The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V

[jonesdave116]

At what point does a thread in the science forum get sent to the woo area? Ever? I can't tell the two sub-forums apart.

Too many of the threads I see here are frickin stupid.

How are these threads so popular if so many people think they are bull? Can't people ignore the morons and trolls? I guess it's like Reality TV - people just can't stop looking at idiots doing stupid things.

Just a suggestion: move such threads. The "science" in this thread, for example, has been thoroughly debunked, therefore this is not science. If it ever was it sure as hell isn't now.

Agreed. I occasionally, for my sins, visit Graham Hancock's forum! They have a science thread. In it, a certain poster on here was spamming his 'stellar metamorphosis' woo. It still remains on our main page. At GH they kicked it into the 'Paranormal' thread! Quite why these people are given free reign to spam their unscientific gibberish on here is beyond me.

 

[Reality Check]

...Stick to Earth orbiting Saturn, or whatever idiocy you believe in.

This reference may be obscure for lurkers.
Sol88's demented Thunderbolts cult has obviously insane dogma about comets and the Sun as exposed in this thread and the rest of the universe as exposed in another thread. But the abysmal stupidity does not stop there! One bit of insanity from the cult prophet David Talbott

Originally inspired by Velikovsky, Talbott envisioned a congregation of planets physically close to the Earth in ancient times in which "the five planets Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars and the Earth orbited the Sun as a single linear unit, which rotated about a point close to Saturn, before its break-up at the end of the Golden Age".[16] He claims that the violent evolution of this "Polar Configuration" provoked the myth-making epoch of human history.[17]
...
The Saturn Myth: A reinterpretation of rites and symbols illuminating some of the dark corners of primordial society (1980) Doubleday & Co., ISBN 978-0-385-11376-2.
...
"Past History of the Planets: The Polar Configuration," Chronology and Catastrophism Review (2008), Society for Interdisciplinary Studies.

Maybe also in the other holy books of the cult (Thunderbolts of the Gods, The Electric Universe).
Talbott may have persisted with his delusions about myths forming the Solar System regardless of the laws of physics for at least 28 years. Even after writing 2 books with the supposed physicist Thornhill!

Saturn Theory

The Saturn Theory (also: Saturn Model, Saturn Myth, Saturn Configuration) is the idea based on comparative mythology, that the Earth was once in closer proximity, or even a satellite of the planet Saturn, which appeared like a sun. It has received criticisms on both mythological and physical grounds.

 

[jonesdave116]

Talbott may have persisted with his delusions about myths forming the Solar System regardless of the laws of physics for at least 28 years. Even after writing 2 books with the supposed physicist Thornhill!

'Supposed' being the operative word! Thornhill is as much a mythologist as Talbott. They tend to play it down on Thunderdolts, and in their youtube woo, but that is where they are all coming from. Here is Thornhill from 1998 on a now defunct site;

https://web.archive.org/web/19980615054946/http://www.marmsweb.com/euniverse.html

For the sake of posterity (or hilarity!);

Heraclitus, 2,500 years ago, was closer to the truth than modern astronomers. In years to come, people will look back on the present era with incredulity. How could we have been so blind? Why did we regard the universe as electrically sterile, when the evidence that it is not was staring us in the face? In answering these questions I will show how badly science suffers from paradigm paralysis. Breaking free from old paradigms allows amazing connections to be forged between disciplines presently thought to have nothing in common. Who would have thought that mythology could illuminate plasma physics and celestial dynamics and vice-versa? And this must be the hallmark of correct paradigms - no data can be ignored or discarded when searching for the truth. Every piece must fit the puzzle.

Some of the results are astounding on first meeting - for example that our Sun and all stars are giant balls of lightning - but so obvious and simple when the evidence is presented. That evidence comes from the totality of human experience of phenomena in the skies, spanning prehistoric cave paintings to modern space probes. This is as it must be.

According to David Talbott's meticulous research spanning 25 years, the "Saturnian Configuration" was a spectacular arrangement of looming planets in Earth's prehistoric sky, universally remembered and depicted by the ancients. The appearance of that sky beggars even the modern imagination which has been conditioned to the wierdness of phenomena seen in deep space.

Since shortly after their assumed creation 4 or 5 billion years ago, the planets are believed to have moved like clockwork along their separate orbits. Yet, it is well known among astronomers that Newton1s law of gravity when applied to more than 2 orbiting bodies, leads in a relatively short time to chaotic motion. How can the solar system have remained in its apparently stable configuration for the 5 aeons required by current theories of solar system evolution? And why, if the planets and moons were formed from the same primordial cloud of gas and dust, are they such a fruit salad of physical characteristics, axial tilts, rotation rates and orbits? Why do many of the moons show sharp hemispherical differences?

