fromdownunder
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The trouble here is that it mostly takes them only a few posts to realise how out of their depth they are, and they go scuttling back to their own fawning on each other sites.
Norm
The Freeman Movement and England
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The trouble here is that it mostly takes them only a few posts to realise how out of their depth they are, and they go scuttling back to their own fawning on each other sites.
Norm
Stacey Grove
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It's a fair cop! Guilty as charged
RHolmes
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It's a fair cop! Guilty as charged
I admire your tenacity!
LightinDarkness
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The David Icke forums continue to be a hilarious look into the FOTL woo movement. Someone just posted something that - finally - summarizes how FOTL woos are supposed to act in the court room in order to be free of all statute law. So nice to know everything you have to do all in one place:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97326
Since its long, here is a summary:
1) You cannot give your name. Even though you are asked for your name, this is a devious plot to get you to admit that you are your corporate strawman. You must simply say that you are a interested third party.
2) You cannot go inside a court room without standing outside and telling the judge that you reserve all inalienable rights.
3) You must stand* at all times, because if you sit then you "under-stand" the law and become under the admiralty court.
*...EXCEPT
3a) You are to sit when the court says ALL RISE, because this way you show them that you are not under their corporation. If asked to stand out of respect for the office of the judge you are to tell them that you only stand before GOD and not CORPORATIONS. After doing all this, FOTL woo says that the court room is now YOURS. You control it.
4) If asked to state your name and address - DON'T DO IT! This is a evil diabolical attempt to get you to submit to their jurisdiction.
4a) If at any time the court uses a courtesy title for you (Mr, Mrs, etc.) you must correct them by telling them that you are not a corporation and do not have a title.
5) Tell the court when they use your name to address you that you are not a corporation. Because names are for corporations.
6) Demand that the judge tell you their oath. If they don't remember it on command, it proves they are a shill for a corporate government.
6a) When he doesn't give his oath you can tell the judge that you have fired him and that he can leave the court.
7) Although the judge will clearly cower before your power now, he may still "threaten" your sovereign person with contempt of court. You can feel free to tell the judge that he can't hold you in contempt because you don't consent to contract.
8) Since this is all a secret plot to get you to submit to admiralty law, you cannot pass the bar (because that would be getting on their ship!) and you cannot accept any "dockets" because docks are for ships!
...And they wonder why they get thrown in to jail after pulling all these shenanigans.
Its all so comical that these people really believe that the judicial system is nothing more than a kids game where everyone is trying to secretly plot against you to submit to their admiralty ship - and if you don't - you can do whatever you want!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97326
Since its long, here is a summary:
1) You cannot give your name. Even though you are asked for your name, this is a devious plot to get you to admit that you are your corporate strawman. You must simply say that you are a interested third party.
2) You cannot go inside a court room without standing outside and telling the judge that you reserve all inalienable rights.
3) You must stand* at all times, because if you sit then you "under-stand" the law and become under the admiralty court.
*...EXCEPT
3a) You are to sit when the court says ALL RISE, because this way you show them that you are not under their corporation. If asked to stand out of respect for the office of the judge you are to tell them that you only stand before GOD and not CORPORATIONS. After doing all this, FOTL woo says that the court room is now YOURS. You control it.
4) If asked to state your name and address - DON'T DO IT! This is a evil diabolical attempt to get you to submit to their jurisdiction.
4a) If at any time the court uses a courtesy title for you (Mr, Mrs, etc.) you must correct them by telling them that you are not a corporation and do not have a title.
5) Tell the court when they use your name to address you that you are not a corporation. Because names are for corporations.
6) Demand that the judge tell you their oath. If they don't remember it on command, it proves they are a shill for a corporate government.
6a) When he doesn't give his oath you can tell the judge that you have fired him and that he can leave the court.
7) Although the judge will clearly cower before your power now, he may still "threaten" your sovereign person with contempt of court. You can feel free to tell the judge that he can't hold you in contempt because you don't consent to contract.
