The Gospel

Genesius said:
Well, I'm in a good mood tonight, so here's the proof. From http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=3643364&ft=lg


Bolding mine. So Kathy, you might want to consider the source before you go throwing quotes around. Apparently your Christian heroes aren't as holy as you think. . .
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Thank you for following up on this.

Shall we start a pool on how many websites that have published his glurge will take it down? I'll go with "0".
 
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fowlsound said:
Nothing to say about the molestor preist, eh?
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I suspect she will probably ignore it completely. She seems to seize on random phrases to reply to, and since this isn't one that can really be replied to with "God is nifty! I love God! You're going to hell!" my money is that she ignores the subject, and repeated calls on it.

'Course, as always, I'd love to be wrong. *grin*



Edit: And hey, good work Genesius!
 
Yoo-hoo, Kathy???

I must admit, young lady, I'm getting a might put out with you. First you repeatedly ignore my question to you regarding the morality of eternal punishment, now you ignore me when I provide proof that John Powell admitted to sexually abusing six people. Obviously your parents didn't do a very good job teaching you manners, otherwise you'd know it's not polite to ignore people who ask you a question.

So are you going to respond, or do I have to go out back and cut a switch?
 
UrsulaV said:
I suspect she will probably ignore it completely. She seems to seize on random phrases to reply to, and since this isn't one that can really be replied to with "God is nifty! I love God! You're going to hell!" my money is that she ignores the subject, and repeated calls on it.

'Course, as always, I'd love to be wrong. *grin*



Edit: And hey, good work Genesius!
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Thank you, thank you <bowing>. I sympathise with Randfan not wanting to provide this proof until Kathy provides proof of her position, but I knew I'd grow old and die before Kathy provides proof of anything.

Not that Kathy answers any of my posts anyway, so I'm not expecting her to answer this one either.
 
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So, silence for a while. Then I'll expect KK will post another random quote from something she's reading that she'll pass off as pertinent to this discussion when really isn't, ignoring every legitimate and worthwhile point raised by a dozen individuals already. And the cycle will repeat.

Genesius, I can expect her attitude about the priest to be something along the lines of "None of us are perfect". For us to expose this priest for his crimes is indicative of us judging others, when none are sinless. For KK, John Powell's crimes don't change the fact that atheist Tommy got cancer, began truly loving others, and was then found by God.

Fowlsound, I'm guessing KK thinks that humanity broke the "Law of Love" when he disobeys God. And the only act that can excuse this crime is belief that God loves us so much, he's willing to kill his son for us. Ofcouse, KK personally see's love as "unconditional" or "true love" as "expecting nothing in return". Which is odd, considering God's love for humanity is conditional and Christian love of God EXPECTS entrance to Heaven as a consequence.

KK, I think Roadtoad, RandFan, Delph, myself, Ossai and many others (in the last couple of pages at least) bring up points to ponder.

Dr. Adequate was making the very distinct point that your "arguments" for the validity of your belief sound no different than any other follower of any other religion.

I wish I could say I've grown from this discussion, but I haven't. KK, you've given me very little to work with. I wish you would listen to what we say from our perspective instead of yours (remember, some of these people were actually Christians once!)

I hope we have at least:

1. Made the point that you should know something about the religion before you cast it off completely as false.
2. Made you consider the possibility that atheist can love thy neighbor just as well as believing Christians.
3. Made you consider how your beliefs might offend God (if he exists) and what implications those beliefs have for non-Christians you've never met
 
Mark A. Siefert said:
In the immortal words of William Shatner: "Excuse me, but what does God need with a starship?

I know that sounded glib but for some reason I found it appropos considering SuperCoolGuy's previous questions.
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Couldn't even get to the rest of the thread. This just made me laugh. Thank you.
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
Genesius, I can expect her attitude about the priest to be something along the lines of "None of us are perfect". For us to expose this priest for his crimes is indicative of us judging others, when none are sinless. For KK, John Powell's crimes don't change the fact that atheist Tommy got cancer, began truly loving others, and was then found by God.
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Assuming, of course, that the story is true. We only have Powell's word that this actually happened. Even if it did, I'm not that impressed that some kid was scared of dying and clutching at straws to avoid the reality of his life ending. Tommy wasn't "found by God", Tommy convinced himself that he had found god. Ah well, it made his last days happy and religion is generally cheaper than morphine. . .

