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The case against Dr. Paul

BTW here's my current ignore list. I hope this server doesn't have a set limit... :)

Corsair 115
D'rok
David Wong
dudalb
Elizabeth I
Foolmewunz
gambling_cruiser
marksman
Suddenly
Tokorona
WildCat

-Dave

Ladies and gentlemen, I am honored to be in your company.

And what you have failed to grasp is that by artificially pricing gold at $40,000/oz all you've done is create a new fiat currency.

Please elaborate.

OOOHH, Wildcat, you seem to have been removed from the "ignore" list. Can you stand the excitement? (Don't let it go to your head.)
 
Please elaborate.
Because the market price of gold is ~$980/oz. Pegging the dollar to gold isn't going to change that, it will only reduce the amount of dollar notes in circulation.

If the US gov't mandates that gold is worth $40,000/oz the rest of the world is unlikely to go along with the delusion, and currency markets will simply devalue the dollar to match the market price of gold.

Or you back each dollar note with a cent or two of gold, and simply create a new fiat currency backed partially with gold.
 
Because the market price of gold is ~$980/oz. Pegging the dollar to gold isn't going to change that, it will only reduce the amount of dollar notes in circulation.

If the US gov't mandates that gold is worth $40,000/oz the rest of the world is unlikely to go along with the delusion, and currency markets will simply devalue the dollar to match the market price of gold.

Or you back each dollar note with a cent or two of gold, and simply create a new fiat currency backed partially with gold.

I see. But you're still not getting it. The current dollars won't ever be tied to gold, because the dollar value of gold would be on the order of $40K, if you take how much gold the USA supposedly has and spread that over the amount of dollars put into circulation..

As far as a gold backed currency, we're speaking of "New Dollars", not existing dollars. The current dollars will devalue to nothing. "New Dollars" are whatever currency rises to replace it. Perhaps it is backed by gold, but the USA might not have any gold left.

-Dave
 
Oh dear! Once again, dash and OneShotKill are 00% wrong. George HW Bush actually called Reagan's economics "voodoo economics" in a 1980 debate. Bush later realized he was wrong and adopted much the same policies in his Presidency (except that tax thing ;)).

Not that being 100% wrong has stopped you guys from spouting off nonsense before.

YOu all are really stupid. I never made a claim to be wrong. I just stated to Dash that i knew he was referring to Regan when he said VooDoo. Again wildcat you are a moron!!!!

Thank you for telling me my non existent claims are wrong. Next time i dont make a claim i will be sure to correct it!
 
Voodoo economics

Actually I just like the term, "Voodoo economics". I vaguely remember it from Reagan's time. It does sound like something Bush Sr. said, now that Wildcat mentions it.

How I'm using it is up to me though. I like the ring to it. As I stated, I use it to refer to Keynesian economics.

Once again wildcat zeroes right on the one bit of irrelevancy he can find and misses the big picture.

"Hah! You didn't spell "ZZZ" right! Therefore your whole point is invalid!"

I think Wildcat mght be paid by the federal government to deliberately spread misinformation and confusion. It's hard to believe people behave like that naturally.

-Dave
PS Every time I get sucked into these little back and forths I regret it...Sigh...There's just no teaching some people. On the lighter side, silver is closing in on $20.

Good article below:

"US Dollar Plunges! Inflation Surges! Crunch Time for the Money Supply Pumpers!"

After reading thousands of financial books over the years, I can say that I have found no one who summarizes the inherent danger of credit expansion — which is now the full-time job of central banks and governments in the West — better than the late, great student of Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises:

"Sooner or later, credit expansion, through the creation of additional fiduciary, must come to a standstill. Even if the banks wanted to, they could not carry on this policy indefinitely, not even if they were being forced to do so by the strongest pressure from outside. The continuing increase in the quantity of fiduciary media leads to continual price increases.

"Inflation can continue only so long as the opinion persists that it will stop in the foreseeable future. However, once the conviction gains a foothold that the inflation will not come to a halt, then a panic breaks out. In evaluating money and commodities, the public takes anticipated price increases into account in advance.

"As a consequence, prices race erratically upward out of all bounds. People turn away from using money which is comprised by the increase in fiduciary media. They 'flee' to foreign money, metal bars, 'real values,' barter. In short, the currency breaks down."

