The Gospel

ned flandas said:
The miracle of bringing a person back to life seems a bit more spectacular than a rocket to me.
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Do you have any proof that this happened?

Why didn't anyone write about it at the time?

Why were the four stories that were written about it written at such a later date (40 to 100 years later)?

Why didn't the guy who started the church know the story?

Why do the 4 Gospel accounts of the event disagree in every detail?

Answer these.
 
Do you have any proof that this happened?
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It is written in the Bible

Why didn't anyone write about it at the time?
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How do you know they didnt. I'd imagine Lazarus's relatives wrote in their diary that night "dear diary.. looks like we wont be getting that inheritance for a while now.."

Why were the four stories that were written about it written at such a later date (40 to 100 years later)?
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People still write about the world wars now. I dont see your point here.

Why didn't the guy who started the church know the story?

Why do the 4 Gospel accounts of the event disagree in every detail?
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I wasnt aware they did. Let me go and check.
 
ned flandas said:
It is written in the Bible
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Surely you are kidding and are not actually saying that because something is written in the Bible, that's proof that it actually happened? Stuff written in old books is not proof of ANYTHING.
 
ned flandas said:
People still write about the world wars now. I dont see your point here.
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But they also wrote about it at the time it happened. And we have visual evidence in the form of photography, film, etc. And there are still people alive who lived it and can confirm what happened.
 
ned flandas said:
It is written in the Bible



How do you know they didnt. I'd imagine Lazarus's relatives wrote in their diary that night "dear diary.. looks like we wont be getting that inheritance for a while now.."
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Ok, where are the diaries?

ned flandas said:
People still write about the world wars now. I dont see your point here.
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People wrote about the world wars AT THE TIME too.......

ned flandas said:
I wasnt aware they did. Let me go and check.
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Go ahead and check ;)

Post a full report on what you find......
 
ned flandas said:
I'd imagine Lazarus's relatives wrote in their diary that night "dear diary.. looks like we wont be getting that inheritance for a while now.."
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The key word here is "imagine." I can imagine all kinds of things. I don't go around quoting them as reasons for other people to believe what I imagine is true.
 
Dr Adequate said:
The Parable of the Prodigal Son needs rewriting. It ought to end "so then his father tortured him forever."

But then Jesus was talking about sin, wasn't he? The concept of apostacy would have meant nothing to him; he'd never heard of Christianity and had no notion that one day people would worship him as a god.
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Very good.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Knowlege according to mans wisdom. Does it really give us all the answers? I myself say absolutely not!
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The alternative?

Did god's wisdom keep people from bloodletting?
Did god's wisdom inform people as to the cause of microbial disease?
Did god's wisdom inform us as to the nature of matter?
Did god's wisdom reveal Newtonian Mechanics or Euclidien Geomerty?
How about Quantum Mechanics or Relativity?

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men --1 Corinthians 1:25
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It sure as hell doesn't show. You can mock the wisdom of humans but it was the wisdom of humans that put a computer in front of you, medicine to cure you from many diseases and ailments, a longer life span, labor saving devices, etc., etc..

You want to see the wisdom of god? Try this.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
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Perhaps god, or the author of Genesis, underestimated humans.
 
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kurious_kathy said:
The one and only true religion will be the one that reveals and proclaims that God has provided full redemption(paid in full) for sinners. This comes about by His grace(undeserved favour) alone.

and

Therefore, another hallmark of the one true religion will be that God's purpose to redeem mankind would be known from the beginning. Along with this would be known something of the Person of the Redeemer and the way in which He would accomplish Redemption.

Two very good points to ponder!
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In other words, the one and only true religion will be the one that sounds like Christianity

and

another hallmark of the one true religion will be that everyone in history would know that Christianity is the religion and that everyone in history knows something about who Jesus would be/was and that he would/has died on the cross for everybody.

Let's get this straight. The perfectly obvious religion obvious to everybody throughout history is the one where God creates mankind either knowing or unknowing the fact that they would sin, punish all of mankind for the act of one (two?) persons, accepts payment through sacrifice from a specific people (Jews) for a while, then decide that payment for the sin will only be by paying it himself by killing another innocent person, himself (son?), which was obvious to everyone from the beginning anyway.