8) Since this is all a secret plot to get you to submit to admiralty law, you cannot pass the bar (because that would be getting on their ship!) and you cannot accept any "dockets" because docks are for ships!
...And they wonder why they get thrown in to jail after pulling all these shenanigans.
Its all so comical that these people really believe that the judicial system is nothing more than a kids game where everyone is trying to secretly plot against you to submit to their admiralty ship - and if you don't - you can do whatever you want!
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LightinDarkness
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There are cases where the FOTL woos "win" by pulling these sort of shenanigans because they get merciful and tired judges who, for minor things like traffic tickets, just let it go rather than deal with the hassle. They never win because the basis of their legal theory is correct - since its total woo - but they do sometimes get a hit by simply harassing the judge or members of the court staff.
Of course, when they do get those small "victories", they trumpet it as proof for FOTL "legal theory."
LightinDarkness
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Upon my weekly browsing of the FOTL nutcase forums I came across this lovely video that I am sure JREFers will appreciate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CriJmEBgWQ0&feature=player_embedded#
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a genuine FOTL woo practicing his woo in court - on tape! And its quite a treat to watch. It appears as though whats going on is the defendant FOTLer has filed so many off the wall motions that the judge has decided he has to be represented by a lawyer. Before the case the court had ruled that he was allowed to represent himself, but now I guess the judge is concerned enough about his sanity due to his legal filings that he is forcing him to be defended by an attorney. Notice he carefully followed all the FOTL woo tenets by never sitting down (since doing so would mean he submits to their Admiralty authority!).
It looks like what he did is file a bunch of non-sense made up legal motions protesting the jurisdiction of the court because its a corporation and as we all know corporations have no jurisdiction over flesh and blood human beings!
About the only thing they seemed to succeed in doing is pissing off the judge, which is always REALLY smart to do...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CriJmEBgWQ0&feature=player_embedded#
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a genuine FOTL woo practicing his woo in court - on tape! And its quite a treat to watch. It appears as though whats going on is the defendant FOTLer has filed so many off the wall motions that the judge has decided he has to be represented by a lawyer. Before the case the court had ruled that he was allowed to represent himself, but now I guess the judge is concerned enough about his sanity due to his legal filings that he is forcing him to be defended by an attorney. Notice he carefully followed all the FOTL woo tenets by never sitting down (since doing so would mean he submits to their Admiralty authority!).
It looks like what he did is file a bunch of non-sense made up legal motions protesting the jurisdiction of the court because its a corporation and as we all know corporations have no jurisdiction over flesh and blood human beings!
About the only thing they seemed to succeed in doing is pissing off the judge, which is always REALLY smart to do...
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LightinDarkness
Master Poster
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Oh dear, I made my previous post to soon..because it gets better (if such were possible):
We have more tapes of the following court sessions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp8yN6smc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UTwwjvah8
- Wherein the FOTL tries the "FOTL gotcha" by forcing the judge to recite her oath and telling her that without reciting her oath she cannot sit in judgment over him as a member of a corporation.
- Wherein the FOTL woo indicates that he can't bother to deal with the judge reading his legal woo filings because hes on a tight schedule.
- Wherein he tells the judge he will not have any attorney AT-LAW (I think this is a FOTL woo tenet where the term "lawful" is part of the legal fiction word and "legal" is different and only applies to FOTLers).
- Wherein he informs the judge that previous legal rulings in his case do not apply because they didn't have jurisdiction.
- Wherein he demands the nationality of the judge because clearly she works for a corporation and not a real government.
- Wherein he informs the judge that he has decided her application to proceed with his legal matters is denied by him.
- Wherein the judge even tries to help him out (after the FOTL woo tells the judge she is denied for assigning him a case) by telling him that he can bring the legal issue about jurisdiction by filing certain forms and she will rule on it. In response he tells her that its not his problem that she is not upholding the law and that they (judge, attorneys, etc.) had all been fired by him.
