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The case against Dr. Paul

I'm sure the point was completely lost on a lot of people here though.

BTW here's my current ignore list. I hope this server doesn't have a set limit... :)

Corsair 115
D'rok
David Wong
dudalb
Elizabeth I
Foolmewunz
gambling_cruiser
marksman
Suddenly
Tokorona
WildCat

I tell you, reading these forums is a lot less irritating when you make wise use of the ignore function. It's a godsend. And it has a strange effect -- the postings that aren't eliminated by the filter bring up the average intelligence level of the whole site.

-Dave
 
I did an ETA on the post before, where I specified what I meant about voodoo (I believe it was a Ronald Reagan expression). Keynesian economics = voodoo economics. The concept that the Fed's responsibility is to prevent boom/bust cycles, when in fact they actually cause them. They cause price inflation by constantly devaluing the currency (by always introducing more of it into the economy). I am a fan of the Austrian school, as is Peter Schiff, and all people who have an ounce of common sense.

OneShotKi11 -- I am amazed at your effort to refute the people on this forum. You realized WildCat is just noise, can't read, makes irrelevant "points" pretty quickly. That's why he's in my ignore list. Along with a lot of other people. But I have to say you understood my points perfectly, the ones that came up in your discussion. Thank you.

I won't try to restate my point again, because those that are capable of getting it already got it from my earlier posts, and those that aren't capable of getting it won't get it anyway. Chalk it up to a blind spot or something. Oh well...

Very good point about the world used to be flat. I'm sure the point was completely lost on a lot of people here though.

-Dave

I am young but not dumb!

This i already knew my friend for i researched it myself. Yet did not want to be wrong and allow nitwits like some on these forums to have more fuel for the fire. If i made the claim you were talking of Ronald Reagan without actually knowing for sure they would have hung me with stupidity.

As for the world being Flat....
Yes the point was totally lost and Wildcat was the first to respond to it. Go figure!
 
I'm sorry, did you really just post a video of Ron Paul commenting on economic issues? Holy crap, you did!

You really expect me to be impressed by a guy who thinks $235 billion in gold can a $13 trillion economy? Why, yes you do!

I'll ask the same question of you to which your fellow Ron Paul supporters can only stamp their feet and cry (see Jerome's post above yours for an example): After Ron Paul abolishes the Fed and institutes his gold standard economic model, whatever will the government do after all available currency goes to pay interest on the debt in year 1 of the Ron Paul revolution? The US is down to a barter economy then, correct?

Any other Ron Paul supporter, feel free to explain how this will work, as I have no doubts that Oliver will run away from the question.

If you can't answer the question, spare me Ron Paul's economic analysis on anything bigger than a lemonade stand.

Let me quote Dr. Paul for you.

"I wouldn't exactly go back on the gold standard but I would legalize the constitution where gold and silver should and could be legal tender, which would restrain the Federal Government from spending and then turning that over to the Federal Reserve and letting the Federal Reserve print the money."

http://www.nolanchart.com/article290.html

"Paul has said that he does not want to abolish the Federal Reserve overnight because it would cause massive economic disruption. Presumably, the Fed would be abolished only after the the masses converted to sound money. If that occurs, then the Fed would have already become irrelevant anyway, so doing away with it would be a non-event."

You know very little about what he says and believes. You should read up on the man instead of following around and Quoting from your Anti Ron Paul club. They know just as little!

After you read up on what the man actually believes and what he actually would do then you can come back and continue with your debating. Until then your keep rather baseless rants that seem pretty accurate to the uninformed when they are infact actually rather stupid to yourself!!!

This is not a post trying to defend Ron Pauls beliefs nor am i trying to say they are whats best for the nation.
I know that if i do not state this you will mistake it for that, but from my experiences with you your going to mistake it even with my disclaimer. Actually to be more accurate you will just purposely ignore it and argue around the fact.

