The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V

[jonesdave116]

also tusenfem.





How long are comet tails again? Cylinders, helical, and currents! Imagine if counter rotation was also discovered...sound familiar.

Nope. Please explain. Looks like more unscientific word salad to me.

 

[JeanTate]

I have started a new thread, Apparent inconsistencies in our scientific understanding of comets:

I am starting this thread out of frustration at the lack of relevant content in the The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V thread.

Initially that thread - or rather, its predecessors - kept more or less on target, and there were many posts on electric comet models etc, and discussions thereon.

For quite some time now, however, the thread has had ~zero such; rather, ones like this, from earlier today:



I hope this thread can be a place to discuss apparent inconsisencies in, and ask questions about, the contemporary understanding of comets. Scientifically.

I hope this thread (The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V) will, from now on, be reserved for discussion of electric comet models, SAFIRE, and closely related topics.

Here is my understanding of what some of the key elements of all electric comet models are:

- comets origins are the solid surface of Earth
- they are created by giant lighting bolts
- such as are common when Venus comes within ~tens of thousands of kms of the Earth
- most are young, say a few thousand years old
- comets are solid rock
- comets exhibit cometary behavior due to the passage through the intense electric field which is centered on the Sun
- AND their high static charge
- AND their highly elliptical orbits
- comet tails and jets are caused by EDM
- water observed on comets is due to electrochemistry

Please feel free to add other key components that I may have misssed.

 

[jonesdave116]

Here is my understanding of what some of the key elements of all electric comet models are:

- comets origins are the solid surface of Earth
- they are created by giant lighting bolts
- such as are common when Venus comes within ~tens of thousands of kms of the Earth
- most are young, say a few thousand years old
- comets are solid rock
- comets exhibit cometary behavior due to the passage through the intense electric field which is centered on the Sun
- AND their high static charge
- AND their highly elliptical orbits
- comet tails and jets are caused by EDM
- water observed on comets is due to electrochemistry

Please feel free to add other key components that I may have missed.

Ahhh, you see Jean, that is why you needed to start a separate thread! Because the above claims re the EC have already been shown to be wrong. Trivially. Therefore, the last thing EC proponents want to do is to discuss their 'model'! As it has failed horribly, as expected. In fact, it had already failed when T & T produced their 'poster' to an IEEE meeting, in 2006 (which was never presented, I believe).

 

[JeanTate]

Ahhh, you see Jean, that is why you needed to start a separate thread! Because the above claims re the EC have already been shown to be wrong. Trivially. Therefore, the last thing EC proponents want to do is to discuss their 'model'! As it has failed horribly, as expected. In fact, it had already failed when T & T produced their 'poster' to an IEEE meeting, in 2006 (which was never presented, I believe).

Indeed.

If no one wishes to try to present, and defend, any Electric Comet Theory (or anything to do with SAFIRE), then this thread will drift down the main page, and eventually exit, to be found by only those who search for it. Just like sooooo many other electric universe related threads (and indeed those related to plasma cosmology too).

 

[jonesdave116]

On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae Erik Vigren and Anders I. Eriksson

Deca or Vigren?

Why not read Deca's latest paper;

Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law
J. Deca, Pierre Henri, A Divin, A. Eriksson, M. Galand, A. Beth, K.Ostaszewski, M. Horányi (2019)
https://hal-insu.archives-ouvertes.fr/insu-02271293/document

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sool88's insane worship of his demented cult prophets., in this case the cult insanity of Birkeland currents wherever they imagine them with Donald Scott and his delusions.
A summary of Donald Scott's EU delusions supplied from Sol88's posts.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's persistent insanity of asking about mainstream ices and dust comet papers.

For others:
The answer is Deca J., et. al. and Vigren, et. al.!
We have detected a diamagnetic cavity at 67P. Both papers and the quotes state that the detected diamagnetic cavity exists !
Both papers give similar mechanisms to create the cavity. Decca: "plasma-neutral collisions", Vigren: not "ion-neutral collisional coupling" (so including plasma-neutral collisions).
Vigren has the extra textbook plasma physics of a non-negligible ambipolar electric field not mentioned in Deca.