I think this past week gave us a real taste of exactly what von Mises refers to in the end of the above passage.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3873.html
 
All fiat currencies in history have always ended thus. With a panic attempt to get rid of them in exchange for things of real value, before they truly become worthless.

Yep, every one of them, except the ones witch haven't ended or which have ended for some other reason. Tautologies are fun aren't they?
 
On the lighter side, silver is closing in on $20.

Silver is currently at $20.01, rose 1.01% on the internation market. Up, up and away!

http://www.kitco.com/market/

Now for those following this, bear in mind this is a volatile market. When things spike upwards this fast, there can be a correction. It might drop back down a dollar or two. This is a long term bullish market in silver (meaning it will be steadily rising for the forseeable future). Along the way it will have ups and downs. If we have a correction, the scoffers on this forum will probably point to it and say I'm full of crap. I just want to beat them to the punch. Short term silver is volatile. Long term it's going up and up. Safest strategy is to buy physical silver and just keep it as long as you can.

This particular "up" is just amazing though, I haven't seen this since I started buying silver in October 2007. So I'm a little concerned it will settle back down a bit before continuing on up.

On the other hand, we could be seeing the "short squeeze" we've all been hoping for. This is where the people that sell silver short (they "borrow" silver and sell it on the open market, hoping silver drops in price later so they can buy back in and cover their short, and make money on the difference). Short sellers suffer when the price of silver goes up. What can happen is the short sellers panic, and start buying silver (at a loss) to cover their shorts -- this takes silver out of circulation and causes prices to rise. Which then can make more short sellers panic and buy silver to cover their shorts.

Ted Butler has been predicting this for a long time. Silver just needs to go up enough, then it could pop right out of control into the stratosphere.

-Dave
 
Silver is currently at $20.01, rose 1.01% on the internation market. Up, up and away!

Hooray! The end is nigh!

Are you confident enough yet to settle on the time frame for your 2 year prediction? Let me jog your memory:

moi said:
So let's refine your claim then. I see three possibilities given your statements so far:

1. You purchased silver in November 2007 for $14. According to your prediction, it should reach $28 by November 2009.
2. Your prediction is that the current price will double in 2 years. Which means that in March 2010, the price will be approx $38-$40.
3. Your are predicting that the November 2007 price will double 2 years from now - i.e., $28 in March 2010.

Obviously, option 3 gives you the most wiggle room, but nonetheless, it would be helpful if you clarified your claim.

If you end up being correct, and we are both still hanging around here, I will tip my hat to you. Still, it will not be very compelling evidence that your doomsday scenario is accurate. For that claim to be convincing, you will have to make a firm prediction on one of your scarier indicators.
 
Anyone who publishes their ignore list is a childish attention whoring ass clown. Make your case with legitimate arguments or STFU, dash.

Yeah, you're right. BTW you just made my ignore list. "STFU". Such language...

Silver @ $20.39, up 2.93%.

-Dave
 
Who be moron, child? Bush Sr. used the term to refer to Reaganomics. Don't you understand that? You and the smartest poster on the forums are totally clueless when it comes to easily google-able facts.

Reagan never used the term. Understand???? George HW Bush used it to describe Reagan's variation on Supply-Side Economics. Do you know what Supply-Side Economics means? Do you know who George HW Bush was? Do you know who Keynes was? Do you know what time it is? Can you count change if someone asks you to break a five? Where am I?


ETA: I was responding to post # 1145, for which, I'm sad to say, da yoof of the thread has been warned.... OMG, now I'm responding to "warned behaviour"! What will I come to?
 
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Ha! Dash can't ignore me!

I'm the only other legitimate highschool dropout here, and besides.... I'm smarter than him, as he readily has proven by his own evidence!

So.... when are you getting out of Silver, Dash. How much did you buy and at what price? I look forward to your brilliant prognostications. I've bought 1 trillion ounces of silver based on your recommendation. The only question, as with all markets, is WHEN DO I GET OUT???? Help me, Dash! Please!!! I'm relying on your brilliance. (Me and OneShoteKi11... who's invested his entire lunch money and allowance in silver.)

And how come you and your b*tard child can't recognize the diffference between statements of GHWB and RR? Do tell, Oh, enlightened one. I want so much to learn from you. :spjimlad::spjimlad::spjimlad:
 
Yeah, you're right. BTW you just made my ignore list. "STFU". Such language...

Silver @ $20.39, up 2.93%.
attention_whore3.jpg
 
Ha! Dash can't ignore me!

