The Gospel

Hey I can really see the power of atheism working in my life! Not only am I happier, I'm far less gullible than the vast numbers of people who actually believe "truth comes faith". Thank you Kathy for showing me just what a fab path I'm on. Evidence leads to truth. Faith leads to fooling yourself and sounding inane.

P.S. Kathy, where did Jesus' Y chromosome come from? And don't you think it was an abuse of power when god inseminated mary without her consent...
And did mary give birth to god or jesus? And where did that holy ghost come from?
 
ned flandas said:
If you dont mind me asking, how did you lose your faith?
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For me, I was exposed to several different religions...each had infallible leaders and purpoted truths and ways you could "know" your religion was true (all manipulating confirmation bias)...So it seems you could know truth through a feeling...but lots of people with different beliefs had very strong feelings that their belief was true--heck, some people even killed themselves for their belief.

So what was a girl to do. I couldn't question god (it was arrogant...and I'd already been scolded by nuns for asking if god was in my butthole--since, he was supposedly EVERYWHERE). I was told I could get a calling (scary) and that Jesus could appear as a begger...but I wasn't supposed to talk to strangers...

It seemed to be quite the conundrum. And most adults seemed to believe that life was a test for the afterlife, but no one seemed to be doing very much to find out which infallible leader was true. I mean--this was ETERNITY we were talking about--why didn't my government care?!...shouldn't they be giving lie detectors to popes, prophets, gurus, etc. And in college, I learned greek myths and met people with even other beliefs and they all sounded equally unbelievable to me. People like to explain things and control things. They like to believe they have souls that live forever and that makes them open to manipulation to those who tell them these souls can suffer forever or live happily forever based on a person's belief.

I started to realize that none of the religions is true if souls aren't real. And there is no good evidence for souls. Consciousness seems very clearly to be a product of the brain. I worked with people who had assorted brain damage and studied others...and this seemed very clear to me. This guy, Clive Wearing, can't form any new memories because his hiccocampus is destroyed from a virus--every moment he feels like he is waking up for the first time after a long coma...always...every time he blinks he's newly awake...and you can't let him know about his condition because he can't remember anything new! So if you need a hippocampus to remember how can a soul be anything without a memory of what it was? How come those who are brain damaged and lose sight, smell, etc. don't have their "soul" filling in. It occurred to me that the soul is an illusion...just like the earth "seems" flat.

That means this life is the one to focus on! We are so lucky to live in a time when we can learn so much and share so much with other humans...

It became increasingly obvious to me that faith is a bad way to find truth.
Evidence is the best way to find truth. Truths based on evidence evolve and are honed...just like technology...mathamatical knowledge...astronomy...etc.

I don't feel like I lost faith. I feel like I found truth. And scientific knowledge is way more awe inspiring and understandable then so-called mystical truths (which are really only useful for feeling good or entertaining yourself when you're stoned.) Scientific knowledge gives us DNA, paternity testing, dinosaurs, carbon dating, computers, the internet...all knowledge evolving from knowledge that came before. Religions don't evolve. Religious miracles pale in comparison to scientific miracles that humans of generations past could never imagine--airplanes, cell phones, the internet, rockets, gps devices, sattlelite t.v.--what biblical miracle compares to that?

The earth was spherical even though humans for eons thought it was not...it was not the center of the universe even though humans thought that it was. (Holy books "forgot" to mention these truths). I think the same can be said of souls. They seem real, but they are an illusion that helps us cope with the understanding that we will die.
 
Dr Adequate said:
And I have seen this with my own eyes: some creationist wanted to debate with me, so I took him on. And some time through my argument, he said that I'd have to excuse myself for saying that thing to God forever when I was suffering in Hell. And he had a huge big grin on his face when he said it. The thought that I would be tortured forever caused him pleasure rather than distress.
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shame he didnt read the part about loving each other...
 
ned flandas
If they didnt care, then why did so many people flock to hear him and why did they crucify him?
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Because it was part of the story told 40 years later.
Step back and think about it. If people did flock to Jesus why did it take 40 years for someone to bother recording it? It’s much easier to write about something that supposedly happened two generations ago when you don’t have to worry about pesky witnesses showing up and saying you’re wrong.

Ossai
 
ned flandas said:
- so did you ever feel like you had a relationship with the God that Christians beleive in?
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Don't tell me - it's a DIFFERENT God than the one in the Old Testament, right? "Your God" isn't all about plagues, genocide, smearing dung all over his prophets, and holding the sun still for a day so that "his people" can have good light to slaughter, right?

You're NOT going to tell us that the God of the Old Testament ISN'T the God you mean, that he's changed his tune and is now a much nicer guy, right?

Let's face it - your God is the one who gave us Ten Suggestions which included "Thou Shalt Not Kill," yet he's the same one who tells us that if your wife, father, brother or child tries to tempt you into worshipping another God, you're supposed to kill them ON THE SPOT!

"Thou Shalt NOT Kill," apparently doesn't mean unruly children, witches, homosexuals or anyone God deems "bad" or "wrong."