 

[tusenfem]

also tusenfem.

And I stand to what I write.
Nevertheless thus guy mixed up missions and thought that the outside of a satellite is covered with copper.

How long are comet tails again? Cylinders, helical, and currents! Imagine if counter rotation was also discovered...sound familiar.

yes you are a great wordsmith, but then again "praatjes vullen geen gaatjes"
you throw around terms as if you know what they mean or as like the combination of words is somehow profound (anywhere else outside your head)
but nothing qualitative, let alone quantitative is coming from you or the EC gang
fortunately with you, the antimathemagician, we don't need to hear the silly "the math fir thus plasma physics does not exist yet"

 

[JeanTate]

jd16, RC, tusenfem: would you please, please, please not post in this thread any more, except to propose electric comet theories (or models) or discuss any which have been presented? Ditto re SAFIRE?

Instead, why not post to the new thread, Apparent inconsistencies in our scientific understanding of comets?

 

[Reality Check]

jd16, RC, tusenfem: would you please, please, please not post in this thread any more, except to propose electric comet theories (or models) or discuss any which have been presented? Ditto re SAFIRE?

Instead, why not post to the new thread, Apparent inconsistencies in our scientific understanding of comets?

If Sol88 posts his usual insanity here, I will reply pointing out that it is his usual insanity. That may involve informing lurkers about our scientific understanding of comets.

 

[Sol88]

I have started a new thread, Apparent inconsistencies in our scientific understanding of comets:


I hope this thread (The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V) will, from now on, be reserved for discussion of electric comet models, SAFIRE, and closely related topics.

Here is my understanding of what some of the key elements of all electric comet models are:

- comets origins are the solid surface of Earth
- they are created by giant lighting bolts
- such as are common when Venus comes within ~tens of thousands of kms of the Earth
- most are young, say a few thousand years old
- comets are solid rock
- comets exhibit cometary behavior due to the passage through the intense electric field which is centered on the Sun
- AND their high static charge
- AND their highly elliptical orbits
- comet tails and jets are caused by EDM
- water observed on comets is due to electrochemistry

Please feel free to add other key components that I may have misssed.

Oh, know I see your problem jean tate.

At least you got rock correct.

 

[Sol88]

Indeed.

If no one wishes to try to present, and defend, any Electric Comet Theory (or anything to do with SAFIRE), then this thread will drift down the main page, and eventually exit, to be found by only those who search for it. Just like sooooo many other electric universe related threads (and indeed those related to plasma cosmology too).

Classic.


Circle the wagons boys!

The plasma physics around a weakly outgassing is only slowly beginning to be understood by the analysis of data from Rosetta RPC and new numerical modelling. This mission has opened a new window in space plasma physics.

tusenfem


And you arrogant zealots think cometary science is settled.


Or better still and since the the lad is on this thread, are you able to explain The following cryptic comment

This mission has opened a new window in space plasma physics.

How’s ideal MHD holding up since we started this thread?

In the regions where the electron pressure gradient dominates a strong ambipolar electric field is present, e.g., near the outgassing cometary nucleus [43,44,49]. Here the electric field can do work and accelerate electrons parallel to the magnetic field towards the comet [Figs. 2(i) and 2(j)]. Hence, providing further evidence that the ambipolar electric field generates the suprathermal electron population close to the comet[7,43,44].Notethattheanalysispresented here cannot exclude an extra electron acceleration source through lower-hybrid waves [50]. In addition, in the perpendicular direction [Fig. 2(j)], a symmetric structure is not expected because of the near-comet cross-field acceleration, i.e., the beginning of the pickup process.

Oh, it CAN do work now, as I said it does.

Like electrochemical reactions.

Removing rock to dust.

I just happy I’ve been shown, by some great thinkers, to be correct.


And

I more than patient enough just to sit back and let’s the people that get PAID to write peer reviewed papers, come up with a new window on space plasma.

Strong double layers!

