Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
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No, why are you ignorant, what the hell does, "Do not have any other gods before me" have to do with any laws.
Paul
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Paul
dafydd
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There was no ark,it's just an old story. Are you too ignorant to understand that?
Cainkane1
Philosopher
The reality of hell is like the reality of heaven or fairyland. All places are figments of someones imagination.People in here who are confused about hell, I think this makes it clear and it is what I have been saying about it.
So when Jesus said this generation shall not pass till you see me coming in the clouds is what is being reported by NDEs.
In Matthew it says: 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Be careful about what you think is total peace and nothingness, what you wish it to be, it doesn't last.
Edge runs and gets his sheild for those firey darts!
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
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The irony of your statement is that you display the ignorance of the Ten Commandments so widespread among Christians. Exodus Chapter 20 starts with a list of rules that have come to be thought of as the Ten Commandments by most Christians. Let's pretend for a moment that these really are the Ten Commandments which you claim are the basis for "all our civil law". Let's list these laws:
The problem for you is that the commands continue in Exodus Chapters 21, 22 and 23 where we learn about seducing virgins, selling our daughters into slavery and how it's acceptable to beat your slave to death as long as the slave doesn't die for a couple of day because, after all, the slave is your property. These chapters list an enormous number of rules for the Hebrews to follow. There is no mention of any commandments or stone tablets until chapter 32 when Moses finally brings them down from the mountain. But we aren't told what these commandments are. Then Moses sees the people worshipping an idol and, after he begged YHWH not to turn his wrath on the people, he turns his wrath on the people, smashing the tablets and gathering the Levites to go on a killing spree, slaughtering 3000 of their fellow tribesmen. Then Moses makes friends with YHWH again and in chapter 34 he goes and gets the replacement tablets, finally identified as the Ten Commandments, which consist of eight rewritten laws from chapter 23, one from chapter 13 and one brand new one.
You can throw out accusations of ignorance, but the facts, and your lack of knowledge regarding them, speak for themselves.
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gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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Christian interpretations of hell are rife with misunderstanding and inventions that have no basis in the religious texts. If you look at the actual religious texts, there's two separate concepts that have been conflated into the single concept of the modern hell.
The first is purgatory. Upon death any human, having sin, cannot enter heaven immediately, as they are not pure. A time of "cleansing" is required so that the soul can become pure and then enter heaven. That is purgatory, and prior to the new covenant, was the only way to get to heaven. Faith appears to have had no bearing on the matter, although the assumption is that a dedicated believer will have less sin upon dying and therefore will spend less time in purgatory.
When Jesus turned up and formed the new covenant, this all changed. Now, believers could achieve automatic cleansing simply by believing in Jesus and admitting to their sins while alive. This allowed them to avoid purgatory and go straight to heaven on death. What isn't spelled out is what happens to non-believers. A logical interpretation is that they would have to endure the old method of going into purgatory, being cleansed, and then ascending. However the failure to address this enabled the Church to come up with their own interpretation, as we'll see shortly.
Then came along revelations, and the second concept which contributed to the modern "hell". In revelations and other Armageddon-related scriptures, it's revealed that the various "baddies" (Satan, Lucifer, the Whore of Babylon, the Beast, etc) would be overthrown by the host of heaven at Armageddon and thrown into a "fiery pit" where they would be imprisoned for all time and have to suffer torment. Notably, this is the fate, not of mankind, but of supernatural villains, and it only occurs at the end of time.
Somewhere along the way a savvy Christian worked out that the threat of eternal torment has a heck of a bigger incentive to adhere to God's law than a finite time spent in purgatory. Because of that oversight in the New Covenant where the fate of non-believers wasn't specifically spelled out, there was plenty of wiggle room for theologians to embrace this new and rather radical interpretation.
Thus the doctrine was changed so that instead of purgatory, you either adhered to Jesus' teachings and went direct to heaven on death, or you suffered the same fate saved for Satan and the other nasties at the end of times; eternal imprisonment in a fiery pit.
