The Gospel

kurious_kathy[/i] [B]Now I say God gave us free will said:
I have no words.
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[/QUOTE] Let me try...

Kathy, God gave you a brain too, but again you choose not to use it. What is it about God's gifts that you hate?
 
Let me try...

Kathy, God gave you a brain too, but again you choose not to use it. What is it about God's gifts that you hate? [/QUOTE]
Who are you to judge me? I don't play that game. Is it because you don't understand that you assume I am stupid. I can assure you I am not. Experience is the best teacher in many ways. What are your life experiences? Or are you just a book worm?
And I appreciate all the good things that I acknowlege are gifts from God. Gifts of the spirit! You probably have a hard time with that one too? All good gifts come from Him.
I have personally found out that my will got in the way when it came to trusting Him in my life. I tried to do it all my way. Guess what, I am admitting that I found out the hard way I was wrong. A life without God was no life at all! Have you ever tried falling in love? It's the same experience.I have fallen in love w/ Jesus! Just cause you don't understand that, does that make me wrong or stupid? I think you should be a bit more sensative to others.
 
I am not the one that will judge you. I am just sharing from my heart that I know if you are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, God will judge you. Once we die it's too late to receive His gift of salvation. By Gods grace we are saved. Once grace is removed a mans true nature will be revealed, and guess what, that scares the heck out of me!
Do you have even any inclination of what God's grace is?Heaven and earth will pass away, but He is the same. We can take God on His word!
2 Corinthians 5:11-21
The Ministry of Reconciliation
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I am not the one that will judge you. I am just sharing from my heart that I know if you are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, God will judge you. Once we die it's too late to receive His gift of salvation. By Gods grace we are saved. Once grace is removed a mans true nature will be revealed, and guess what, that scares the heck out of me!
Do you have even any inclination of what God's grace is?Heaven and earth will pass away, but He is the same. We can take God on His word!
2 Corinthians 5:11-21
The Ministry of Reconciliation
Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
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Believe in my God or go to hell.

You most certainly are judging me. YOU.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Actually I had hardened my heart towards God for a long time. I blamed him for everything that went wrong in my life. That's what hurt the most was to see how hard I had become. I was a very angry woman. I almost lost everything. Had he not intervened in my life I am sure I would not be alive to tell you about it!
And please hear when I share from my heart that I am just greatlful to know the truth. I want it for all of you too. It seems brokenness it what it takes before we can truely come to faith. I use to joke about it when I went out with my friends. "Why did God give us free will? So we could mess up our lives. " But it's really not funny. Now I say God gave us free will, but He didn't say we have to use it! I have found for the first time peace inside of me. No longer angry or recentful of things like before!
This is a complete 180 degree turn from where I was. It was always my will against God's and I was miserable!
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So if I'm reading this right, you already believed in God, but had decided that he was a total wanker. Then you changed your mind and started to believe that he was actually really nice, you just hadn't been able to see it before.

I'm happy for you to have found a way to live with your belief in God, but it isn't the same as not believing in God.

My heart isn't hardened towards God. As far as I'm concerned God is about as real as the tooth fairy, goblins, Bilbo Baggins, and any other number of fictional characters. I have no real feelings regarding these characters.

I live my life according to a very simple principle - treat others as you would have them treat you. I don't steal, I don't cheat, I don't lie (except to save other people's feelings), I don't hurt other people physically and do my best not to hurt them psychologically. I don't seek money or property to excess - as long as I have a roof over my head and food in my belly I'm content. If someone needs help, and I am in a position to give it, I will, to the best of my ability.

In other words, I try to be a decent human being.

According to your beliefs, I'm headed for hell. :rolleyes:
 
I never denied there was a God. I knew always He is Love. I just found out later in life how I had rebelled against Him without knowing how? Being a good person is not enough! And I to always believed in do unto to others as you would want done unto you, which by the way is written in scripture!

1 John 4:7-21
God's Love and Ours
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Don't you think the pure act of love speaks much about the existence of God? Love is a gift from God!, and so is forgiveness.
Which if you can see my point, there is no love if there is no forgiveness. Which brings me always back to the same place in my heart. He died so we could live. A life without love is no good at all. Wouldn't you agree with that? And for love to survive there must be forgiveness.
I do see love being challenged these days. Disposable relationships, families, ect... Without God there is no love!
And then think about this, we know we have love, but can we see evidences of it? Is it something we feel? Is it the way we show it? Hard to prove the evidence of Love? But we know it exists, Don't we? Where does it come from? God is Love!
 
Atlas said:
Let me try...

Kathy, God gave you a brain too, but again you choose not to use it. What is it about God's gifts that you hate?

