The case against Dr. Paul

[OneShotKi11]

OneShot, dash called textbook economics "voodoo" - literally...he used that precise word twice. I don't know how you can possibly interpret his rants as balanced and reasonable scepticism.

Well right now im not discussing his policies on Gold and whatnot. Im addressing the point he tried to make in the large block of text everyone has been giving him flak over. That being said i can move on to his voodoo comment.

This although i find totally inaccurate i felt was more of a poor choice of wording by him, and not exactly represents his thoughts fairly so i ignored it.

I have read large portions of what he has written and felt his point was clearly made. I also do not believe that he actually thinks all college text books are "VooDoo" for that would be nonsense.
When i read it i just assumed poor choice in wording.

I could be wrong, and he could come here and state himself that they are all "VooDoo" again to reassure to me that this is his actual beliefs. I would then disgree with him on that, but i would not carry that over to the other topics being debated. Thus i still would not disagree with his belief on how one should research a given topic.
I still believe that researching outside of what you learn in college and then coming to your own conclusions when all aspects have been given the proper analysis, is the best way to go about becoming informed.

 

[D'rok]

Well right now im not discussing his policies on Gold and whatnot. Im addressing the point he tried to make in the large block of text everyone has been giving him flak over. That being said i can move on to his voodoo comment.

This although i find totally inaccurate i felt was more of a poor choice of wording by him, and not exactly represents his thoughts fairly so i ignored it.

I have read large portions of what he has written and felt his point was clearly made. I also do not believe that he actually thinks all college text books are "VooDoo" for that would be nonsense.
When i read it i just assumed poor choice in wording.

I could be wrong, and he could come here and state himself that they are all "VooDoo" again to reassure to me that this is his actual beliefs. I would then disgree with him on that, but i would not carry that over to the other topics being debated. Thus i still would not disagree with his belief on how one should research a given topic.
I still believe that researching outside of what you learn in college and then coming to your own conclusions when all aspects have been given the proper analysis, is the best way to go about becoming informed.

Oh c'mon.

Your college courses on economics are all voodoo anyway, don't expect to really understand it if you only go on what you pick up there...

The voodoo economics is Keynesian theory, BTW. I'm a fan of Austrian Theory

 

[marksman]

I think that is more of your own assumption then actually what has been stated by Dave. This could be just a difference in our interpretation of words

That's what I said. His wording was so vague that those inclined to support them could put the best spin and those who don't put the worst. The problem lies in his own inarticulateness. Read in a bad light, it's consistent with his denigration of economics textbooks as voodoo and other denigrating remarks he made about academic scholarship. You, inclined to put the bext spin on his words, ignored the remarks about academia. But all that means is Dave's words are a cipher onto which we each transcribe our own interpretation. Hardly a paragon of clarity, eh?

Again he did not say limit your information from the internet, for that would be stupid.

I think his statement sounded stupid. You don't.

Then again you must consider this which inturn would go along with Dave's point....
Did i really just explain his point better?

You made your interpretation of his point clearly. Only Dave could tell us if you stated it accurately.

Why did i understand what he said?

I'm not sure you did.

 

[OneShotKi11]

Hmmm, let's go with this analogy a bit further. Economists once believed that all currencies had to be backed by a tangible asset. But then economies started to grow beyond the value of those tangible assets. Fiat money came into being, under the principal that it isn't what a curency is backed with that makes it valuable, but what it can purchase - the currency is a store of value, your labor converted into currency. So long as currency still has to be earned, it has value. This has worked well for the last 75 years or so in just about every country on the planet. Now along comes Ron Paul and his water carrier dash with the gold standard nonsense. This is the equivalent not of the early Greeks deducing that the Earth was round in that long-ago age when everyone thought it was flat, but of the Flat Earthers today trying to convince everyone that the Earth is flat when everyone with a shred of common sense knows it is indeed round.

Ron Paul is to economics as the Flat Earth Society is to the shape of the Earth.