This post was more of a fact checker for you so that you can stop saying things like "Ron Paul abolishes the Fed" and wants to go back to a gold standard.
It is just inaccurate and their is nothing more to say about it.

GG
 
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Oooh, a mutual admiration society!

Gosh, Mr. Dash, I'd sure like to be brilliant like you.
Love,
Young and Clueless (now d.b.a. OneShotKill)


Jeez, you two belong together. Have you not read any other threads on these forums. The "yeah, and once the earth was flat" argument has been used not less than a hundred times. Yet, you guys are going double-jointed patting yourselves on the back over discovering this clever rhetorical tactic for the first time! Next week, will you work on "I'm rubber and you're glue... etc..." My Ed, that'll be a real thigh-slapper!

I'm humbled. Humbled, I tells ya.... to be in the presence of such underwhelming intellect.

Question: Does the lack of formal education prevent one from knowing that "Voodoo Economics" was use against Reagan, and not by Reagan? And it did not describe Keynesian economics, but Supply-Side.

How can the smartest person on the forum not know this?
 
Hey! dash is back! Start the countdown to the next dramatic departure. How many is it now?
 
I tell you, reading these forums is a lot less irritating when you make wise use of the ignore function. It's a godsend. And it has a strange effect -- the postings that aren't eliminated by the filter bring up the average intelligence level of the whole site.
Most folks use the Ignore List to remove posters they find who are needlessly arrogant, aggressive, insulting, or trolling in their posts.

You, on the other hand, apparently use your Ignore List to avoid reading posts which contradict your world view. Not for arrogance, not for aggressiveness or insulting behaviour, not for trolling, but because you seemingly can't bear to have your preconceptions challenged.

I imagine at the rate you're going you'll soon have the entire forum on your Ignore List.
 
BTW here's my current ignore list. I hope this server doesn't have a set limit... :)

Corsair 115
D'rok
David Wong
dudalb
Elizabeth I
Foolmewunz
gambling_cruiser
marksman
Suddenly
Tokorona
WildCat

I tell you, reading these forums is a lot less irritating when you make wise use of the ignore function. It's a godsend. And it has a strange effect -- the postings that aren't eliminated by the filter bring up the average intelligence level of the whole site.

-Dave
My first time on an ignore list! LOL
Dash didn't even mention why I got honored!
But as the people on his ignore list know more about the topics than dash
it's inavoidable he will be reading only Paulbots in the future.
How dense can you get?
 
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BTW here's my current ignore list. I hope this server doesn't have a set limit... :)

Corsair 115
D'rok
David Wong
dudalb
Elizabeth I
Foolmewunz
gambling_cruiser
marksman
Suddenly
Tokorona
WildCat

I tell you, reading these forums is a lot less irritating when you make wise use of the ignore function. It's a godsend. And it has a strange effect -- the postings that aren't eliminated by the filter bring up the average intelligence level of the whole site.

-Dave

Yes it is alot less irritating adding obnoxiousness and moronic behaving individuals to the ignore list.

Seeing that some of those you have on your list are neither, but rather are good honest souls, feel free to add me to your list dash, as you have just made mine.

TAM:)
 
BTW here's my current ignore list. I hope this server doesn't have a set limit... :)

Corsair 115
D'rok
David Wong
dudalb
Elizabeth I
Foolmewunz
gambling_cruiser
marksman
Suddenly
Tokorona
WildCat
Well that's certainly much easier than arguing with people who know more about the subject than you do!
 
I did an ETA on the post before, where I specified what I meant about voodoo (I believe it was a Ronald Reagan expression). Keynesian economics = voodoo economics.

I am young but not dumb!

This i already knew my friend for i researched it myself.
Oh dear! Once again, dash and OneShotKill are 00% wrong. George HW Bush actually called Reagan's economics "voodoo economics" in a 1980 debate. Bush later realized he was wrong and adopted much the same policies in his Presidency (except that tax thing ;)).