Originally posted by kurious_kathy
Who are you to judge me? I don't play that game.
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I'm Atlas and this game we're playing is something you began. I'm throwing back at you the same garbage you have brought here.

Is it because you don't understand that you assume I am stupid.
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I do understand. I'm not assuming you are stupid. Your actions and choice of words in your responses tells me that you're afraid to pit your own ideas against any poster here. You choose pieces of scripture that have no relation to the questions that have been posed. That is what is stupid about you.
I can assure you I am not. Experience is the best teacher in many ways. What are your life experiences? Or are you just a book worm?
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I too have a life of experiences. I am no doubt older than you. The difference between us is that I've cherished wisdom wherever I've found it. You don't. You do not think for yourself. You find a piece of scripture. You don't even understand what the scripture says. Nor do you question it. It is true for you because it is scripture and nothing else is. All you life experience you reject because it was sinful. Then you tell me it's the best teacher. You don't know or think about anything you post. Maybe you're not stupid but you are unthinking.
And I appreciate all the good things that I acknowledge are gifts from God. Gifts of the spirit! You probably have a hard time with that one too? All good gifts come from Him.
I have personally found out that my will got in the way when it came to trusting Him in my life. I tried to do it all my way. Guess what, I am admitting that I found out the hard way I was wrong. A life without God was no life at all! Have you ever tried falling in love? It's the same experience.I have fallen in love w/ Jesus! Just cause you don't understand that, does that make me wrong or stupid? I think you should be a bit more sensative to others.
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You are insensitive. Many of us have told you that we were immersed in Christianity and felt the same deep devotion and love of Jesus that you now profess. You will not engage us there. You do not really want to hear us. We've told you that we are happy you found a way to escape your addictions and dalliances with life's seamy side. You tell us we're going to hell. We tell you that hell is a fairy tale. You tell us you're sorry that we'll burn forever.

You don't listen. You don't think. You have nothing to say except Jesus loves me and he condemns you all to hell but he's sad - he's very sad to do it. Brainless and insensitive, Kathy.
 
am just sharing from my heart that I know if you are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, God will judge you.
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EEEWWWW! Covered in blood! I hope there's a shower in heaven.
 
kurious_kathy

I seem to be picking on you. It's not usually the way I address other posters. You have a certain posting style that kinda gets me.

One thing you're fond of is posting scriptural excerpts. One thing you're not fond of is when I point out your postings are thoughtless, insensitive and kinda dumb.

Maybe there is a way we can meet in the middle. You don't like people to think you're stupid. I invite you to make a style change.

Choose a piece of scripture post it, if you must, and then explain how it answers a post you are responding to. That is, don't just post it - tell us about it. We can appreciate wisdom and beauty.

Maybe you want to start a new thread with a scriptural thought. If so, do it. But then defend it. Show us how your brain puts the truth together. You aren't doing that yet. All you're really doing is spamming.

Many of the posters here know the Bible better that you and I. It won't be the same type of Bible study you may be used to but it will be challenging and possibly fruitful. The only thing - the only thing that you have in common with most of the posters here is that we all appreciate the truth. We don't mind investigating it. If you're unwilling to do that on these boards you're a troll and a spammer.

What do you think?
 
kurious_kathy said:
I never denied there was a God. I knew always He is Love. I just found out later in life how I had rebelled against Him without knowing how? Being a good person is not enough! And I to always believed in do unto to others as you would want done unto you, which by the way is written in scripture!
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How do you know what God will or won't decide? Do you dare to speak for God and claim to know His intentions and judgements?

If not then you can't really say who will go to heaven and who won't.

Maybe as far as He is concerned being a good person is enough. Maybe He will judge us on our actions and not be concerned about whether we did good things simply because we were scared of Him or of going to Hell.
Maybe God will value highly those who didn't believe in Him or in a heaven, yet still chose to live morally.
It's easier to live a good life when you are simply scared of punishment.

But I get the impression that would really annoy you - the possibilty that people could go to heaven who hadn't spent all their time preaching or praying.

Imagine that - heaven full of millions of people of different ages, races, sexualities, beliefs all living together in joy for eternity.
That would be my idea of heaven.

Why do I get the strange impression that it wouldn't be yours?
 
kurious_kathy said:
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God.
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No, it doesn't. The various loves I feel in my life come from me. I am certainly not channelling the Great Juju in the Sky.
 
I just noticed that.

thanks kimpatsu, for singling that line out, I didn't notice it before.


ok then, to refresh:

Originally posted by kurious_kathy
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God.
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In that case kathy, in the name of love your religion has killed maimed and conquered.