QED

You would be the one to add a specific example to an ideology. What you did can be done for both sides of the argument multiply times. Which inturn would not show who was more accurate.

I was trying to make a point, my point being that you should not discourage outside sources and studies without first examining them for yourself.

But to play your game with a quick example off the top of my head.


Tonsils were once considered a needed part of your body.....

Doctors many years later realized they were useless and could be removed without worry, from the body when infected......

Further down the line it has come to light that they helped to prevent cancer and should no longer be removed with reckless abandon.

So your example if you carefully read over mine and how it relates to what you have stated, is all in all mute.
Please stop trying to play games which is more often then not what you tend to do.

 

[WildCat]

You would be the one to add a specific example to an ideology. What you did can be done for both sides of the argument multiply times. Which inturn would not show who was more accurate.

I was trying to make a point, my point being that you should not discourage outside sources and studies without first examining them for yourself.

But to play your game with a quick example off the top of my head.


Tonsils were once considered a needed part of your body.....

Doctors many years later realized they were useless and could be removed without worry, from the body when infected......

Further down the line it has come to light that they helped to prevent cancer and should no longer be removed with reckless abandon.

So your example if you carefully read over mine and how it relates to what you have stated, is all in all mute.
Please stop trying to play games which is more often then not what you tend to do.

What a poor analogy! Doctors never declared that the tonsils had no function, just that they didn't know what it was.

There are no serious economists who think asset-backed currency is a good idea. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zippo.

Consider this: Let's say, just for giggles, that Ron Paul gets elected and abolishes the fed. We are going to back every dollar with gold from now on! We have ~235 billion in gold reserves. Which means that in Year 1 of the Ron Paul Revolution every last bit of gold goes to paying interest on the debt, and doesn't even pay it all! There are no more dollars to go around either, since there is no more gold to tie to the currency! Now the US must mine gold or become completely insolvent, but of course there's no way in hell that trillions of dollars in gold can be mined in less than 1 year. In fact, all the gold ever mined in the history of Earth is worth a bit more than $2 trillion.

Welcome to total economic collapse, and a barter economy. You and dash will be hoarding your gold and silver, but I suspect that those hoarding the guns and ammo will be better off than you will be...

Seriously, you guys really can't figure out that a $13 trillion economy cannot run of $235 billion worth of gold? This is not just a stupid idea, it's a monumentally stupid idea. Way more stupid than thinking the Earth is flat actually, so you're right there, my analogy wasn't adequate.

 

[OneShotKi11]

What a poor analogy! Doctors never declared that the tonsils had no function, just that they didn't know what it was.

There are no serious economists who think asset-backed currency is a good idea. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zippo.

Consider this: Let's say, just for giggles, that Ron Paul gets elected and abolishes the fed. We are going to back every dollar with gold from now on! We have ~235 billion in gold reserves. Which means that in Year 1 of the Ron Paul Revolution every last bit of gold goes to paying interest on the debt, and doesn't even pay it all! There are no more dollars to go around either, since there is no more gold to tie to the currency! Now the US must mine gold or become completely insolvent, but of course there's no way in hell that trillions of dollars in gold can be mined in less than 1 year. In fact, all the gold ever mined in the history of Earth is worth a bit more than $2 trillion.

Welcome to total economic collapse, and a barter economy. You and dash will be hoarding your gold and silver, but I suspect that those hoarding the guns and ammo will be better off than you will be...

Seriously, you guys really can't figure out that a $13 trillion economy cannot run of $235 billion worth of gold? This is not just a stupid idea, it's a monumentally stupid idea. Way more stupid than thinking the Earth is flat actually, so you're right there, my analogy wasn't adequate.

Its pointless to talk to you. You are by far the worst reader on this forum. I already stated that i am not debating anything about economics for i know nothing about of them. So what ever conversation you are trying to drag me into to make yourself feel better SAVE IT!

I was talking totally of another topic which i dont care to type about anymore, and if you want to know of what i was discussing go and read back.

