put together a food closet, at the very least, to help the hungry in our community. I wanted to serve in any capacity I could. I found out that being a divorced man, married to a divorced woman in a Protestant Church in the U.S. is tantamount to wearing a t-shirt with "666" on the front. We were told there was no place for us.
Let me tell you something, Edge, Kathy, and others: I had warning sign after warning sign that I was in the wrong place. The one thing that should have set off every warning bell was any discussion of "stewardship." You need to tithe, they kept telling us, but they didn't want to show us how to do that when you're working for near minimum wage.
Ah, yes, tithing! Give money to God. God doesn't need the money, but you and I need the discipline of giving it. Never mind that if I give my 10%, in doing so, my kids do without little luxuries like food, clothing, and possibly shelter. Just keep giving money to God, and He will take care of you!
Except that isn't what happened. Ever.
I lost track of the times I wound up raiding the dumpster at work, or near the apartment where we lived for a while, so Peggy and my younger two sons would have enough real food to eat. We tithed. And we suffered. For what?
Don't even ask how Peggy was treated. I never saw anyone put up with so much toxic slop, all in the name of serving God. Peggy gave and gave of herself, and was slighted by pastors and deacons, by women's ministry leaders, and by so many others. Because, God forbid, she was divorced.
I don't know how much of this I discussed on the board when I first got here. I can tell you that becoming a truck driver changed a number of things for me, not the least of which is that I learned you have to work from the way things really are, not how you want them to be. Tough lesson, but necessary. By the time I got here, I'd already put nearly one million miles on the road, and had learned just how little I really knew.
One person who understood the changes I was going through was Rikzilla. He was the one who recommended to me that I check out this board. I did, coming here, as I said at the outset, to learn. I'm still learning.
I came to Christ to gain a factual knowledge of how to be a better man. And a few years ago, I would have told you that by coming to know Christ, He made me a better man.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I'm wondering if, in fact, the reason I changed was that I saw good people I could use as an example, people who were avatars, if you will, of what I wanted to be, and modified my behavior to fit. I wonder if, in fact, as I read my Bible, I saw good examples of what I could be, and changed not because of the power of the Holy Spirit, but by my own will.
The Church had lied to me time and again about so much. I began to wonder if they'd lied to me about the existence of God.
It wouldn't surprise me. Atheists were supposed to be such miserable people, yet I knew a lot of pretty happy atheists. Agnostics were supposed to be lacking in spiritual direction, but most of the agnostics I knew were better centered than most Christians.
The kicker? Most of the Atheists and Agnostics could let their yes be yes, and their no be no. I don't know too many Christians who can manage to pull even that meager feat off.
See, Kathy, you keep apologizing, but your behavior does not change. You have yet to really acknowledge the pain you've inflicted on others. You sidestep it, then wonder why people here get pissed off. Edge, you're in the same boat. And yes, Tricky is one of the most compassionate people on this board, but trust me, you do not want to irritate him, especially by playing the games you are playing now. Because with that great compassion is great justice. Something to think about.
See, the people here have become my friends. They tell me when I'm wrong, but do so without humiliating me. They tell me when I'm right, and temper my pride when they do. They encourage me when I'm hurting, they heal me when I'm broken. They do what the Church was supposed to do. And they do so without God.
If the Church lied about service, accepting personal responsibility, and tithing, what else did they lie about? I started checking the facts, and I find I cannot completely accept the Bible as I once did. The facts do not support what I read. Perhaps, (and those who know me here know how hard this is to say), there is no God at all. Perhaps once I'm gone, my spirit, such as it was, will fade away with my body. And perhaps, that just might be for the best.
With your outbursts, you remind me just how rare truly devout Christians are in this world. I'm married to one. When she talks to me about what she believes, I want to believe it, too, if only for the idea, the dream, that when we leave this life, I will see her again. I love Peggy that much.
