Cleon was the one who first used the "incredibly creepy" comment, I was merely parrotting his wording for effect. I think he should be the one to explain his incredibly creepy comment.
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The Death Penalty: Chinese style.
- Thread starter DOC
- Start date
Cleon was the one who first used the "incredibly creepy" comment, I was merely parrotting his wording for effect. I think he should be the one to explain his incredibly creepy comment.
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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One of the problems I have with the Chinese mentality is that life seems much cheaper over there. Over there it seems the state is god and the individual human is easly expendible. I've read Christianity is growing over there so who knows things could change.
I never really understood why Communism and atheism has been so intertwined. The principles of Communism have a lot of Christian principles in them so why all the atheistic philosophy.
I never really understood why Communism and atheism has been so intertwined. The principles of Communism have a lot of Christian principles in them so why all the atheistic philosophy.
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Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Cleon
King of the Pod People
I didn't think it was a particularly controversial thing to say. Yes, I find the publicity photos of people smiling before their execution is *********** creepy. Is there something wrong with finding it creepy?Cleon
King of the Pod People
Wolfman
Chief Solipsistic, Autosycophant
This goes way, waaaay beyond Communism. It is a fundamental cultural perspective that dates back thousands of years. China is a collectivist culture, which means essentially that the needs of society supersede those of the individual. Thus, for example, from the Chinese cultural perspective, it is better to execute a few innocent people, if it also means that more guilty people will be executed...because that results in a better net benefit to society, despite the fact some individuals suffer (as opposed to having more guilty people go free because the standard for burden of proof is too high, in order to protect individuals from being unjustly sentenced). Although the Communist gov't capitalizes on this, it is a perspective that has persisted throughout the vast majority of China's lengthy history.
Well, that's true...as far as it goes. It would be more accurate to say that religion is growing over here. Buddhism is growing the fastest, Islam is doing fairly well, Christianity is making inroads, etc.
Cults (in this case, I mean splinter religions that are brand new and develop their own independent theology which is generally a mixture of other religions) are probably the fastest growing religious sector. China has the largest UFO cults in the world. Christian cults are likewise growing like wildfire, the result of misguided "Christian missionary" efforts that focused on converting people to Christianity, but failed entirely to provide any actual education or training about their religion, resulting in all sorts of divergent beliefs (mixing Christianity with Buddhism and/or martial arts are the most common forms).
Or one could look at it the other way...I don't really understand why so many principles have been so intertwined with Christianity. There is no Christian moral/ethical principle that requires belief in a God (well, perhaps excepting the "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength" thing); yet Christians describe them as "Christian principles", as if they are something that arise from Christianity. Not true. They are principles that Christians hold; but there's no need to be a Christian to believe or practice them.
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SpuriusMaximus
Penultimate Amazing
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More importantly, most of those principles existed LONG before Christianity or even the Abrahamic God.
The Alleged Historical Buddha told people to be nice to each other, hundreds of years before there was a Christ. Even in the middle east, Zoroastrianism had an emphasis on truth, justice, etc, and actually managed to forbid slavery long before Paul's churches were... erm... lying their ass off for Jesus and condoning slavery. The Egyptians had the wider and arguably better concept of Ma'at (justice, righteousmness, proper conduct, order, etc) some three flippin' thousands of years before Jesus, and two thousand before Judaism. Not to mention all those codes of laws (Hammurabi, etc) that show that people were not ok with murder, theft, etc, long before Jesus told anyone not to, and for that matter long before Moses too.
So, yeah, it seem to me too quite presumptuous to hijack those as specifically Christian values.
Heck, even some modern day Christians STILL aren't anywhere near the principles of Ma'at, and probably would scream "communism!!!" if you even brought those up. Specifically the protection of the poor and the idea that no, it's not ok, to let those starve under a bridge, were right there millennia before Jesus, and yet the Christians still aren't there.
Plus, on the flip side of the coin, even Christians actually didn't show most of those values until very recently. Roll time back some 500 years, and you'd find Christians _not_ valuing human life at all. You'd find ideas like that it's perfectly chivalrous to slaughter captured soldiers who aren't nobles, or even to actively cut down one's own mercenaries like the French did at Crecy. Or to massacre the defenders and even population of a city who didn't surrender when offered a chance to. Yeah, the massacre of Jerusalem by the crusaders wasn't a one-off excess, it was the proper conduct idea of those knights who fancied themselves as "miles Christi", i.e., "soldiers of Christ." You'd also find the Christians not being concerned at all with judicial burden of proof, and finding it totally ok to torture someone you don't like to make them confess heresy or witchcraft and have them burned at the stake. Even faithful soldiers of Christ like the Templars were brutally tortured by the Inquisition and burned just because a Christian king wanted their wealth. Etc.