No thanks! If you choose to worship such a fickle diety, it's all up to you, but you can't convince me that I have to kill in ANYONE'S name!
 
articulett said:
I don't feel like I lost faith. I feel like I found truth. And scientific knowledge is way more awe inspiring and understandable then so-called mystical truths (which are really only useful for feeling good or entertaining yourself when you're stoned.) Scientific knowledge gives us DNA, paternity testing, dinosaurs, carbon dating, computers, the internet...all knowledge evolving from knowledge that came before. Religions don't evolve. Religious miracles pale in comparison to scientific miracles that humans of generations past could never imagine--airplanes, cell phones, the internet, rockets, gps devices, sattlelite t.v.--what biblical miracle compares to that?

The earth was spherical even though humans for eons thought it was not...it was not the center of the universe even though humans thought that it was. (Holy books "forgot" to mention these truths). I think the same can be said of souls. They seem real, but they are an illusion that helps us cope with the understanding that we will die.
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Hi articulett, Your response here is very interesting. It does make me think about a few things like you are obviously referencing knowlege from man perspective. Knowlege according to mans wisdom. Does it really give us all the answers? I myself say absolutely not!

I have heard it said that we all want to be in a place where our theology and philosophy meet. But if you are trying to tell me that the soul does not exsist, then I would have to say I think you are being deceived! We all have a certain amount of built in knowlege that the soul does indeed exsist. You want evidence, well perhaps you aren't being open to see how God does work in our world. Our intutive nature and our intellectual being both co-exsist. So do humans with our creator. I believe everyone who denies God exsist has just not looked for Him hard enough!

I'm reading another book right now called Jesus Christ or Mohammed? by F.S. Coplestone. He makes these two statement that I would like to share with you.

The one and only true religion will be the one that reveals and proclaims that God has provided full redemption(paid in full) for sinners. This comes about by His grace(undeserved favour) alone.

and

Therefore, another hallmark of the one true religion will be that God's purpose to redeem mankind would be known from the beginning. Along with this would be known something of the Person of the Redeemer and the way in which He would accomplish Redemption.

Two very good points to ponder!
 
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Dr Adequate said:
No, but it sure beats the heck out of ignorance according to man's foolishness.
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Well I myself always think about the day when I meet God and am asked this one important question. "What did you do with my Son?" I hope that the things I do in my life will reflect His love with a world that needs it!
 
KK, you continue to talk about people just coming to faith in Jesus as if they always have a choice.

The question has been and still remains...what about those who have never heard of Jesus? You must realize that there are millions of people throughout history who have never even had any exposure to your religion. Children growing up in little villages throughout India. Those who live in the deepest jungles. Or even just those in civilized countries where christianity is not practiced (imagine that!).

You do realize, don't you, that THE MAJORITY of people on Earth even today are NOT christians. Your beliefs are considered by MOST PEOPLE on Earth as being wrong.

So by your standards (that people must accept Jesus as their savior, blah, blah, blah), in order not to suffer eternal damnation, you are condemning most people on Earth (including millions of children) to hell for something they couldn't possibly even do anything about. If they never even heard of your boy wonder, JC, and his big, bad dad, how can they possibly save themselves from eternal suffering and torment?

Your god would have them all burn in eternal flames for something over which they have absolutely no control.

And that's the question that several people here are trying to get you to answer.
 
articulett said:
I don't feel like I lost faith. I feel like I found truth. And scientific knowledge is way more awe inspiring and understandable then so-called mystical truths (which are really only useful for feeling good or entertaining yourself when you're stoned.) Scientific knowledge gives us DNA, paternity testing, dinosaurs, carbon dating, computers, the internet...all knowledge evolving from knowledge that came before. Religions don't evolve. Religious miracles pale in comparison to scientific miracles that humans of generations past could never imagine--airplanes, cell phones, the internet, rockets, gps devices, sattlelite t.v.--what biblical miracle compares to that?
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The miracle of bringing a person back to life seems a bit more spectacular than a rocket to me.

We can have a rocket, that explores more of what God created.

We can have satellite TV to watch more programmes about Gods earth and the people on it.

We can have cell phones to talk to more of the people that God created.

We can study the DNA that God designed.
 
ned flandas said:
The miracle of bringing a person back to life seems a bit more spectacular than a rocket to me.

We can have a rocket, that explores more of what God created.

We can have satellite TV to watch more programmes about Gods earth and the people on it.

We can have cell phones to talk to more of the people that God created.

We can study the DNA that God designed.
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I've seen a rocket, I've seen satellite TV, I've seen a cell phone. I have never seen someone come back from the dead. I've seen it in movies, and read it in BOOKS, but those were all FICTION.
 
ned flandas said:
what would be your reaction if you did see someone brought back from the dead??
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Well, if they were truly dead, as in no vital signs, no brain activity, and someone just waved their hands and said "rise" or something (in other words, I'm no talking about doctors with their paddles) then I would probably say something like, "Holy ◊◊◊◊!"
 
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