Something to ponder.
 
Ossai said:
Because it was part of the story told 40 years later.
Step back and think about it. If people did flock to Jesus why did it take 40 years for someone to bother recording it? It’s much easier to write about something that supposedly happened two generations ago when you don’t have to worry about pesky witnesses showing up and saying you’re wrong.
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Perhaps a more probing question would be why a Jerusalem mob's outcry for Jesus's release was reported 40 years later as a Jewish rejection of the True Messiah? It may not be documented, but clearly it was well enough known that it needed to be spun.
 
kurious_kathy said:
The one and only true religion will be the one that reveals and proclaims that God has provided full redemption(paid in full) for sinners. This comes about by His grace(undeserved favour) alone.
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Yes, but not for many of our Asian, Native American, Polynesian, Eastern Europe and other friends until centuries after the crucification and not for anyone born prior to the birth of our dear lord. In other words, didn't hear the word? Go to hell. It seems an omniscient diety couldn't come with anything better, huh? Was he watching TV when he came up with that one?

Therefore, another hallmark of the one true religion will be that God's purpose to redeem mankind would be known from the beginning.
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He promised to redeem from the beginning but condemned everyone before Christ to hell. What kind of f***ed up hallmark is that?

God: Hey Abraham?
Abraham: Yeah?
God: I'm condemning you to hell but someday I'm going to save some of your decendents.
Abraham: Uhhhhh.... that's awfully kind of you but couldn't you move up the timeline a bit?
God: Nah, gota wait for the right time.
Abraham: And all the people before that, hardly seems fair.
God: Lifes a bitch.

Along with this would be known something of the Person of the Redeemer and the way in which He would accomplish Redemption.

Two very good points to ponder!
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Not really, they suffer from poor strategic planning. I would have sent in a savior from the get go.
 
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delphi_ote said:
Bah. So inefficient. Why create the snake in the first place? Then you don't even need a savior!
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I mean, who allowed the darn snake in the garden? An omnipotent God can't keep track of what's going on in his own garden?

Unless it was all part of God's plan. Then God doomed man to fail from the beginning, yet acted surprised when it actually happened.

If one believes in God, I'd have to ask that person to at least give God a little more credit than believing He fools mankind, collectively punishes mankind, rapes a virgin, kills innocent people for other people's criimes, and eternally tortures billions of people for their ignorance in a specific mythology or their desire to give God more credit than a bunch of people who want a promise to eternal happiness based on a premise that others will be tortured.

Sure, some people reject Christianity because they want to drink, party, live life by their own rules, not have to go to church, etc..

And some people reject Christianity because they give God some credit.
 
delphi_ote said:
Bah. So inefficient. Why create the snake in the first place? Then you don't even need a savior!
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It makes for a good story, you know, drama, conflict, protagonist vs antag...

Wait, this is supposed to be more than just an allegory. I have no idea. It doesn't help humans that's for sure.
 
Blessed Astarte, this thread just won't end.


Adolf Hitler


There. The thread has been Godwined. It's finally over.
 
I think making a talking snake was a particularly bad idea.

What he should have done, in retrospect, is made a sentient wombat as well and told it to keep an eye on the snake.
 
RandFan said:
It doesn't help humans that's for sure.
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So why did create the... gah. Nevermind. Efficiency and logic were apparently not design constraints. Even a Civil Engineer could come up with a better plan, and they're not even real engineers.

P.S. Want to watch someone throw a fit? Walk up to an engineering major and say, "What's your major?" Whatever their response ("Mechanical Engineering" or "Electrical Engineering,") reply, "Oh. So you're not a real engineer."

P.S.S. You might want to duck after you say that last part.
 
delphi_ote said:
So why did create the... gah. Nevermind. Efficiency and logic were apparently not design constraints. Even a Civil Engineer could come up with a better plan, and they're not even real engineers.

P.S. Want to watch someone throw a fit? Walk up to an engineering major and say, "What's your major?" Whatever their response ("Mechanical Engineering" or "Electrical Engineering,") reply, "Oh. So you're not a real engineer."

P.S.S. You might want to duck after you say that last part.
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What if he is a train engineer? are those real engineers?
 
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