So exactly where were those Christian principles? Those Christians sure didn't seem to have been told about that, did they?
The Alleged Historical Buddha told people to be nice to each other, hundreds of years before there was a Christ. Even in the middle east, Zoroastrianism had an emphasis on truth, justice, etc, and actually managed to forbid slavery long before Paul's churches were... erm... lying their ass off for Jesus and condoning slavery. The Egyptians had the wider and arguably better concept of Ma'at (justice, righteousmness, proper conduct, order, etc) some three flippin' thousands of years before Jesus, and two thousand before Judaism. Not to mention all those codes of laws (Hammurabi, etc) that show that people were not ok with murder, theft, etc, long before Jesus told anyone not to, and for that matter long before Moses too.
So, yeah, it seem to me too quite presumptuous to hijack those as specifically Christian values.
Heck, even some modern day Christians STILL aren't anywhere near the principles of Ma'at, and probably would scream "communism!!!" if you even brought those up. Specifically the protection of the poor and the idea that no, it's not ok, to let those starve under a bridge, were right there millennia before Jesus, and yet the Christians still aren't there.
Plus, on the flip side of the coin, even Christians actually didn't show most of those values until very recently. Roll time back some 500 years, and you'd find Christians _not_ valuing human life at all. You'd find ideas like that it's perfectly chivalrous to slaughter captured soldiers who aren't nobles, or even to actively cut down one's own mercenaries like the French did at Crecy. Or to massacre the defenders and even population of a city who didn't surrender when offered a chance to. Yeah, the massacre of Jerusalem by the crusaders wasn't a one-off excess, it was the proper conduct idea of those knights who fancied themselves as "miles Christi", i.e., "soldiers of Christ." You'd also find the Christians not being concerned at all with judicial burden of proof, and finding it totally ok to torture someone you don't like to make them confess heresy or witchcraft and have them burned at the stake. Even faithful soldiers of Christ like the Templars were brutally tortured by the Inquisition and burned just because a Christian king wanted their wealth. Etc.
So exactly where were those Christian principles? Those Christians sure didn't seem to have been told about that, did they?
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sarge
Penultimate Amazing
All religions are cults. Christianity and Heavens Gate differ in that in UFO cults, it is considerably more likely that the deity actually exists than it is in "God" cults.
I don't find it at all strange (or particularly troubling) that the Chinese modify the wacktard beliefs they adopt from the west.
MRC_Hans
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Currently, the Chinese are hell-bent on copying anything from the west.
- Brandname goods
- Car designs
- They have Mc Donalds, KFCs Pizza Huts, Starbucks all over the place (even though the traditional Chinese cuisine is vastly better)
- Street lines (even though they have obviously no ***** idea what all those white lines mean)
- Dress codes
- Building styles
- etc.
So of course, some of them are keen on trying out Christianity.
- It will pass.
Hans
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
About as creepy from my P.O.V. as the US allowing people including family victim to watch the execution.
If the above is true, it would be an example of the death penalty, Chinese style:
Here is more info about this issue:
http://investigating.wordpress.com/...ese-regimes-death-row-explanation-chapter-xi/
And here's an example of the death penalty USA style
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/07/justice/texas-arson-documentary/index.html
What's your point?
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/07/justice/texas-arson-documentary/index.html
What's your point?
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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That is creepy too, but there is a tradition for letting people watch executions. Taking pictures and making them public is a step further, IMHO.
Hans
MRC_Hans
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That is a movie. But ... what's YOUR point? The death penalty is inhumane and unacceptable, no matter where.
Hans
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
You're determined to spread this crap about Falun Gong organ harvesting, I guess. Go ahead. Get it out of your system.
But you should know that those of us who follow China a little closer than you and Teh Donald realize that perhaps the only organization less trustworthy than the Chinese Government is probably Falun Gong. You've got two groups of pathological liars going at it.
The evidence provided in Deadly Harvest (aka The Kilgour-Matas Report) was mostly fabricated by devotees of charismatic cult leader Li Hongzhi. When I see them in the mornings, here, if they say it's sunny, I open my umbrella. (I assume you realize that Falung Gong is a Qigong cult, right? They're not some oppressed Christian splinter group, as the FG picketers in a couple of places have tried to imply. They're a heathen cult, by golly!)
So what is it you're on about, DOC? You have trouble with photos taken before an execution? Because it's an atheistic country? What about the pictures of Saddam being hung. That's not an atheistic country is it? How about the American practice of opening executions to journalists and family members? Is that okay merely because Amurrica is Christian, or is that something you generally support as good clean wholesome family fun?
In short, as others have asked.... just what is your point? My suspicion is that this is just another excuse for China bashing and that you have no other purpose.
Not just your suspicion. That or trolling, in my opinion.