And as far as none of us being sinless, I offer you a bit of bumper sticker wisdom:

"Know God, know sin.
No God, no sin!"
 
kurious_kathy said:
Man's disobedience has robbed God of honour and glory which obedience would have brought to him. Therefore the Divine plan of redemption (delivering man from sin) needs to restore to God all the honour and glory lost through man breaking the law of love. If this were not so then God would be the eternal loser (as a result of man's sin) which is impossible. In light of this, the one true religion,(based only on supernatural revelation), needs to reveal that Divine plan of salvation has restored to God all honour and glory lost through mans sin. Any doctrine that fails to do this cannot be true.

Would you care to give me an opinion on this last statement?
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I would.

I just learned yesterday that the main reason my mentor dismissed me last week is because she's a Christian and she found out I'm atheist. She also lied, verbally and in writing, about my performance in order to speed up the process.

She is now refusing to return my personal property from her classroom, and is telling her employers it's her stuff. Even the materials I created, she's trying to keep as her own. If she succeeds, I'll be bringing a suit against her for theft of intellectual property.

Lying, stealing, and destruction of a career, among other wrongs.
This is how her faith brings glory to God, The Eternal Loser (as stated above).

So far, *too many of the Christians I've encountered in my life have been of her stripe: low-lifes who hide behind an imaginary beng in order to better perpetrate their cruelties. And you're standing right there alongside them, KK.
Keep up the good work.


(*Edited to change "most," as it's not true, and not the word I should have used. See following posts.)
 
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Hey, Sling -

Even though kk and the putrid mass of flesh that is your ex-supervisor don't lend credence to this, there are good christians out there. A number of this board, and a number I know personally. You know, people who are courageous, kind, and darn fun to be with.
 
bluess said:
Hey, Sling -

Even though kk and the putrid mass of flesh that is your ex-supervisor don't lend credence to this, there are good christians out there. A number of this board, and a number I know personally. You know, people who are courageous, kind, and darn fun to be with.
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Oh, Bluess, I know that, and I'm sorry for implying otherwise. I have good friends who are also Christians, and we get along just fine. And these are good people, who make mistakes like everyone else. But they don't manipulate their beliefs, or try to manipulate me with them. I've even been known to pray with them, because they've been so sincere and so kind.

My apologies to you for using too big and too nasty a brush.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I am reading this book that is very well defined in the differences and I found this explanation to be very direct and good.

A Moslem who is a true seeker after God must choose between the unknowable God of the Koran and the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible revealed himself through Jesus Christ as the God of redemption, giving the gift of eternal life to those who accept who he is and what he has done for us. In contrast, no statements can be made positively or factually concerning Allah since he is spoken of as "Unknowable." this was taken from FS Coplestones book Jesus Christ VS Mohammaed.
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Have you considered that possibily a Muslim who is a true seeker after God is searching for the God of the Koran who revealed himself through Mohammed?

Aw, what's the use . . . .
 
slingblade said:
I just learned yesterday that the main reason my mentor dismissed me last week is because she's a Christian and she found out I'm atheist. She also lied, verbally and in writing, about my performance in order to speed up the process.

She is now refusing to return my personal property from her classroom, and is telling her employers it's her stuff. Even the materials I created, she's trying to keep as her own. If she succeeds, I'll be bringing a suit against her for theft of intellectual property. (edited to add) I'm sorry you have to start out what hopefully will be a promising career like this.