Not that being 100% wrong has stopped you guys from spouting off nonsense before.
 
Let me quote Dr. Paul for you.

"I wouldn't exactly go back on the gold standard but I would legalize the constitution where gold and silver should and could be legal tender, which would restrain the Federal Government from spending and then turning that over to the Federal Reserve and letting the Federal Reserve print the money."
News flash to you and Ron Paul: the Federal Reserve does not print money. The US Treasury does.

"Paul has said that he does not want to abolish the Federal Reserve overnight because it would cause massive economic disruption. Presumably, the Fed would be abolished only after the the masses converted to sound money. If that occurs, then the Fed would have already become irrelevant anyway, so doing away with it would be a non-event."
Which means... Ron Paul wants to abolish the Federal Reserve! I've already explained the problem here - $13 trillion economy, $235 billion in gold. This is a big problem for you Ronulans!

Federal Reserve Notes are "sound money". Fiat currency is used by every nation on earth, for reasons even simpletons can understand, but moRons can't.

After you read up on what the man actually believes and what he actually would do then you can come back and continue with your debating. Until then your keep rather baseless rants that seem pretty accurate to the uninformed when they are infact actually rather stupid to yourself!!!
Except that Ron Paul does want to go back to the gold standard, you just said so yourself!

This post was more of a fact checker
Like you and dash's bizarre assertion about Reagan and "voodoo economics"? :rolleyes:

for you so that you can stop saying things like "Ron Paul abolishes the Fed" and wants to go back to a gold standard.
It is just inaccurate and their is nothing more to say about it.
Except you just said he did! Just because he wouldn't do it immediately, but further down the road doesn't change that fact does it? Ron Paul is an idiot any way you slice it. $235 billion in gold cannot back a $13 trillion economy. And this ratio will only get worse as the economy continues to grow faster than gold can be mined.
 
At this rate, Dash won't just think he's thesmartest person on the forum. He'll think he's the only one!
 
Wlidcat keeps harping on the same issue, which I've tried to explain in the past.

Here is an example: Einstein's special relativity requires the conceptualization of ideas that don't reflect common experience. For example, when you speed things up to near the speed of light, they contract along the line of motion. But you only see this if you're stationary. The mathematics involved work out such that to all observers, they each see something completely different, yet they're all consistent.

The fact is there are a lot of people that are simply incapable of understanding special relativity. They can study it, they can struggle with it, can try very hard, but in the end they seem to be incapable of grasping it. It's just a sort of blind spot, or something.

The concept of 250 billion in gold backing a 13 trillion dollar economy is a blind spot to Wildcat, which he appears simply incapable of understanding. To understand it one has to think outside the box. One has to grasp a bigger picture, and wildcat appears unable to make this step.

The dollar isn't backed by anything. You can't go to where dollars are printed and get anything tangible and fixed for your dollars. You can only trade your dollars with other people that have real things and are willing to accept your dollars in exchange. The dollar is a representation of wealth and value only because collectively enough people have faith that it has value. It is merely a piece of paper (or cloth, whatever it's made of), supposedly difficult to conterfeit, and it has "Federal Reserve Note" stamped on it. Aside from that it's valueless.

Now the true situation is that the dollar is way, way, way overvalued. People are able to buy real things for their dollars merely because huge economic entities (nations, large corporations) are willing to hoard dollars, and keep them out of circulation. China has something like 1.5 trillion dollars just sitting around. These aren't being spent. They're just...there. Some of those dollars are recycled back into the US national debt by buying Treasuries. This finances ongoing US government operations (like the war in Iraq, or the US empire in general, or all the federal entitlement programs).