What really caused the strange pristine scars seen on the inner planets and moons? How is it that many of these scars are of such colossal size? In several cases we see, smaller moons, craters so large that the moons should have been pulverized by the impact, if indeed the craters were formed by impacting bodies.

The ad-hoc nature of most expert answers to these questions prompts skepticism of the current paradigm. It seems much too easy to dismiss the Saturnian Configuration of planets as science fiction. Astronomers may reassure themselves and us that such an arrangement of planets is impossible, but in doing so there is no acknowledgement of the alien sky, depicted with remarkable specificity and consistency by ancient peoples around the world. Consequently, many loose ends in other disciplines are left dangling. This is characteristic of modern scientific knowledge.

It has been left to to a few qualified people with more imagination to show that there is a stable dynamical system of planets conforming to the Saturnian Configuration. But it raises the additional question: if the solar system has been so drastically reordered since prehistoric times, how is it that it shows no sign of it now?

I will show that by scaling up electrical effects seen on Earth and in the laboratory, I can provide stunning support for the ancient imagery of a different sky and hence the likelihood that planets and moons did move in close proximity in the recent past, as proposed by David Talbott's model. An electric universe model provides a simple mechanism for re-ordering a chaotic planetary system in a very short time and maintaining that stability. It has other startling consequences which confirm that science fiction writers are the best predictors of the future.

My approach to the problem has been like Talbott's, using pattern matching, but converging from the physical sciences rather than the humanities. It is a lesson we both learned early from Immanuel Velikovsky. It has given amazing results for the synthesis of a new cosmology and history of the human race. It provides the first glimpse of the interdisciplinary knowledge of the third millenium.

So, what do I mean by an electric Universe? Astronomical theory presents gravity and magnetism as the only forces participating in the mechanism of the Universe. This may seem a very strange attitude when it is known that magnetism requires electrical currents to flow, but I think it highlights our mistaken models of the material world and our failure to discern the interactions of seemingly separate parts.

I will show that a re-examination of basic physics points to an intimate connection between the electrical force and magnetism and gravity. The result is a more holistic, interconnected view of the universe and its interactions, from the subatomic level on up through living beings to the planets, stars, and great streaming galaxies.

Physicist my arse!

 

[Sol88]

Not only are you not good at maths, you do not understand Jack about any of the relevant science. Hence why nobody takes you seriously. Stick to Earth orbiting Saturn, or whatever idiocy you believe in. Leave science to those that understand it. That does not include anybody in your cult.

I never said where comets come from.

This is what I’ve said all along.
Comets are rocks on eccentric orbits seeking charge equilibrium with the surrounding plasma.

This has been shown to be more correct than the Dirtysnowball/Icy dirtball


This is science.

We have strong ambipolar electric field doing work.... love it.

 

[tusenfem]

Well you did publish this statement

Also from tusenfem

I’m not good at the math but there must be massive electric currents threading the solar system. Do they radiate in the radio spectrum?

Why "massive electric currents"?
Then again the actually important thing is current density (which I have explained to you before) wihch tens of nano-Ampères per square meter (as from my paper that you quoted). This means that through the surface of a football field a total of 0.1 milli-Ampères are flowing.

Then you are mixing up field aligned currents (possibly along the tail of a comet) and cross field currents (as in current sheets between oppositely directed magnetic fields).

And then in my tail paper I actually say that the helical wave that Rosetta observed cannot be generated by a current.

And no, they do not radiate in the radio spectrum.

And then again we have to see here how you just grab little pieces from various papers and try to make a statement, which, when looked at more closely, have head nor tail. Would it not be time for your EC friends to actually come up with something more qualitatively, or even better quantitatively?

 

[jonesdave116]

I never said where comets come from.

This is what I’ve said all along.
Comets are rocks on eccentric orbits seeking charge equilibrium with the surrounding plasma.

This has been shown to be more correct than the Dirtysnowball/Icy dirtball


This is science.

We have strong ambipolar electric field doing work.... love it.

And that would be why you cannot explain what difference an eccentric orbit makes, and ran away every time Indagator brought it up. And you are still running away. You have no science,. That is your problem. You are trying to debate science, with scientifically literate people, armed only with faith. No science, no mechanisms, no maths, no evidence. Might as well debate a creationist.