The first is purgatory. Upon death any human, having sin, cannot enter heaven immediately, as they are not pure. A time of "cleansing" is required so that the soul can become pure and then enter heaven. That is purgatory, and prior to the new covenant, was the only way to get to heaven. Faith appears to have had no bearing on the matter, although the assumption is that a dedicated believer will have less sin upon dying and therefore will spend less time in purgatory.
When Jesus turned up and formed the new covenant, this all changed. Now, believers could achieve automatic cleansing simply by believing in Jesus and admitting to their sins while alive. This allowed them to avoid purgatory and go straight to heaven on death. What isn't spelled out is what happens to non-believers. A logical interpretation is that they would have to endure the old method of going into purgatory, being cleansed, and then ascending. However the failure to address this enabled the Church to come up with their own interpretation, as we'll see shortly.
Then came along revelations, and the second concept which contributed to the modern "hell". In revelations and other Armageddon-related scriptures, it's revealed that the various "baddies" (Satan, Lucifer, the Whore of Babylon, the Beast, etc) would be overthrown by the host of heaven at Armageddon and thrown into a "fiery pit" where they would be imprisoned for all time and have to suffer torment. Notably, this is the fate, not of mankind, but of supernatural villains, and it only occurs at the end of time.
Somewhere along the way a savvy Christian worked out that the threat of eternal torment has a heck of a bigger incentive to adhere to God's law than a finite time spent in purgatory. Because of that oversight in the New Covenant where the fate of non-believers wasn't specifically spelled out, there was plenty of wiggle room for theologians to embrace this new and rather radical interpretation.
Thus the doctrine was changed so that instead of purgatory, you either adhered to Jesus' teachings and went direct to heaven on death, or you suffered the same fate saved for Satan and the other nasties at the end of times; eternal imprisonment in a fiery pit.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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As I understand the dogma of the RCC ... and the Apostles' Creed ... Jesus spent a bit of time between giving up the ghost on the Cross and rolling away the stone. The narrative goes something like this:
Jesus went down into hell and "scourged Hell" in order to gather up all of the righteous souls down there and take them with him to heaven.
After he accomplished that important task, he then rolled away the stone and played a number of pranks on his Apostles while trying to cheer them up. They'd gone all paranoid and scared once he'd been nailed to the timbers, it seems ...
I think Himself reading the Book would induce a lot of giggles, possibly causing any number of earthquakes.
Oh crap, I have a bad feeling about what happened near Japan recently ...
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And you asked me in another thread why I called names?
I figured it was part of talking that you would understand.
I hear New York had some tremors too.
dafydd
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You called somebody ignorant. Is English your first language,those two sentences above barely make sense. I was just wondering if you were intelligent enough to understand that hell is a myth. No such place.
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
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Lets see if this helps.
I am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
Do not take the name of the Lord in vain
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not kill/murder†
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal††
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife
You shall not covet‡ anything that belongs to your neighbor
Taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments where it really explanes this:Sroll down to here.
Division according to different religions
Here are the ones that are civil: even today.
You shall not kill/murder†
You shall not steal††
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
The rest keep us out of trouble and they have to do with belief and faith of what is good.
This is what you are using against Christians to get your point across, and anyone can see that from the basics of these just like us today, they the Hebrews, added to them just as we have, to cover all morality, in the culture of the times which should in theory and what is written become better.
I think it has except the acknowledgment by non-believers.
The basics had more to do with what God wants for us, which is where the most addendums are...that you have a problem with, especially.
Punishment or reward comes from men and God.
Men uphold three of them and God upholds all of them.
But if you are a believer then the basics make perfect sense.
Tricky
Briefly immortal
Lots of tremors in lots of places recently. New York is not mentioned though. Where are you getting your information, Edge?
What the hell did you do here?http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7017692#post7017692
You are the black calling the kettle a pot...
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Freinds of ours who live there.
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
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So again, where are there laws that shows this please.
Paul
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
dafydd
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A hot line to the sky daddy? Certainly not from reality.
Paulhoff
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Tricky
Briefly immortal
Oh, you mean the one back in June? Which was actually a Canadian earthquake? Which did no damage to NY? It's not exactly the kind of "wrath of God" sort of earthquake we've been talking about on this thread, is it?
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
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