Now if everyone hoarding dollars were to at the same time try to exchange their dollars for things of real value, what happens? Suddenly the price of everything, in dollars, must rise, because you have a fixed amount of goods and services for sale, and a vast amount of dollars trying to buy them. The price must rise. That means dollars effectively become worth less and less. How far down can they go? Anyone's guess. And it depends on what the government and the fed do. They can simply continue pumping more dollars into the economy, and this makes the problem worse. This is what smart people are expecting "Helicopter Ben" to do to try to combat the recession/depression we're in.

This was Bernanke's claim -- he boasted that he'd have been able to solve the 1930's depression, no problem -- just run the printing presses until the depression ends. Dumping dollars out of helicopters. This is his philosophy, and magically he has the opportunity to test it out. But it won't work. It can't work. All it can do is make the situation worse.

The US needs a financial collapse in order to deflate the ridiculous bubble/debt economy we find outselves in today. The dollar value is just a huge, bloated balloon, searching for a pin to pop it. There is simply no way to preserve the buying power of all the dollars in existence. It just can't happen, impossible, there is no magical way to do it. Once the dollar falls enough, everyone hoarding dollars will start a manic rush to sell their dollars. It is a positive feedback system -- getting out of dollars makes the dollar even more valueless, and that causes more people to want to escape dollars...a downward spiral.

All fiat currencies in history have always ended thus. With a panic attempt to get rid of them in exchange for things of real value, before they truly become worthless.

So the concept of Ron Paul supporting a gold backed currency does not address the issue of how to preserve the existing distribution of dollar wealth and buying power. That problem cannot be solved. The value will vanish one way or another and there is no way of stopping it. Individuals who act first can preserve 100% of their dollar wealth. Ones who act slower can preserve some of their wealth. Those who wait too long will lose all their wealth, when the dollar finally collapses. When a loaf of bread costs $1000 today, and $1500 tomorrow.

A gold standard is for the aftermath of the collapse. It is for how to recover after the dollar collapses. The dollar is replaced by a "New Dollar" or whatever you want to call it. This "New Dollar" is backed by gold, at a fixed exchange rate. Somehow it's introduced into circulation, and people grow to trust it. Some people receive these ND's and convert them to physical gold. Others are content to hold the ND's themselves. The point of the ND is to keep government honest. They can't simply print more ND's and dump them into circulation when the government wishes to pay for things not directly financed through taxation -- as a means to buy re-election for example.

The concept that wildcat is unable to fathom is that the current dollars are toast, there is no going back to a dollar standard on the current dollars, where the dollars can be redeemed at a fixed exchange rate for some amount of gold. No one except wildcat believes Ron Paul intends to attempt that. And in fact if dollars were to be backed by gold, the correct exchange rate might stabilize around $40,000 per ounce.

The current USA economy is in the process of collapse. We're just in the earlier stages of it. Vast existing wealth will simply evaporate, like the morning dew under a strong sun. There is no way to stop it. All the debt owed to people holding bonds will simply vanish, as the dollars the bonds are valued in become worth less and less.

It is a great time to be in debt -- provided you don't have adjustable rates on your debt. So if you've got a 30 year fixed mortgage at 6% you're in fantastic shape. You'll basically be getting your house for free. But if you owe credit card debt where there is no mechanism to limit the interest the credit card company can charge on that debt, you could be screwed. They can simply raise the rate to 80% annual or whatever they need to to balance out the devaluation of the dollar. Or in the case of an ARM home loan, you could be screwed for the same reason if the interest rate goes way up after the teaser period ends.

It's a terrible time to have loaned out money, because the money you'll get paid back in (even assuming you get paid back, there are a lot of defaults going on and bankruptcies are increasing all the time) won't be as valuable.

A gold standard is a means to keep government honest. Our government isn't honest. They use devaluation of the currency as a means to finance re-election and to keep the public "content". They also use budget deficits to pay for stuff the taxpayers wouldn't ever OK, if they had to be funded out of taxes.

The thing Bernanke faces right now is 2 choices: On the one had he can keep interest rates ridiculously low, but this will have the effect of prolonging the bubble economy and it will destroy the value of the dollar. On the other he can raise interest rates very high (double digits) but this will choke off money and will usher in a massive recession -- but it will preserve the purchasing power of the dollar.