I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't even get to the next video because this guy is such a lunatic. And in the end. After all that...it accomplishes NOTHING for him. The look of the poor public defender assigned to him that has to sit and watch all this is priceless...
BEST LINE OF THE VIDEO:
FOTL Nutcase: "Objection! I am not a party to society and am therefore not part of your courtroom rules!"
...Another FOTL "success" in the making
We have more tapes of the following court sessions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp8yN6smc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UTwwjvah8
- Wherein the FOTL tries the "FOTL gotcha" by forcing the judge to recite her oath and telling her that without reciting her oath she cannot sit in judgment over him as a member of a corporation.
- Wherein the FOTL woo indicates that he can't bother to deal with the judge reading his legal woo filings because hes on a tight schedule.
- Wherein he tells the judge he will not have any attorney AT-LAW (I think this is a FOTL woo tenet where the term "lawful" is part of the legal fiction word and "legal" is different and only applies to FOTLers).
- Wherein he informs the judge that previous legal rulings in his case do not apply because they didn't have jurisdiction.
- Wherein he demands the nationality of the judge because clearly she works for a corporation and not a real government.
- Wherein he informs the judge that he has decided her application to proceed with his legal matters is denied by him.
- Wherein the judge even tries to help him out (after the FOTL woo tells the judge she is denied for assigning him a case) by telling him that he can bring the legal issue about jurisdiction by filing certain forms and she will rule on it. In response he tells her that its not his problem that she is not upholding the law and that they (judge, attorneys, etc.) had all been fired by him.
I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't even get to the next video because this guy is such a lunatic. And in the end. After all that...it accomplishes NOTHING for him. The look of the poor public defender assigned to him that has to sit and watch all this is priceless...
BEST LINE OF THE VIDEO:
FOTL Nutcase: "Objection! I am not a party to society and am therefore not part of your courtroom rules!"
...Another FOTL "success" in the making
Last edited:
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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Oh dear, I made my previous post to soon..because it gets better (if such were possible):
We have more tapes of the following court sessions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp8yN6smc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UTwwjvah8
- Wherein the FOTL tries the "FOTL gotcha" by forcing the judge to recite her oath and telling her that without reciting her oath she cannot sit in judgment over him as a member of a corporation.
- Wherein the FOTL woo indicates that he can't bother to deal with the judge reading his legal woo filings because hes on a tight schedule.
- Wherein he tells the judge he will not have any attorney AT-LAW (I think this is a FOTL woo tenet where the term "lawful" is part of the legal fiction word and "legal" is different and only applies to FOTLers).
- Wherein he informs the judge that previous legal rulings in his case do not apply because they didn't have jurisdiction.
- Wherein he demands the nationality of the judge because clearly she works for a corporation and not a real government.
- Wherein he informs the judge that he has decided her application to proceed with his legal matters is denied by him.
- Wherein the judge even tries to help him out (after the FOTL woo tells the judge she is denied for assigning him a case) by telling him that he can bring the legal issue about jurisdiction by filing certain forms and she will rule on it. In response he tells her that its not his problem that she is not upholding the law and that they (judge, attorneys, etc.) had all been fired by him.
I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't even get to the next video because this guy is such a lunatic. And in the end. After all that...it accomplishes NOTHING for him. The look of the poor public defender assigned to him that has to sit and watch all this is priceless...
BEST LINE OF THE VIDEO:
FOTL Nutcase: "Objection! I am not a party to society and am therefore not part of your courtroom rules!"
...Another FOTL "success" in the making
FOTL law. It can turn a routine traffic stop into jail time.
That guy had paper everywhere except the one he was looking for but then he was playing the wrong game. Only Monopoly has a "get out of jail free" card.
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
Pantaz
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...Another FOTL "success" in the making
Wow.