Again because you are unable to read i will restate....
I am have clue of anything that has to do with Economics. I was not and will not debate them for that exact reason. You continuously try to drag me into the debate and i will continuously tell you to stop being foolish.

All i know about economics was what a Social Studies school book taught me.
That being that every bit of U.S. money was backed by gold.
Goes to show you how much i know and how reliable our classrooms are....

Thus my opinion that one should seek to further educate once self outside of the books they are handed in school. Which then ties into my original debate and point that Dave was making. Go back and read whats going on and maybe you will understand.

GG

 

[WildCat]

I already stated that i am not debating anything about economics for i know nothing about of them.

No wonder you support Ron Paul, you have much in common. Or maybe it's his attempts every year to pass a bill through Congress forbidding any Federal courts to hear Establishment Clause cases that enamor you to him? Got to get Jesus back in the schools! Or is it Ron Paul's courageous stances against the fictional North American Union and the equally fictitious Amero that gets him your support?

One can only wonder!

 

[David Wong]

Nevermind, I've invested as much time as I'm willing to in this endeavor.

-Dave

Is this the... fifth time he's left the thread? Sixth?

This is parody, isn't it? He's a parody poster.

 

[David Wong]

Somehow I was lucky enough to acquire this knowledge, I kind of feel obligated to give back somehow. Pass it on.

Dash, would you say you are now the most knowledgeable person on this forum?

If so, would you further say you are the most knowledgeable person on the planet?

 

[Foolmewunz]

Well, I'm a frakkin' genius, then!

I bought silver at ten bucks!

Unfortunately, that was during the last "end of the world as we know it", in 1980, and by 1991 it was worth $3.00!

Have fun in your cave, Dave!

The trick in any of these cycles is when to get out. When you get blogger-geeks kiting the item, it's not long before John Q Public takes a bath. My 1000 oz of silver cost 10K in 1980. Today it's worth 20,000! Wow! 100% profit in 27 years! (But that 10K in a weak-assed money market fund at 5% would've been 37K today, and in the early 80s, you could still get CDs at 10/12%!)

 

[Foolmewunz]

Dash, would you say you are now the most knowledgeable person on this forum?

If so, would you further say you are the most knowledgeable person on the planet?

No,that would be me - based on Dave's logic.

I'm a high school drop out. Match him there.
Ah, but I have sixty-five people working for me, and Dave only had 20. Ergo, I'm over 3 fold smarter than Dave.

I rest my case.

Follow me to the diamond mines, lads! They're just up 'round the bend!

 

[WildCat]

No,that would be me - based on Dave's logic.

I'm a high school drop out. Match him there.
Ah, but I have sixty-five people working for me, and Dave only had 20. Ergo, I'm over 3 fold smarter than Dave.

I rest my case.

Follow me to the diamond mines, lads! They're just up 'round the bend!

That'll get you on dash's ignore list real quick!

 

[Foolmewunz]

That'll get you on dash's ignore list real quick!

Well, that's how he's the smartest guy on the forum; not being able to see any posts by us really edumacated people!

At this point Dave's reduced to discussing economic theory with Iamme, Amy, and that turkish guy who thinks he's Aesop.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

No wonder you support Ron Paul, you have much in common. Or maybe it's his attempts every year to pass a bill through Congress forbidding any Federal courts to hear Establishment Clause cases that enamor you to him? Got to get Jesus back in the schools! Or is it Ron Paul's courageous stances against the fictional North American Union and the equally fictitious Amero that gets him your support?

One can only wonder!

I was just wondering-Do you have the ability to read and comprehend what you are quoting? It matters not what someone writes, you just pick up the same mud balls and sling them without any concept of what you are responding to.

This is what is called a one trick pony.

 

[Oliver]

No wonder you support Ron Paul, you have much in common. Or maybe it's his attempts every year to pass a bill through Congress forbidding any Federal courts to hear Establishment Clause cases that enamor you to him? Got to get Jesus back in the schools! Or is it Ron Paul's courageous stances against the fictional North American Union and the equally fictitious Amero that gets him your support?