In the second case, the US citizenry must then make an honest attempt to pay down all the accumulated debt on all levels -- credit card debt, municipal debt/bonds, state bonds, and the federal government debt. That means years and years of budget surplusses to pay down the debt, buying back bonds. It will be a struggle to get back to zero debt. Bitter sacrifice and shockingly miserly spending all around.

This is a bitter pill to swallow. So in the end I and most people believe Bernanke will just keep pumping dollars into the system, hoping to buy another year, another month, another week, another day...hoping some miracle happens and the economy can run on its own without the constant injections of money. But it won't happen. It can't happen. Going down this path, foreign nations will give up on the dollar and will write off their accumulated hoards of wealth. This will cause a very sudden collapse of the dollar, and a depression to boot.

So it's do the right thing and suffer today, or continue doing the wrong thing and suffer a bit more tomorrow. And a bit more the next day. And even more the day after. Until the final day when the whole thing flies apart.

Ron Paul is the only candidate telling it like it is. All the others have no understanding of the economy, or if they do they're playing politician and quickly change the subject to something inane, like whether illegal aliens should have drivers' licenses. Ron Paul didn't create the economic disaster we're experiencing right now. He fought it every step of the way. Those who claim Ron Paul is a nutcase are just completely misunderstanding the real situation. Ron Paul represents a choice for the american people -- do you want to join reality, or continue living in a fantasy world. The fantasy world is collapsing in on itself even as we speak. I think the corrupt powers that be are merely scheming to get past the 2008 elections. Clinton, Obama or McCain, anyone will do. Just not Ron Paul. He's too honest and uncorruptable.

-Dave
 
W
Here is an example: Einstein's special relativity requires the conceptualization of ideas that don't reflect common experience. For example, when you speed things up to near the speed of light, they contract along the line of motion. But you only see this if you're stationary. The mathematics involved work out such that to all observers, they each see something completely different, yet they're all consistent.

The fact is there are a lot of people that are simply incapable of understanding special relativity. They can study it, they can struggle with it, can try very hard, but in the end they seem to be incapable of grasping it. It's just a sort of blind spot, or something.

The concept of 250 billion in gold backing a 13 trillion dollar economy is a blind spot to Wildcat, which he appears simply incapable of understanding. To understand it one has to think outside the box. One has to grasp a bigger picture, and wildcat appears unable to make this step.

I.. what? Seriosuly, what? You mean, abandon the principle of things needing backing! OK!

The dollar isn't backed by anything. You can't go to where dollars are printed and get anything tangible and fixed for your dollars. You can only trade your dollars with other people that have real things and are willing to accept your dollars in exchange. The dollar is a representation of wealth and value only because collectively enough people have faith that it has value. It is merely a piece of paper (or cloth, whatever it's made of), supposedly difficult to conterfeit, and it has "Federal Reserve Note" stamped on it. Aside from that it's valueless.

Yes. And all major economies work on that, because they know it's worth something. Namely, trade in goods.

Now the true situation is that the dollar is way, way, way overvalued. People are able to buy real things for their dollars merely because huge economic entities (nations, large corporations) are willing to hoard dollars, and keep them out of circulation. China has something like 1.5 trillion dollars just sitting around. These aren't being spent. They're just...there. Some of those dollars are recycled back into the US national debt by buying Treasuries. This finances ongoing US government operations (like the war in Iraq, or the US empire in general, or all the federal entitlement programs).

Now if everyone hoarding dollars were to at the same time try to exchange their dollars for things of real value, what happens? Suddenly the price of everything, in dollars, must rise, because you have a fixed amount of goods and services for sale, and a vast amount of dollars trying to buy them. The price must rise. That means dollars effectively become worth less and less. How far down can they go? Anyone's guess. And it depends on what the government and the fed do. They can simply continue pumping more dollars into the economy, and this makes the problem worse. This is what smart people are expecting "Helicopter Ben" to do to try to combat the recession/depression we're in.