 

[Sol88]

And I stand to what I write.
Nevertheless thus guy mixed up missions and thought that the outside of a satellite is covered with copper.




yes you are a great wordsmith, but then again "praatjes vullen geen gaatjes"
you throw around terms as if you know what they mean or as like the combination of words is somehow profound (anywhere else outside your head)
but nothing qualitative, let alone quantitative is coming from you or the EC gang
fortunately with you, the antimathemagician, we don't need to hear the silly "the math fir thus plasma physics does not exist yet"

Well you did publish this statement

5 Harris and co.

In a region where oppositely directed magnetic fields meet, a current sheet will be generated, by necessity of Amp`ere’s law:

Also from tusenfem

This kind of structure is reminiscent of the helical waves in cometary tails that were first observed at comet Kohoutek (C/1973 E1, 1973 XII, or 1973f) by Hyder et al. (1974). It was assumed that this was created by a kink-like instability created by the current flowing along the field lines down the tail (see also Ip & Mendis 1975). Later Ershkovich & Heller (1977) also discussed these waves in tails of comets Morehouse (C/1908 R1) and Arend-Roland (C/1965 R1).

For all comet tails ya reckon?

‘Cos

Comet C/1996 B2 (Hyakutake) Edit
On May 1, 1996, the spacecraft unexpectedly crossed the ion tail of Comet Hyakutake (C/1996 B2), revealing the tail to be at least 3.8 AU in length.[10][11]

Comet C/1999 T1 (McNaught–Hartley) Edit
An encounter with a comet tail happened again in 1999 when Ulysses flew through the ion tailings of C/1999 T1 (McNaught-Hartley). A coronal mass ejection carried the cometary material to Ulysses.[11][12]

wiki


Is this looking thru this

new window on space plasma

?


I’m not good at the math but there must be massive electric currents threading the solar system. Do they radiate in the radio spectrum?

 

[JeanTate]

Content not relevant to the topic of this thread, electric comet theory (and SAFIRE) snipped.

{null set}

This is getting pretty darn weary, Sol88.

Indistinguishable from spam, wouldn't you say?

I've been reading some of the threads jd16, tusenfem, and Ziggarut provided links to. There is (or was, the account is banned) in the Cosmoquest Forum with the same name as you (Sol88). Many posts by that person strongly resemble many of your recent ones here. Interesting. Almost as if there's been no developments in the past several years!

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's insane lie that JeanTate only got the rock part of the electric comet insanity right.

Here is my understanding of what some of the key elements of all electric comet models are:

- comets origins are the solid surface of Earth [mostly correct]
- they are created by giant lighting bolts [correct]
- such as are common when Venus comes within ~tens of thousands of kms of the Earth [mostly correct]
- most are young, say a few thousand years old [partially correct]
- comets are solid rock [correct]
- comets exhibit cometary behavior due to the passage through the intense electric field which is centered on the Sun [correct]
- AND their high static charge [correct]
- AND their highly elliptical orbits [correct]
- comet tails and jets are caused by EDM [correct]
- water observed on comets is due to electrochemistry. [partially correct]

My "[...correct]" comments added from the publicly available electric comet insanity that we have been discussing for 10 years now.

The electric comet insanity is comet origins are the surfaces of unnamed rocky planets which have to be Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.

The electric comet insanity is that Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars whizz around the Solar System blasting each other with giant lighting bolts. But Earth violates the Thunderbolts cult insanity by not obeying their demented laws of physics and remaining in roughly same orbit for billions of years !

The electric comet insanity is that some of these giant lighting bolts were witnessed and recorded by us in myths.

The electric comet insanity is that comets are solid rock with either no ices or "little ices" depending on the day and which demented prophet we ask.

The electric comet insanity is "comets exhibit cometary behavior due to the passage through the intense electric field which is centered on the Sun" via "high static charge" caused by "highly elliptical orbits". It is that electric field that tears solid rock apart into the tiny dust grains and even gases that make up comet coma and tails.

The electric comet insanity is that EDM is the mechanism that sculpts the solid rock surface of comet nuclei to form the dust grains and even gases as above.