I'm the only other legitimate highschool dropout here, and besides.... I'm smarter than him, as he readily has proven by his own evidence!

So.... when are you getting out of Silver, Dash. How much did you buy and at what price? I look forward to your brilliant prognostications. I've bought 1 trillion ounces of silver based on your recommendation. The only question, as with all markets, is WHEN DO I GET OUT???? Help me, Dash! Please!!! I'm relying on your brilliance. (Me and OneShoteKi11... who's invested his entire lunch money and allowance in silver.)

And how come you and your b*tard child can't recognize the diffference between statements of GHWB and RR? Do tell, Oh, enlightened one. I want so much to learn from you. :spjimlad::spjimlad::spjimlad:

Why so much hostility?

I'm not a high school dropout, I graduated from high school. I dropped out of college -- I attended UCB for a couple of years.

Regarding GHWB and RR quotes, the point is irrelevant, as I explained above. I use the term "Voodoo economics" in a different way, in a different context, in a different era. It doesn't matter who used the term first.

Anyway about when to get out of silver -- very good question. It's important to pay attention to the gold/silver ratio. Historically it is around 15 to 1. Today it's around 49 to 1. That means silver is undervalued with respect to gold.

A lot of smart people are planning on trading silver for gold as the ratio gets back down to normal levels -- say 15 to 1. Now because silver has all sorts of industrial uses, and because it is really really scarce, it might just go below 15:1 ratio with gold. Some people have speculated it could spike down to 1:1 ratio -- an ounce of gold is the same cost as an ounce of silver. So some smart guys I know are planning on trading silver for gold, bit by bit, as the ratio gets down to 1:1.

It may be safer to store wealth as gold. Antol Fekete has a whole essay on why gold is more safe than anything else. The main argument is that there is just so godawful much gold that has been dug up. And the amount being added to due to mining is small compared to the aboveground stockpile. That means there is a good deal of stability. It's not going to go up quickly, it's not going to go down quickly.

Silver, on the other hand, is much more scarce, in terms of how much is used in industry, and how much has already been used up. It's inherently more volatile.

Anyway I haven't really given much though as to when to sell silver. Perhaps never. I might just pass it on to my children. I'm only about 20% invested in silver anyway. I'm also invested in mining stocks and energy trusts. I expect I'll sell these as I need cash to live on.

The thing about bubbles is you need to pay attention to the man on the street. In 1929 a rich fellow was riding in the elevator, and he overheard the elevator operator discussing his portfolio. He said he was doing really well. In those days people could buy on margin, maybe 10 to 1. Meaning for $100 you could buy $1000 in stocks. Anyway hearing this elevator operator talking about his investents scared the heck out of the rich fellow. He sold his portfolio that day. The stock market crashed shortly thereafter.

When you see rampant borrowing to buy something, that's a sign of danger. When you see every random person you talk to discussing their investments in something, that's a danger sign. What it means is that there are no more people to buy into the bubble. So it must collapse. What goes up, must go down. That's the time to sell out.

It was predictable in the 1999 timeframe -- the dot-com boom was crashing. It was predictable in the 2007 timeframe -- the housing boom crashed (and is still crashing). Regarding the housing boom, the prevalence of ARM loans (teaser loans), the 0 money down loans, the sheer volume of people investing in real estate -- these are all danger signs.

The ride hasn't even begun in earnest on precious metals, or their associated mining stocks.

Just as important as knowing when to sell, is knowing what to move wealth into. It's not just a matter of selling silver and switching back to dollars. Heavens no. Suppose you buy $100 worth of silver. Then silver goes up by a factor of 10, so it's now worth $1000. So you sell and hang onto your $1000, congratulating yourself. But then silver keeps rising, and it goes to $10,000. You've just given back all your gains.

Keep in mind the dollars are declining in value, so some rise in precious metals is due to inflation (or dollar devaluation). Some rise is due to investor speculation. Some is due to scarcity as industry keeps using it up.

Anyway I'm not even close to consider selling any of the silver I have. Rather, I'd love to buy more. But I'm already 100% invested.

Hope this post was informative.

-Dave
 
Anyway about when to get out of silver -- very good question. It's important to pay attention to the gold/silver ratio. Historically it is around 15 to 1. Today it's around 49 to 1. That means silver is undervalued with respect to gold.
Alternatively, it could mean that gold is way overvalued.
 

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