It gets even better! Look what I found Googling "Marrakush Society" (from the YouTube title):
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY
Marrakush Society v. New Jersey State Police
July 30, 2009
I. INTRODUCTION
The above-captioned nineteen actions appear to be a part of the influx of civil cases initiated over the recent months by the same group of litigants in various federal courts.
. . .
A. MARRAKUSH SOCIETY
It is unclear to this Court, from the face of the numerous pleadings currently before the Court, whether the Marrakush Society is an actual juridical entity. However, it is certain that Marrakush Society exists online as a "MySpace" social webpage. The heading of the webpage -- a section containing the phrase "Marrakush Society" (garnished with both federal and state trademark symbols) -- offers the visitor the Marrakush Society's logo, which is an a type of pyramid, and invites the visitor to send a message, find a friend and to add a comment. In addition, this section clarifies that the Marrakush Society is located in "Marankokush Principality, Timbuctoo Territory, Samal Shariq, MA," a non-existing geographic designation. The body of the webpage offers the visitor four tabs. Two tabs, titled "Treaty" and "Contact Us," open to nothing but blank pages. One tab, titled "MKST" (seemingly, abbreviating the term "Marrakush Society"), contains nothing but a larger image of the very same Aztec pyramid logo. Finally, the tab titled "Marrakush Empire" opens to a page containing a paragraph of writing and a picture of an ancient Egyptian symbol of protection, known as "the Eye of Ra" or "the Eye of Horus." See David P. Silverman, Ancient Egypt (1994). The paragraph spells the word "Marrakush" as "Murakush" (i.e., by utilizing the now-archaic Berber phrase meaning "Land of God," which was used in the Medieval Morocco to designate the city of Marrakesh) and copying the history of Morocco from two sources: (a) Wikipedia, and (b) an article by Linda D. Kozaryn, titled "Cohen Renews U.S.-Morocco Ties."
In light of the above-described peculiar mix of references to Malian, Egyptian and Moroccan references, employ of an imaginary geographic designation and quasi-Arabic terms, as well as reproduction of web articles without designation of the source of the information, it is unclear to this Court whether the Marrakush Society is actually a bona fide juridical entity (that is, a corporation, partnership, limited liability company or the like) or simply amaterialization of someone's interest in obtaining an imprimatur of legitimacy through authorship of an Internet social webpage.
Marrakush Society v. New Jersey State Police
July 30, 2009
I. INTRODUCTION
The above-captioned nineteen actions appear to be a part of the influx of civil cases initiated over the recent months by the same group of litigants in various federal courts.
. . .
A. MARRAKUSH SOCIETY
It is unclear to this Court, from the face of the numerous pleadings currently before the Court, whether the Marrakush Society is an actual juridical entity. However, it is certain that Marrakush Society exists online as a "MySpace" social webpage. The heading of the webpage -- a section containing the phrase "Marrakush Society" (garnished with both federal and state trademark symbols) -- offers the visitor the Marrakush Society's logo, which is an a type of pyramid, and invites the visitor to send a message, find a friend and to add a comment. In addition, this section clarifies that the Marrakush Society is located in "Marankokush Principality, Timbuctoo Territory, Samal Shariq, MA," a non-existing geographic designation. The body of the webpage offers the visitor four tabs. Two tabs, titled "Treaty" and "Contact Us," open to nothing but blank pages. One tab, titled "MKST" (seemingly, abbreviating the term "Marrakush Society"), contains nothing but a larger image of the very same Aztec pyramid logo. Finally, the tab titled "Marrakush Empire" opens to a page containing a paragraph of writing and a picture of an ancient Egyptian symbol of protection, known as "the Eye of Ra" or "the Eye of Horus." See David P. Silverman, Ancient Egypt (1994). The paragraph spells the word "Marrakush" as "Murakush" (i.e., by utilizing the now-archaic Berber phrase meaning "Land of God," which was used in the Medieval Morocco to designate the city of Marrakesh) and copying the history of Morocco from two sources: (a) Wikipedia, and (b) an article by Linda D. Kozaryn, titled "Cohen Renews U.S.-Morocco Ties."