By that logic I say this:

In the name of love you can f@%& off.
 
First I would like to apologize if I have offended anyone. I am a very emotional person and when I speak out sometimes I'm sure it can be misconceived by some of you. Let me reassure you that I myself am not a hostile or judgemental person. I also do not agree with other world religions/AND OR ATHEISM.
I consider myself to be a non-denominational Christian. That does in no way say I am brain washed! Expressing my opinion when I talk is important to me, just like is is to you.. And I like to share things in light of scripture. This is why you are seeing so many references to the Bible. Sorry if that's hard for you, but that's my belief and conviction!

I do however feel that the Gospel itself is an offense to people.
It always seems the person sharing this message becomes a victim of others harsh judgements, no matter what their backround is. And I really was a Pagan minded person not that long ago myself, now I have been converted to Christianity!
I am really just trying to get others to speak openly about their thoughts, feelings, experience, or opinions with this subject. I would really appreciate if you guys would try to be a little nicer towards me, even if you don't like what I'm sharing. It's called respect, or is that not important to you? It is to me.
 
Ashles said:
How do you know what God will or won't decide? Do you dare to speak for God and claim to know His intentions and judgements?

If not then you can't really say who will go to heaven and who won't.

Maybe as far as He is concerned being a good person is enough. Maybe He will judge us on our actions and not be concerned about whether we did good things simply because we were scared of Him or of going to Hell.
Maybe God will value highly those who didn't believe in Him or in a heaven, yet still chose to live morally.
It's easier to live a good life when you are simply scared of punishment.

But I get the impression that would really annoy you - the possibilty that people could go to heaven who hadn't spent all their time preaching or praying.

Imagine that - heaven full of millions of people of different ages, races, sexualities, beliefs all living together in joy for eternity.
That would be my idea of heaven.

Why do I get the strange impression that it wouldn't be yours?
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Awe. But there is a owners manual called the Bible.
And yes many things have been proven in it. Let me share a bit of info from a chapter in a book called Know Why You Believe by Paul E. Little called, "Do science and scripture conflict?"
Science can tell us how things work, but not why it works that way. In other word, Science can give us the know-how, but not the know why's. We are dependent on revelation for many kinds of information, the absence of which leaves us with a quite incomplete picture. The Bible does not purport to tell us the how of many things, but it clearly gives us the why's.
Colossians 1:17 (New International Version)
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
The universe would fall apart without Gods sustaining power. Even if man understands and explains everything, he will still need God. Knowing how the universe is sustained is not the same thing as sustaining it.

And when it comes to heaven, look at this Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
 
kurious_kathy said:

I do however feel that the Gospel itself is an offense to people.
It always seems the person sharing this message becomes a victim of others harsh judgements, no matter what their backround is.
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As I stated before I personally am not offended by the gospel - nor have I seen that anyone on this thread is offended by the gospel. From my perspective it makes as much sense to be offended by the gospel as to be offended by any piece of fiction. The only harsh judgements that have been levelled at you Kathy are in response to your inability to engage us in any sort of meaningful debate. You spew bits and pieces of your scripture at us but don't tell us how you feel they are relevant to our discussions. You assure us we're all going to hell in a handcart for our belief system but don't give us any evidence to justify YOUR judgment.

The gospel is of no offense to me. People who misinterpret / abuse the gospel are often VERY offensive to me. I don't find you particularly offensive, just somewhat deluded.

And I really was a Pagan minded person not that long ago myself, now I have been converted to Christianity!
I am really just trying to get others to speak openly about their thoughts, feelings, experience, or opinions with this subject. I would really appreciate if you guys would try to be a little nicer towards me, even if you don't like what I'm sharing. It's called respect, or is that not important to you? It is to me.
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What motivation do I have to open up my thoughts, feelings, experience and opinions on the subject of christianity? If I take the time to spill my guts on this board I know what your answer will be already. You'll proselytize to me by quoting snippets of biblical mumbo-jumbo at me, and tell me how wrong I am (but not tell me WHY you think I'm wrong) and how sorry for me you feel because I'm clearly going to spend eternity having beelzebub stick pointy things into my nether regions. I don't need it. You want me to open up? Why don't YOU tell us WITHOUT quoting scripture YOUR experience? What was wrong with your life and how did your conversion turn things around for you? How do you correlate this change with your conversion? What evidence in your life do you see of your 'living god'? You want to have an open, frank discussion about this? Well you started the topic - so after 13 pages of ridiculous verbiage, why don't you start to talk about it?

