The Coyotes of Ramapo

[kookbreaker]

Well, suburban life is clashing with feral wildlife as two Coyote attacks happened at a park in Ramapo, NJ, one of a woman, one on a dog. The park was cleared, closed, and police are patrolling the park.

I've seen some speculate that these may not be pure Coyotes but are ones interbred with Wolves, Wild Dogs, etc, which allegedly can be more aggressive.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Rabies rabies
It's a possibility
Coyotes half crazy
Always a concern to me
It won't be a pleasant visit
To the doctor's office you need it
But you'll be safe in a couple days
Rabies prophylaxis is for you.

 

[Myriad]

The coyotes here in southeastern Massachusetts have significantly increased in size in the last couple generations. I've been within ten feet of them on a couple of occasions, not in full daylight but in dusk with good visibility, so I've gotten pretty good looks at them. So has my wife and several neighbors, and they've all seen the same change.

Interbreeding is certainly a possibility. There haven't been any attacks around here yet, though.

 

[Brainster]

That particular park is pretty big and wild; I used to dirt bike there as a teen. That said, I never saw a coyote there. I see them quite commonly where I live now; all you have to do is go out around 1:00 in the morning.

 

[Mike!]

My understanding is, they aren't all that dangerous until the ACME catalog and credit card arrives.

 

[William Parcher]

Interbreeding is certainly a possibility.

They could only be interbreeding with dogs. There are no wild wolves in Massachusetts or New Jersey.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Is it pronounced coy-oat or coy-o-tee over there?

 

[William Parcher]

Is it pronounced coy-oat or coy-o-tee over there?

Either pronunciation is acceptable, but one may be locally more common.

 

[Trebuchet]

I'm from Montana. Ky-Ote. Oh, and that large cat is a Mountain Lion.

 

[rockysmith76]

Well, suburban life is clashing with feral wildlife as two Coyote attacks happened at a park in Ramapo, NJ, one of a woman, one on a dog. The park was cleared, closed, and police are patrolling the park.

I've seen some speculate that these may not be pure Coyotes but are ones interbred with Wolves, Wild Dogs, etc, which allegedly can be more aggressive.

not necessarily, we have coy wolves locally also (they are a thing), seem less afraid of humans, not necessarily more aggressive.

 

[rockysmith76]

The coyotes here in southeastern Massachusetts have significantly increased in size in the last couple generations. I've been within ten feet of them on a couple of occasions, not in full daylight but in dusk with good visibility, so I've gotten pretty good looks at them. So has my wife and several neighbors, and they've all seen the same change.

Interbreeding is certainly a possibility. There haven't been any attacks around here yet, though.

same area, the ones with a shorter and bushier tail, and bigger neck/head are the hybridized ones.

 

[rockysmith76]

They could only be interbreeding with dogs. There are no wild wolves in Massachusetts or New Jersey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wolf

timber wolves no, red wolves yes, slow being phased out by you guessed it,, interbreeding. Wiki says SE US, they have a wider range, like several other animals, notably black bears. Some argue Cougars as well.

 

[Brainster]

Is it pronounced coy-oat or coy-o-tee over there?

The Phoenix hockey team pronounces it Coy-o-tee. I've often wondered if it isn't the somewhat surname of Don Quixote (generally pronounced Key-o-tee) that has led to the confusion.

 

[William Parcher]

timber wolves no, red wolves yes,

There are no wild red wolves in Massachusetts or New Jersey.

 

[Elagabalus]

Aruba, Jamaica, oh I want to take you to
Bermuda, Bahama, come on pretty mama
Key Largo, Montego, baby why don't we go

That's how they always roll, the coyotes of Ramapo

 

[rockysmith76]

There are no wild red wolves in Massachusetts or New Jersey.

Based on what? Hiking there often, you would be wrong. The hybrids at least are increasingly numerous and it's not domestic dog doing it, if at all its a minority of the mix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

 

[theprestige]

Based on what? Hiking there often, you would be wrong. The hybrids at least are increasingly numerous and it's not domestic dog doing it, if at all its a minority of the mix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

Domestic dogs can't hang.

"You can't get with her, dude. She'll eat you for lunch. She runs with the wolves."

 

[ahhell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wolf

timber wolves no, red wolves yes, slow being phased out by you guessed it,, interbreeding. Wiki says SE US, they have a wider range, like several other animals, notably black bears. Some argue Cougars as well.

What is the current range of red wolves? Seems like its limited to about 200 individuals, mostly in captivity. Seems unlikely that there is significant hybridization between coyotes and wolves of any kind in NJ. Grey wolves might even be more likely than red wolves.

Edit, the wiki you linked to indicates Eastern coyotes appear to be mostly hybrids of eastern wolves and coyotes with some minor dog admixture and that eastern wolves and red wolves are probably hybrids of wolves and coyotes to begin with. This is debated due to to some issues with the sample genomes used.

Mildly amusing regardless on account that red wolves may just be a hybrid between coyotes and wolves in the first place.

Aside from that, is there any evidence other than anecdote that the local coyotes are bigger lately? Also, two attacks, is not much of a trend.

Edit to add, are they really different species? Seems like dogs, wolves, and coyotes can all interbreed to produce fertile young. Seems more accurate to describe them all as subspecies.

 

[rockysmith76]

What is the current range of red wolves? Seems like its limited to about 200 individuals, mostly in captivity. Seems unlikely that there is significant hybridization between coyotes and wolves of any kind in NJ. Grey wolves might even be more likely than red wolves.

Edit, the wiki you linked to indicates Eastern coyotes appear to be mostly hybrids of eastern wolves and coyotes with some minor dog admixture and that eastern wolves and red wolves are probably hybrids of wolves and coyotes to begin with. This is debated due to to some issues with the sample genomes used.

Mildly amusing regardless on account that red wolves may just be a hybrid between coyotes and wolves in the first place.

Aside from that, is there any evidence other than anecdote that the local coyotes are bigger lately? Also, two attacks, is not much of a trend.

Edit to add, are they really different species? Seems like dogs, wolves, and coyotes can all interbreed to produce fertile young. Seems more accurate to describe them all as subspecies.

sorta the point, they are sorta thought to be a hybridization as well, so it's not so cut and dry, the lines between the species have pretty blended that coyote-red wolf-coywolf and coydog are very blurry. The major take away is the eastern coyotes are basically genetic sluts and they are/have hybridized into a slightly different animal.

I've seen them up close and they are slightly bigger/different looking than a run of the mill coyote. To just declare there are none here, is very black and white and wrong. The whole thing is genetically blurry at this point.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coydog

 

[casebro]

And the First Immigrants had dogs when the Europeans got here. Plenty of time for interbreeding.