Can someone else besides him say that? I seriously think his main method of fighting it is to lower interest rates. Seeing as how that's what he's doing.

This was Bernanke's claim -- he boasted that he'd have been able to solve the 1930's depression, no problem -- just run the printing presses until the depression ends. Dumping dollars out of helicopters. This is his philosophy, and magically he has the opportunity to test it out. But it won't work. It can't work. All it can do is make the situation worse.

Except he didn't say that.
Ben Bernake said:
Friedman and Schwartz emphasized at least four major errors by U.S. monetary policymakers. The Fed's first grave mistake, in their view, was the tightening of monetary policy that began in the spring of 1928 and continued until the stock market crash of October 1929 (see Hamilton, 1987, or Bernanke, 2002a, for further discussion). This tightening of monetary policy in 1928 did not seem particularly justified by the macroeconomic environment: The economy was only just emerging from a recession, commodity prices were declining sharply, and there was little hint of inflation. Why then did the Federal Reserve raise interest rates in 1928? The principal reason was the Fed's ongoing concern about speculation on Wall Street. Fed policymakers drew a sharp distinction between "productive" (that is, good) and "speculative" (bad) uses of credit, and they were concerned that bank lending to brokers and investors was fueling a speculative wave in the stock market. When the Fed's attempts to persuade banks not to lend for speculative purposes proved ineffective, Fed officials decided to dissuade lending directly by raising the policy interest rate.

If you read it, it's more that they raised interest rate, tightening the economy.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2004/200403022/default.htm

The US needs a financial collapse in order to deflate the ridiculous bubble/debt economy we find outselves in today. The dollar value is just a huge, bloated balloon, searching for a pin to pop it. There is simply no way to preserve the buying power of all the dollars in existence. It just can't happen, impossible, there is no magical way to do it. Once the dollar falls enough, everyone hoarding dollars will start a manic rush to sell their dollars. It is a positive feedback system -- getting out of dollars makes the dollar even more valueless, and that causes more people to want to escape dollars...a downward spiral.

All fiat currencies in history have always ended thus. With a panic attempt to get rid of them in exchange for things of real value, before they truly become worthless.

The gold standard is no longer used in any nation, having been replaced completely by fiat currency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

(So I should expect to see a global collapse.. right?)

So the concept of Ron Paul supporting a gold backed currency does not address the issue of how to preserve the existing distribution of dollar wealth and buying power. That problem cannot be solved. The value will vanish one way or another and there is no way of stopping it. Individuals who act first can preserve 100% of their dollar wealth. Ones who act slower can preserve some of their wealth. Those who wait too long will lose all their wealth, when the dollar finally collapses. When a loaf of bread costs $1000 today, and $1500 tomorrow.

A gold standard is for the aftermath of the collapse. It is for how to recover after the dollar collapses. The dollar is replaced by a "New Dollar" or whatever you want to call it. This "New Dollar" is backed by gold, at a fixed exchange rate. Somehow it's introduced into circulation, and people grow to trust it. Some people receive these ND's and convert them to physical gold. Others are content to hold the ND's themselves. The point of the ND is to keep government honest. They can't simply print more ND's and dump them into circulation when the government wishes to pay for things not directly financed through taxation -- as a means to buy re-election for example.

The concept that wildcat is unable to fathom is that the current dollars are toast, there is no going back to a dollar standard on the current dollars, where the dollars can be redeemed at a fixed exchange rate for some amount of gold. No one except wildcat believes Ron Paul intends to attempt that. And in fact if dollars were to be backed by gold, the correct exchange rate might stabilize around $40,000 per ounce.