 

[Sol88]

And that would be why you cannot explain what difference an eccentric orbit makes, and ran away every time Indagator brought it up. And you are still running away. You have no science,. That is your problem. You are trying to debate science, with scientifically literate people, armed only with faith. No science, no mechanisms, no maths, no evidence. Might as well debate a creationist.

Like your style jonesdave116, dummy spitting hissy fists.


But people have already done that.

A criterion to classify asteroids and comets based on the orbital parameters

 

[Belz...]

Still waiting for your answer to my question, Sol:

I'm asking you in what way does this water generation prove your general theory. And while you're at it, why and how does it make the "mostly icy comet" theory incorrect?

Still waiting for your answer, Sol.

 

[jonesdave116]

Like your style jonesdave116, dummy spitting hissy fists.


But people have already done that.

A criterion to classify asteroids and comets based on the orbital parameters

Show me where they say that eccentricity causes outgassing. Otherwise, you are lying. Again. You ran away, and you are still running away.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual lies about posts.

Not only are you not good at maths, you do not understand Jack about any of the relevant science. Hence why nobody takes you seriously. Stick to Earth orbiting Saturn, or whatever idiocy you believe in. Leave science to those that understand it. That does not include anybody in your cult.

Sol88's demented cult's origin of comets is not in that post.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual lies about posts.

And that would be why you cannot explain what difference an eccentric orbit makes, and ran away every time Indagator brought it up. And you are still running away. You have no science,. That is your problem. You are trying to debate science, with scientifically literate people, armed only with faith. No science, no mechanisms, no maths, no evidence. Might as well debate a creationist.

This is a post about Sol88's demented cult and Sol88 replies with irrelevant mainstream science !

For others:
Say we detect a what could be an asteroid or comet far from the Sun in a orbit that may confirm it as a comet by it becoming active. But that will happen in 10,000 years! The question is do we have to wait for 10,000 years? An answer is that we can make a good estimate now by looking it orbital elements as in A criterion to classify asteroids and comets based on the orbital parameters.

 

[Sol88]

Meanwhile back to double layers at 67P

Based on these results, we suggest that the accelerated ions have been accelerated by the tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet. They have been accelerated for 400–800 km in the electric field of 0.1 mV m−1.

The cause of the anti-cometward aberration in the XY plane of the CSE frame is still unknown, but this may indicate that the tailward-flowing cometary ions are deflected across the upstream boundaries or by an outward-pointing ambipolar electric field.

Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


So....

In the regions where the electron pressure gradient dominates a strong ambipolar electric field is present, e.g., near the outgassing cometary nucleus [43,44,49]. Here the electric field can dowork andaccelerate electrons parallel to the magnetic field towards the comet [Figs. 2(i) and 2(j)]. Hence, providing further evidence that the ambipolar electric field generates the suprathermal electron population close to the comet

Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law


tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet?? How does outgassing achieve a role in any of that. Mainstreams solar radiation pressure blows it all tailward, the “Outgassing” products that is.

Pure electric comet.

 

[JeanTate]

Meanwhile back to double layers at 67P





Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


So.... Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law


tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet?? How does outgassing achieve a role in any of that. Mainstreams solar radiation pressure blows it all tailward, the “Outgassing” products that is.

So?

Pure electric comet.

Nah. The electric comet is pure Velikovsky, giant thunderbolts ripping giga-tonnes of solid rock from the Earth's crust while at the same time halting, reversing, then reversing again the Earth's rotation. All within the last few thousand years. More in common with Bigfoot than even Tesla. In his native Swedish, I'm pretty sure Alfvén would have ripped relating this last sentence to the rest to tiny shreds.

Or, if you can't do anything quantitative, you sure ain't doing science.

 

[JeanTate]

Still waiting for your answer, Sol.

Going by past form, you'll be waiting a long time.

But it's nothing personal. Look at how many other questions Sol88 has been asked, by others, questions he has not yet answered. Despite those questions going back years in some cases.

FWIW, for quite some time, I think Sol88's posting style closely resembles that of a spammer.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's persists in his insane lie that double layers have been detected at any comet when a plasma physicist researching comets has told him that is impossible and nothing Sol88 has ever cited states that !

Sol88's usual insane lies about mainstream ices and dust comet papers.
"Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko" is not about double layers.
"Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law" is not about double layers.

Sol88's usual insane lies about Sol88's insane religious electric comet dogma.
Those papers do not support Sol88's insane religious dogma above.
There are no double layers in Sol88's insane religious dogma above.