Lying, stealing, and destruction of a career, among other wrongs.
This is how her faith brings glory to God, The Eternal Loser (as stated above).
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IMPOSSIBLE, Slingblade! If your ex-mentor is a Christian there is NO WAY she would have judged you on your personal beliefs, and I'm sure there is a perfectly good reason why your personal property hasn't been returned. I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding. ;)

P.S. One prejudice I'm not ashamed to admit is the fact that ANYTIME someone brings the fact that they're a Christian into an unrelated conversation, I immediately distrust them. I've said it before and it may even be pertinent in this case, but anytime, anyone is waving a flag or a crucifix in front of your face, it's because they don't want you to see what the other hand is hiding. :(
 
kurious_kathy said:
Except for two big huge differences. Allah and Jesus are not the same God.

I am reading this book that is very well defined in the differences and I found this explanation to be very direct and good.
A Moslem who is a true seeker after God must choose between the unknowable God of the Koran and the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible revealed himself through Jesus Christ as the God of redemption, giving the gift of eternal life to those who accept who he is and what he has done for us. In contrast, no statements can be made positively or factually concerning Allah since he is spoken of as "Unknowable." this was taken from FS Coplestones book Jesus Christ VS Mohammaed.
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Don't make it too easy for me, will you.

kurious_karimah said:
Except for two big huge differences. Allah is God and Jesus is not.

I am reading this book that is very well defined in the differences and I found this explanation to be very direct and good.
A Christian who is a true seeker after God must choose between the God revealled in the Koran and the God of the Bible. The God of the Qu'raan revealed himself through Mohammad as the God of redemption, giving the gift of eternal life to those who accept who he is and what he has done for us. In contrast, no statements can be made positively or factually concerning the Christian God since he is spoken of as "Incomprehensible." this was taken from FS Saddiqi's book Mohammad VS Jesus Christ.
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To prove my point, let's have a look at the Athanasian Creed:

We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
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A false religion has an "unknowable" God.
The true religion has an "incomprehensible" God times three.
Duh.
 
Aw, c'mon Dr. A. Athanasian Creed? kk can't tell the differentiate between Islam and the Nation of Islam. That's WAAAAAY too many syllables.

And, Sling, given your experiences, I'm impressed your brush isn't broader.
 
Genesius said:
Well, I'm in a good mood tonight, so here's the proof. From http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=3643364&ft=lg

...

Bolding mine. So Kathy, you might want to consider the source before you go throwing quotes around. Apparently your Christian heroes aren't as holy as you think. . .
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Curiously, this story from an assignment reporter at a local TV station is the only source I've been able to identify for the assertion that Powell actually admitted to any abuse. I find nothing else in the general media or in the specialized legal press to that effect. I also inquired of a couple of colleagues in the Chicago litigation bar who knew of the existence of the settlement, but were unaware that Powell had made an admission of wrongdoing at any point.

Certainly the linked story does not constitute "proof that John Powell admitted to sexually abusing six people", nor even especially strong evidence of the same. There is a reasonably good chance that one reporter simply got that part wrong. Even if she did, of course, that doesn't exclude the possibility that Powell was guilty.
 
ceo_esq said:
Curiously, this story from an assignment reporter at a local TV station is the only source I've been able to identify for the assertion that Powell actually admitted to any abuse. I find nothing else in the general media or in the specialized legal press to that effect. I also inquired of a couple of colleagues in the Chicago litigation bar who knew of the existence of the settlement, but were unaware that Powell had made an admission of wrongdoing at any point.

Certainly the linked story does not constitute "proof that John Powell admitted to sexually abusing six people", nor even especially strong evidence of the same. There is a reasonably good chance that one reporter simply got that part wrong. Even if she did, of course, that doesn't exclude the possibility that Powell was guilty.
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Hi ceo, thanks for your response here. I just shared Tommy's story which was written I don't know how long ago by Mr Powell. I don't even know if this John Powell is the same one everyone is talking about.

I had gotten this e-mail from my mom and just wanted to share what I think is a very touching story about Tommy! You guys again took a story I meant to share about Tommy and start making it a story about the guy who wrote it. Why do good things always seem to get twisted around as a bad thing on this board?

Anyways the testimony of Tommy came from this wesite w/many others.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/index-inspirational.htm
 
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