The electric comet insanity from Dr. Franklin Anariba is more than just "water observed on comets is due to electrochemistry". The cult has water being produced on comet surfaces by electrical discharges. Anariba's delusions are mostly about comet coma and their composition. He takes the cult insanity of comets being solid, charged rock and spins his own fairy stories about comet. Dr. Franklin Anariba's EU 2013 talk makes it very clear that Anariba has fallen for the demented cult's electric comet insanity. Giving a talk at a conference of deluded cranks suggests that Anariba is a deluded crank.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

For others:
tusenfem wrote mainstream physics in his paper:

In a region where oppositely directed magnetic fields meet, a current sheet will be generated, by necessity of Ampere’s law

and

This kind of structure is reminiscent of the helical waves in cometary tails that were first observed at comet Kohoutek (C/1973 E1, 1973 XII, or 1973f) by Hyder et al. (1974). It was assumed that this was created by a kink-like instability created by the current flowing along the field lines down the tail (see also Ip & Mendis 1975). Later Ershkovich & Heller (1977) also discussed these waves in tails of comets Morehouse (C/1908 R1) and Arend-Roland (C/1965 R1).

Anyone can read that the subject is current sheets and electric currents inside comet tails.

But we get Sol88's insane statement about electric currents everywhere inside the System !

 

[jonesdave116]

I more than patient enough just to sit back and let’s the people that get PAID to write peer reviewed papers, come up with a new window on space plasma.

Strong double layers!

Nope. Not seen, not expected to be seen. Neither you, nor anybody else in your cult, knows the first thing about plasma physics. You are a bunch of Velikovskian loons, with zero understanding of any of the relevant science. That is why you are totally ignored by real science.

 

[jonesdave116]

Well you did publish this statement

Also from tusenfem




For all comet tails ya reckon?

‘Cos wiki


Is this looking thru this
?


I’m not good at the math but there must be massive electric currents threading the solar system. Do they radiate in the radio spectrum?

Not only are you not good at maths, you do not understand Jack about any of the relevant science. Hence why nobody takes you seriously. Stick to Earth orbiting Saturn, or whatever idiocy you believe in. Leave science to those that understand it. That does not include anybody in your cult.

 

[mgidm86]

At what point does a thread in the science forum get sent to the woo area? Ever? I can't tell the two sub-forums apart.

Too many of the threads I see here are frickin stupid.

How are these threads so popular if so many people think they are bull? Can't people ignore the morons and trolls? I guess it's like Reality TV - people just can't stop looking at idiots doing stupid things.

Just a suggestion: move such threads. The "science" in this thread, for example, has been thoroughly debunked, therefore this is not science. If it ever was it sure as hell isn't now.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...D

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's insanity that pointing out how insanely irrelevant his posts are is us "circling the wagons". Sol88 has not posted anything except insane lies about his demented electric comet dogma for a long time. The majority of his posts for the last few years have been insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. about mainstream comets, astronomers, posts and posters,.

Sol88's insane insults of posters.
We (his "arrogant zealots") know basic facts abut the real world unlike Sol88. No science is ever settled because always questioning science is the part of the scientific process. Scientists collect data to test science. There will be missions to return samples from comet nuclei because science is never settled. There will be manned missions to comets because science is never settled.

Sol88's insane lies about what he quotes.

The plasma physics around a weakly outgassing is only slowly beginning to be understood by the analysis of data from Rosetta RPC and new numerical modelling. This mission has opened a new window in space plasma physics.

This is easily understood English.
Before Rosetta, the physics of plasma interactions around comets relied on data collected remotely, e.g. on Earth. Rosetta gave us a massive amount of local data about comet 67p over 2 years.

Sol88's insane lies about ideal MHD.
We do not discuss ideal MHD with an insanely ignorant supporter of a demented cult and its dogma. Ideal MHD has stood up for 60 years not the 10 years since the start of this thread and is still valid within its documented limitations - then we have resistive MHD!

Sol88's insane delusions of "electrochemical reactions" and "rock to dust".

Sol88's persistent insane double layer delusions.