Sol88's usual insanity about textbook physics and comets.
The physical fact that ices must sublimate in the conditions of comets and so comet outgas supplies neutral gas to the coma and tail. No outgassing = no coma or tail and no "tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet" !

A "Mainstreams solar radiation pressure blows it all tailward" delusion from Sol88. Comet coma exist :!

Sol88's usual insanity about the real world.
Gas being left behind as the comet moves and gas being driven by the solar wind are not electric fields ! Anyone with 2 brain cells knows this.

 

[Sol88]

So?


Nah. The electric comet is pure Velikovsky, giant thunderbolts ripping giga-tonnes of solid rock from the Earth's crust while at the same time halting, reversing, then reversing again the Earth's rotation. All within the last few thousand years. More in common with Bigfoot than even Tesla. In his native Swedish, I'm pretty sure Alfvén would have ripped relating this last sentence to the rest to tiny shreds.

Or, if you can't do anything quantitative, you sure ain't doing science.

What a tripper, ay.


Focus jean tate, focus. Your fairytale story is actually less plausible.

Would like my first peer reviewed paper that confirms the electric comet model? The same as SAFIRE confirmed the electric sun?



I have more than enough patience.

Question, just to show how ignorant you are, how long are the force free electric currents (Birkeland currents) that flow up and down a comets tail?

All mainstream stuff believe it or not.

Do you deny these are at play at comets? Do you even know what I’m talking about?

There are no electric currents with YOUR MAINSTREAM model of melting snowyicemuddballs.

Grow up. Velikovsky may be right maybe wrong but 100% better than the Big Bang fantasy.

For instance, the Big Bang, “In the beginning something created the heaven and the earth” from nothing...

The Electric Universe is infinite in size, in a Big Bang you need an infinitely dense point...

We could move on to multiverses, string theory....nice model, grand tack model.... which farietail do you believe jean tate?

So focus, not on the origins of comets but what a comet is. A Dirtysnowball, icymuddball, puffydustball or mostly rock/dirt/stone/refractory.

 

[jonesdave116]

Do you deny these are at play at comets? Do you even know what I’m talking a

bout?

You sure as hell don't know what you're talking about. Still no model. Still no science. Still no mechanisms. Still no evidence. 'Twas ever thus. Word salad, lies and gibberish is all you have.

 

[Sol88]

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's persists in his insane lie that double layers have been detected at any comet when a plasma physicist researching comets has told him that is impossible and nothing Sol88 has ever cited states that !

Sol88's usual insane lies about mainstream ices and dust comet papers.
"Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko" is not about double layers.
"Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law" is not about double layers.

Sol88's usual insane lies about Sol88's insane religious electric comet dogma.
Those papers do not support Sol88's insane religious dogma above.
There are no double layers in Sol88's insane religious dogma above.

Sol88's usual insanity about textbook physics and comets.
The physical fact that ices must sublimate in the conditions of comets and so comet outgas supplies neutral gas to the coma and tail. No outgassing = no coma or tail and no "tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet" !

A "Mainstreams solar radiation pressure blows it all tailward" delusion from Sol88. Comet coma exist :!

Sol88's usual insanity about the real world.
Gas being left behind as the comet moves and gas being driven by the solar wind are not electric fields ! Anyone with 2 brain cells knows this.

Yup, a complete numpty.


Icy mudballs blowing in the wind,

Should I dumb it down anymore so you can comprehend RC?

the solar wind are not electric fields, Anyone with 2 brain cells knows this.

You don’t even know what a plasma double layer is champ, therefore you much safer to stick with your icy mudball.

 

[Sol88]

bout?

You sure as hell don't know what you're talking about. Still no model. Still no science. Still no mechanisms. Still no evidence. 'Twas ever thus. Word salad, lies and gibberish is all you have.

Give it a crack champ!

You been presented a mechanism.

 

[jonesdave116]

Meanwhile back to double layers at 67P





Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


So.... Building a Weakly Outgassing Comet from a Generalized Ohm’s Law


tailward-polarization electric field upstream the comet?? How does outgassing achieve a role in any of that. Mainstreams solar radiation pressure blows it all tailward, the “Outgassing” products that is.

Pure electric comet.

Pure ignorance. There wouldn't be a frigging polarisation/ ambipolar field if it wasn't for the outgassing! Remember Deca's four fluid model? Where are two of those 'fluids' coming from? Duh! Why is this not seen at asteroids? Show us some science, instead of word salad and your usual inability to understand scientific papers.