The current USA economy is in the process of collapse. We're just in the earlier stages of it. Vast existing wealth will simply evaporate, like the morning dew under a strong sun. There is no way to stop it. All the debt owed to people holding bonds will simply vanish, as the dollars the bonds are valued in become worth less and less.

It is a great time to be in debt -- provided you don't have adjustable rates on your debt. So if you've got a 30 year fixed mortgage at 6% you're in fantastic shape. You'll basically be getting your house for free. But if you owe credit card debt where there is no mechanism to limit the interest the credit card company can charge on that debt, you could be screwed. They can simply raise the rate to 80% annual or whatever they need to to balance out the devaluation of the dollar. Or in the case of an ARM home loan, you could be screwed for the same reason if the interest rate goes way up after the teaser period ends.

It's a terrible time to have loaned out money, because the money you'll get paid back in (even assuming you get paid back, there are a lot of defaults going on and bankruptcies are increasing all the time) won't be as valuable.

A gold standard is a means to keep government honest. Our government isn't honest. They use devaluation of the currency as a means to finance re-election and to keep the public "content". They also use budget deficits to pay for stuff the taxpayers wouldn't ever OK, if they had to be funded out of taxes.

The thing Bernanke faces right now is 2 choices: On the one had he can keep interest rates ridiculously low, but this will have the effect of prolonging the bubble economy and it will destroy the value of the dollar. On the other he can raise interest rates very high (double digits) but this will choke off money and will usher in a massive recession -- but it will preserve the purchasing power of the dollar.

In the second case, the US citizenry must then make an honest attempt to pay down all the accumulated debt on all levels -- credit card debt, municipal debt/bonds, state bonds, and the federal government debt. That means years and years of budget surplusses to pay down the debt, buying back bonds. It will be a struggle to get back to zero debt. Bitter sacrifice and shockingly miserly spending all around.

This is a bitter pill to swallow. So in the end I and most people believe Bernanke will just keep pumping dollars into the system, hoping to buy another year, another month, another week, another day...hoping some miracle happens and the economy can run on its own without the constant injections of money. But it won't happen. It can't happen. Going down this path, foreign nations will give up on the dollar and will write off their accumulated hoards of wealth. This will cause a very sudden collapse of the dollar, and a depression to boot.

So it's do the right thing and suffer today, or continue doing the wrong thing and suffer a bit more tomorrow. And a bit more the next day. And even more the day after. Until the final day when the whole thing flies apart.

Ron Paul is the only candidate telling it like it is. All the others have no understanding of the economy, or if they do they're playing politician and quickly change the subject to something inane, like whether illegal aliens should have drivers' licenses. Ron Paul didn't create the economic disaster we're experiencing right now. He fought it every step of the way. Those who claim Ron Paul is a nutcase are just completely misunderstanding the real situation. Ron Paul represents a choice for the american people -- do you want to join reality, or continue living in a fantasy world. The fantasy world is collapsing in on itself even as we speak. I think the corrupt powers that be are merely scheming to get past the 2008 elections. Clinton, Obama or McCain, anyone will do. Just not Ron Paul. He's too honest and uncorruptable.

-Dave

And it's end of the world boilerplate.

ETA: Now to reload my ignore list, since I cleared it by accident, apparently.
 
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Just as easily as a government can get "on" a gold standard, it can get off and that's why the gold standard went away and is never coming back.

Maybe not. No empire lasts forever, also.

USA -- 232 years. It's been real. Too bad it had to end this way.

-Dave
 
The concept that wildcat is unable to fathom is that the current dollars are toast, there is no going back to a dollar standard on the current dollars, where the dollars can be redeemed at a fixed exchange rate for some amount of gold. No one except wildcat believes Ron Paul intends to attempt that. And in fact if dollars were to be backed by gold, the correct exchange rate might stabilize around $40,000 per ounce.
And what you have failed to grasp is that by artificially pricing gold at $40,000/oz all you've done is create a new fiat currency.
 

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