In light of the above-described peculiar mix of references to Malian, Egyptian and Moroccan references, employ of an imaginary geographic designation and quasi-Arabic terms, as well as reproduction of web articles without designation of the source of the information, it is unclear to this Court whether the Marrakush Society is actually a bona fide juridical entity (that is, a corporation, partnership, limited liability company or the like) or simply amaterialization of someone's interest in obtaining an imprimatur of legitimacy through authorship of an Internet social webpage.
There is way too much to copy/paste here. Apparently the associated "Aboriginal Law Firm" is also little more than a few web pages:
The "Partners and Clients" page of the website asserts the Aboriginal Law Firm's association with numerous imaginary organizations and a handful of actually existing ones (although the names of the latter are systemically misspelled)...
As far as I can tell, it all started with somebody being evicted:
The only pertinent fact asserted was the statement that unspecified residents of a certain real estate were evicted, but this fact was not developed into a coherent allegation.
...
Judge Hurley, presiding over the Florida Action - I, denied the motion stating that "the court is unable to determine from the emergency motion exactly what relief plaintiff is seeking from [certain defendants]; what it is that [these defendants and other defendants] are alleged to have done; why plaintiff is entitled to any relief; or even what the case is generally about. The complaint makes only vague and confusing allegations [which] are simply too obscure to justify any emergency ex parte relief . . . ."
...
Judge Hurley, presiding over the Florida Action - I, denied the motion stating that "the court is unable to determine from the emergency motion exactly what relief plaintiff is seeking from [certain defendants]; what it is that [these defendants and other defendants] are alleged to have done; why plaintiff is entitled to any relief; or even what the case is generally about. The complaint makes only vague and confusing allegations [which] are simply too obscure to justify any emergency ex parte relief . . . ."
Seems that after their first two cases got drop-kicked out of court, they got a little miffed -- They filed 25 additional actions between May 2009 and July 2009.
With idiots like this it's no wonder the court system is so back-logged.
Be sure to read "i. Civil Action No. 09-2518" on the linked page
Here's a sample...
"Upon exiting the Mobile Vessel, JOHN DOE, and another unidentified agent for the Defendant the NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE, grabbed the arms of my Solar Vessel and chained the Carpomedicarpols of my Solar Vessel together."
Mojo
Mostly harmless
332nd
Penultimate Amazing
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- 11,278
Oh dear, I made my previous post to soon..because it gets better (if such were possible):
We have more tapes of the following court sessions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp8yN6smc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08UTwwjvah8
- Wherein the FOTL tries the "FOTL gotcha" by forcing the judge to recite her oath and telling her that without reciting her oath she cannot sit in judgment over him as a member of a corporation.
- Wherein the FOTL woo indicates that he can't bother to deal with the judge reading his legal woo filings because hes on a tight schedule.
- Wherein he tells the judge he will not have any attorney AT-LAW (I think this is a FOTL woo tenet where the term "lawful" is part of the legal fiction word and "legal" is different and only applies to FOTLers).
- Wherein he informs the judge that previous legal rulings in his case do not apply because they didn't have jurisdiction.
- Wherein he demands the nationality of the judge because clearly she works for a corporation and not a real government.
- Wherein he informs the judge that he has decided her application to proceed with his legal matters is denied by him.
- Wherein the judge even tries to help him out (after the FOTL woo tells the judge she is denied for assigning him a case) by telling him that he can bring the legal issue about jurisdiction by filing certain forms and she will rule on it. In response he tells her that its not his problem that she is not upholding the law and that they (judge, attorneys, etc.) had all been fired by him.
I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't even get to the next video because this guy is such a lunatic. And in the end. After all that...it accomplishes NOTHING for him. The look of the poor public defender assigned to him that has to sit and watch all this is priceless...
BEST LINE OF THE VIDEO:
FOTL Nutcase: "Objection! I am not a party to society and am therefore not part of your courtroom rules!"