One can only wonder!

Of course one can only wonder. And to prove my claim, I'm actually going to post some statements you will never hear from a clueless "frontrunner" ... since they tend to care more about looking good and blabber comfortable sounding, but essentially worthless rhetoric about each other rather than adressing the upcoming challenges for the Nation:



So for what reason doesn't Obama, Hillarious or McPain address those primary issues for the health of the country - other than don't knowing much about it -aka- McCain: "Me gots experts", Hillary: "Forget economy - Me got Healthcare cheap" and Obama: " ".

 

[D'rok]

Of course one can only wonder. And to prove my claim, I'm actually going to post some statements you will never hear from a clueless "frontrunner" ... since they tend to care more about looking good and blabber comfortable sounding, but essentially worthless rhetoric about each other rather than adressing the upcoming challenges for the Nation:



So for what reason doesn't Obama, Hillarious or McPain address those primary issues for the health of the country - other than don't knowing much about it -aka- McCain: "Me gots experts", Hillary: "Forget economy - Me got Healthcare cheap" and Obama: " ".

Welcome to democracy. Mass rule means politicians must appeal to the masses during campaign time. Appearance is more important than reality on the campaign trail. Most people want symbols, not policies; feelings, not facts; and saviours, not technocrats. (That includes the Ronulans btw)

Luckily, Ron Paul is so open and honest about his horrific policies and ignores appearances to such a degree that no-one will vote for him. With RP, what you see is what you get (mostly), and YIKES! it ain't pretty.

 

[WildCat]

Of course one can only wonder.
........................................

I'm sorry, did you really just post a video of Ron Paul commenting on economic issues? Holy crap, you did!

You really expect me to be impressed by a guy who thinks $235 billion in gold can a $13 trillion economy? Why, yes you do!

I'll ask the same question of you to which your fellow Ron Paul supporters can only stamp their feet and cry (see Jerome's post above yours for an example): After Ron Paul abolishes the Fed and institutes his gold standard economic model, whatever will the government do after all available currency goes to pay interest on the debt in year 1 of the Ron Paul revolution? The US is down to a barter economy then, correct?

Any other Ron Paul supporter, feel free to explain how this will work, as I have no doubts that Oliver will run away from the question.

If you can't answer the question, spare me Ron Paul's economic analysis on anything bigger than a lemonade stand.

 

[gambling_cruiser]

I don't think Ron Paul would be able to avoid bancrupty with a lemonade stand

 

[gambling_cruiser]

And Oliver doesn't vote in Germany but wants RP as president of the U.S.A.!

 

[dash]

I have read large portions of what he has written and felt his point was clearly made. I also do not believe that he actually thinks all college text books are "VooDoo" for that would be nonsense.
When i read it i just assumed poor choice in wording.

I could be wrong, and he could come here and state himself that they are all "VooDoo" again to reassure to me that this is his actual beliefs.

I did an ETA on the post before, where I specified what I meant about voodoo (I believe it was a Ronald Reagan expression). Keynesian economics = voodoo economics. The concept that the Fed's responsibility is to prevent boom/bust cycles, when in fact they actually cause them. They cause price inflation by constantly devaluing the currency (by always introducing more of it into the economy). I am a fan of the Austrian school, as is Peter Schiff, and all people who have an ounce of common sense.

OneShotKi11 -- I am amazed at your effort to refute the people on this forum. You realized WildCat is just noise, can't read, makes irrelevant "points" pretty quickly. That's why he's in my ignore list. Along with a lot of other people. But I have to say you understood my points perfectly, the ones that came up in your discussion. Thank you.

I won't try to restate my point again, because those that are capable of getting it already got it from my earlier posts, and those that aren't capable of getting it won't get it anyway. Chalk it up to a blind spot or something. Oh well...

Very good point about the world used to be flat. I'm sure the point was completely lost on a lot of people here though.

-Dave