-Oke
 
kurious_kathy said:
I do however feel that the Gospel itself is an offense to people.
It always seems the person sharing this message becomes a victim of others harsh judgements, no matter what their backround is. And I really was a Pagan minded person not that long ago myself, now I have been converted to Christianity!
I am really just trying to get others to speak openly about their thoughts, feelings, experience, or opinions with this subject. I would really appreciate if you guys would try to be a little nicer towards me, even if you don't like what I'm sharing. It's called respect, or is that not important to you? It is to me.
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Lets try this again. I am not offended by the Gospel. I have no interest in it.
You want to share the message, fine. Understand that there are people who don't care to receive it. If you, or anyone else, insist on sharing even after it has been made clear it's not wanted, people will get annoyed and maybe even take offense.
 
Antiquehunter said:
As I stated before I personally am not offended by the gospel - nor have I seen that anyone on this thread is offended by the gospel. From my perspective it makes as much sense to be offended by the gospel as to be offended by any piece of fiction. The only harsh judgements that have been levelled at you Kathy are in response to your inability to engage us in any sort of meaningful debate. You spew bits and pieces of your scripture at us but don't tell us how you feel they are relevant to our discussions. You assure us we're all going to hell in a handcart for our belief system but don't give us any evidence to justify YOUR judgment.

The gospel is of no offense to me. People who misinterpret / abuse the gospel are often VERY offensive to me. I don't find you particularly offensive, just somewhat deluded.



What motivation do I have to open up my thoughts, feelings, experience and opinions on the subject of christianity? If I take the time to spill my guts on this board I know what your answer will be already. You'll proselytize to me by quoting snippets of biblical mumbo-jumbo at me, and tell me how wrong I am (but not tell me WHY you think I'm wrong) and how sorry for me you feel because I'm clearly going to spend eternity having beelzebub stick pointy things into my nether regions. I don't need it. You want me to open up? Why don't YOU tell us WITHOUT quoting scripture YOUR experience? What was wrong with your life and how did your conversion turn things around for you? How do you correlate this change with your conversion? What evidence in your life do you see of your 'living god'? You want to have an open, frank discussion about this? Well you started the topic - so after 13 pages of ridiculous verbiage, why don't you start to talk about it?

-Oke
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Is not the statement you just made towards me about me being deluded a judgement call? Yet you say I'm trying to judge you just by your being open to talk about why the Gospel is an offense.
What I hear you saying is you just don't like the people who share it. Not the message, but the messengers, is that right? Jesus people just bug you? Why?? We are very loving people, yet people think badly of Christians? Have you seen too many phony Christians? I don't get it.
Jesus was the only perfect man that was ever born, and look what we did to him! I feel if more of us were looking to him rather than pointing the finger at eachother there would be lots more love in this world. He that knew no sin, bore ours on that cross. I know what he did on that cross and I want his forgiveness. And even though I know I'm not perfect, I am choosing to follow his teachings, even though I know I can never totally stop sinning, I know now that I can go to Him and ask for his forgiveness and help. What I find is he gives me the strength in him to not have to circum to those weaknesses/ or short-comings I use to have.
I can only tell you that I feel a freedom I never had before. But why should I feel like I have to be on the defence for what I believe now. Are people just too concerned about finding what's wrong in something that they can't see what's right?
 
kurious_kathy said:
Is not the statement you just made towards me about me being deluded a judgement call? Yet you say I'm trying to judge you just by your being open to talk about why the Gospel is offense. Now I hear you just don't like the people who share it. Not the message, but the messengers, is that right?
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Well, unlike you I will provide you with tangible evidence that I feel you are deluded in order to qualify my assertion. I don't mean to sound judgmental - its just that you haven't done anything to convince me of the veracity of your beliefs. I call you deluded in the nicest, gentlest, most non-judgmental way possible.

Define: Delusion (Deluded)
- (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
- a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; "he has delusions of competence"; "his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination"
Source: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Excerpt from one of your posts:

"Don't you think the pure act of love speaks much about the existence of God? Love is a gift from God!, and so is forgiveness.

Which if you can see my point, there is no love if there is no forgiveness. Which brings me always back to the same place in my heart. He died so we could live. A life without love is no good at all. Wouldn't you agree with that? And for love to survive there must be forgiveness.

I do see love being challenged these days. Disposable relationships, families, ect... Without God there is no love!
And then think about this, we know we have love, but can we see evidences of it? Is it something we feel? Is it the way we show it? Hard to prove the evidence of Love? But we know it exists, Don't we? Where does it come from? God is Love!"

Highly delusional - one example is you claim that 'God is Love' and 'Without God there is no love'. I do not believe in god, however I definitely am able to experience and express love. Ergo, I live without god and I have love.
 
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