As you rage, preach, belittle, and drone on, you remind me that there was reason I left the Church. I've learned, in the meantime, that what I did not get from the Church and God I found here. While you and others obsess about the End Times, awaiting a Rapture that is unlikely to come, (and frankly, I find the idea of a Pre-Trib Rapture more than a little selfish and apallingly cruel), there are those who want nothing more than an opportunity to serve others. If Jesus were to come tomorrow, He would not find these people waiting for Him; rather they'd be doing what He told the two of you to be doing. Life is to be lived, and part of living is helping others live better lives. It's something you might want to think about.
I've said too many goodbyes to good people over the past few years. I had the privalege of knowing some great souls, and I regret those that I drove away with my zeal to see them "Saved." Perhaps if I had kept silent, instead of growing enamored of my own voice, I might have gained friends, rather than wasted my time trying for converts.
Paul said that he wanted to know only Christ, and Him Crucified. I wonder if I even know that much, or if it's even true anymore. I doubt you will have an answer for me, and further question whether you'll listen long enough to even try.
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Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
This has got to be one of the most morally smug, self-indulgent, hateful posts I've read in a long time.
I ought to report it, if for no other reason, than simply because it's damned near a work of art.
Pauliesonne
Bi Gi
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,687
For Edge;
Someone must have loved you,
when you were a child,
personally, if it were me
I'd have thrown you in the wild
Someone must have loved you,
when you were a child,
personally, if it were me
I'd have thrown you in the wild
Cosmo
Radioactive Rationalist
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 1,182
Hmm. So, by your logic, if I were to type up a TWO-paragraph list of credentials, I'd have twice the evidence behind me that John P. Marcus does? Heck, I like your way of thinking! A shame, though, that the world doesn't work that way.
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
NOMINATED!
slingblade
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2005
- Messages
- 23,466
RT, a beautiful, thoughtful, meaningful post, as always. Each time I read one of those from you, I like you even better and envy your lovely wife even more.
Pauliesonne, from one poet to another, man, that was just great!
Edge, it was people like you who helped me reject that societal torture device known as God. Keep talking buddy. Your every word shows me I made the right decision.
Pauliesonne, from one poet to another, man, that was just great!
Edge, it was people like you who helped me reject that societal torture device known as God. Keep talking buddy. Your every word shows me I made the right decision.
Genesius
Apathetic Agnostic
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2004
- Messages
- 1,583
Sad to say, that attitude seems to be widespread. As I said in another thread, the church across from where I work has this on their sign:
Tithe if you love Jesus
Anybody can honk
RT, I'll take your brand of Christianity over theirs any day.
Anybody can honk
RT, I'll take your brand of Christianity over theirs any day.
slingblade
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2005
- Messages
- 23,466
Hmmm. So you think to protect yourself from God's wrath by weaseling out of it..."I didn't specifically call anyone a fool!" Yeah, that'll work.
Oh, and that last sentence, there? The one about god protecting believers?
Liar.
Let's see.....two letters and three symbols, not capitalized....nope, I don't think it's "Protestant."
So just keep 'em coming, Edge. As I said, your every word convinces me I'm right.
Pauliesonne
Bi Gi
- Joined
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delphi_ote
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2005
- Messages
- 5,994
You haven't presented your own credentials. How am I supposed to believe you about these people having more credentials than me?
Screwed. If an all powerful God created the universe and is deliberately trying to fool me, I can never know the truth.
Will you and Kathy actually read what Roadtoad wrote? I doubt it. And he actually went through the trouble of writing it himself.
Cleon
King of the Pod People
Not to mention the trouble of living it himself.
I completely understand why RT gets so pissed off at these imbeciles. They come in here with the usual plattitudes--"find Jesus, it'll all be ok!" He pours out his soul about his spiritual journey, the emptiness that came with it, and why finding Jesus did not make everything ok for him or his loved ones. The response? "Find Jesus, it'll all be ok! I found Jesus and I'm ok! So if you find Jesus, you'll be ok!"
It's like having an emotional heart-to-heart with a broken record player.