...Another FOTL "success" in the making
The comments are hilarious. Judge getting mad=ZOMG! it's working!
Mojo
Mostly harmless
This would appear to be the "Delaware Action" referred to there:
http://www.ded.uscourts.gov/SLR/Opinions/Mar2009/09-144.pdf
A pity we don't have the results of the next hearing.
More accurately, it would be really nice if someone could post (and link to) the ultimate outcome of these cases, for the benefit of the YouTube groupies who are actually thinking that this was a "success."
I have $20 in my pocket that says Mr. El drew jail time. I have another $20 that says he drew more jail time than he would have if he had just cooperated with his public defender. And a lot of the people who are cheering him on seem oddly unaware of that.
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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- 39,049
From the document:
"He stated that there was a warrant under the "Name" Shyaam and began to use his hands to examine the pockets attached to the trousers and coat covering my Solar Vessel. He also used his hands to examine the Indigenous genital areas of my Solar Vessel. Upon completion of his examination, my Solar Vessel was then forced into the back of a Vessel or conveyance bearing the Corporate Name "NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE", and trafficked to a fixture being administered by the Defendant the NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE: domiciled within the Shecabee Principality in the Zankikan Territory, of the Samal Shariq Abeka Region; Samal Marika."
I didn't know vessels had genitals!
LightinDarkness
Master Poster
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- Jun 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,583
According to the PDF linked by Mojo (great find, by the way!) even if we don't know the outcome we can definitely say he made things harder on himself by following the FOTL woo - he was arrested at every hearing for refusing to sign a form that he agreed to appear at the next hearing (since that would be giving them jurisdiction, of course! Those dirty courts and their tricks...)
So, the FOTLer practices the woo accordingly and gets thrown in jail not once but twice for refusing to sign routine forms indicating he agreed to show up to the next hearing. But, my fellow JREFers, it gets even better!
So he gets his bail increased for practicing FOTL shenanigans, and then refuses to post bail anyways since that would, of course, be a trick to grand the court jurisdiction (I saw this on the FOTL woo board on David Icke when one of their members got arrested after pulling this stuff).
I'm sure the court loved that one. I wonder when he'll get the check for his fees?
So after all of the filing of frivolous legal motions, being thrown in jail at least twice for refusing to sign routine documents...hes back where he started. FOTL - it just works!
LightinDarkness
Master Poster
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From the document:
"He stated that there was a warrant under the "Name" Shyaam and began to use his hands to examine the pockets attached to the trousers and coat covering my Solar Vessel. He also used his hands to examine the Indigenous genital areas of my Solar Vessel. Upon completion of his examination, my Solar Vessel was then forced into the back of a Vessel or conveyance bearing the Corporate Name "NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE", and trafficked to a fixture being administered by the Defendant the NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE: domiciled within the Shecabee Principality in the Zankikan Territory, of the Samal Shariq Abeka Region; Samal Marika."
I didn't know vessels had genitals!
Can you imagine the laugh the lawyers must have reading this stuff? According to FOTL woo you have to let the court know that your all in on their "admiralty" game by always separating your strawman vessel from your on-dry-land person. The result, of course, is hilarious FOTL legal affidavits like the above.
fromdownunder
Philosopher
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- 6,721
From the document:
"He stated that there was a warrant under the "Name" Shyaam and began to use his hands to examine the pockets attached to the trousers and coat covering my Solar Vessel. He also used his hands to examine the Indigenous genital areas of my Solar Vessel. Upon completion of his examination, my Solar Vessel was then forced into the back of a Vessel or conveyance bearing the Corporate Name "NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE", and trafficked to a fixture being administered by the Defendant the NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE: domiciled within the Shecabee Principality in the Zankikan Territory, of the Samal Shariq Abeka Region; Samal Marika."
I didn't know vessels had genitals!
Eeewwww!!! This has put me off sex for life.
Norm
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