The Biblical Realities of Hell

[dafydd]

I said the immoral laws...

Or what we would consider immoral.
Those are possibly some of the original laws that might have already been in place, for many reasons.

Or added to later.
This isn't enough to cancel out all of what we know that is true.

These laws are not for Christians.

Why are they in the bible? When did Christians stop obeying them? Did they ever obey them? Am I acting like a Christian because I ignore everything in the bible?

 

[edge]

Why are they in the bible? When did Christians stop obeying them? Did they ever obey them? Am I acting like a Christian because I ignore everything in the bible?

Because it is historical...history has to also do with culture.

It, the ten originals, are still here who stopped?

 

[Ladewig]

I said the immoral laws...

Or what we would consider immoral.
Those are possibly some of the original laws that might have already been in place, for many reasons.

Or added to later.
This isn't enough to cancel out all of what we know that is true.

These laws are not for Christians.

I should have been more clear. When I said Levitical Law I meant those laws which you condemned in the other thread - virtually everything after the Ten Commandments. All the stuff in dafydd's post qualify both as immoral laws (your words) and Levitical Laws (my words).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Ten Commandments are in Exodus. I, personally, think you would be hard pressed to find a law in the book of Leviticus that you would not classify as immoral and man-made in origin.

In any case, we can narrow the discussion to only the 15 laws cited in the aforementioned post. Is it correct to say that you assert that those 15 laws are the product of the Jewish leaders and are NOT the product of God - they are not now nor have they ever been God's laws in any way at all?

 

[Sun Countess]

Because it is historical...history has to also do with culture.

It, the ten originals, are still here who stopped?

Do you know anybody - aside from a small group of Orthodox Jews - who practice the ten commandments? I don't need a special rule written on stone to keep me from murdering or committing adultery (although it should be noted that adultery is specifically a sin that a man commits by sleeping with somebody else's wife). But how many people do you know who keep the sabbath holy or never ever covet?

 

[devnull]

I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery

Doesnt apply to anyone alive today

Do not have any other gods before me.You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Do I implicitly follow this commandment since I have no gods, and therefore no god before Yahweh?

Does anyone still follow this one? The catholics especially sure like their idols.

Either way, Yahweh is losing it a bit here. Sounds like a spoiled child. You can detect Yahweh's roots as a god of war or somesuch.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name

I mean, really, what does this even mean? How do you misuse a name?

If I accidentally call a friend Yahweh, does that count?

Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

Nobody follows this, except maybe some orthodox jews, and even they find novel ways around this one Also, I like that slaves get a day off - perhaps Yahweh's time would be better spent speaking out against slavery itself, but he's already outed himself as a jealous prick so what's a little slavery...

Also notice the use of "alien resident". So, already, Yahweh is driving a wedge between those who believe his nonsense, and those who might not. There is an implicit incitement here to stop those guys from working. This may or may not count as work itself, however.

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you

Another stupid one. Do I have to honour my parents in all cases? What if they are murderous, adulterous, rapists?

You shall not kill/murder.

Self-evident to all societies, and perhaps to all cooperative species. Any society/species that thought murder was ok would have died out long ago.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

You shall not commit adultery

I dont actually see how Yahweh managed to lump this in with murder,stealing and lying, and left out rape, torture, slavery etc. Adultery would be unpleasant, but not exactly a hanging offense. Also, if he hates teh gay so much, why doesnt he add "Thou shalt not lick the carpet" or similar here?

Yahweh is an odd fellow.

You shall not steal

Thanks again Captain.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

...... what an odd way to term it, but sure. Anyway, find me someone who has never lied, or indeed doesnt lie regularly.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor

Why the hell not? Thought-crime? Seriously dude? If I think my neighbour's ox is especially nice, I might be motivated to work harder and buy my own. Does anyone actually see any problem with this one at all?


The 10 commandments zig-zag between ultra-vapidity and totally obvious. Some of them might have made sense thousands of years ago, but these days they, and Yahweh himself, are completely irrelevant.

 

[dafydd]

That is meaningless. Could you translate it into English for me?

 

[dlorde]

I said the immoral laws...

Or what we would consider immoral.

If our judgement of morality trumps biblical scripture, what do we need the bible for?

Warning: this bible contains material of a violent and sexually explicit nature - ask mummy or daddy if you don't understand.

Note: The morals in this bible are purely for entertainment value and bear no relation to actual morals in use today. Do not try these at home!

By reading this bible, you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of Christianity. All events and characters portrayed may be fictional. The authors can accept no liability for errors.

These laws are not for Christians.

As usual, it's one law for the Christians and another for everyone else

 

[dlorde]

Self-evident to all societies, and perhaps to all cooperative species. Any society/species that thought murder was ok would have died out long ago.

Well, not really, no. Many species, including (especially?) humans, kill others of their own kind that have done them no direct wrong. It is a very popular and successful strategy. Nature red in tooth & claw, etc.

 

[edge]

That is meaningless. Could you translate it into English for me?

You wouldn't understand it in what ever language I translated it into, how about Serbian?

All our laws that are civil are based on those original ten commandments, do you get that?

What country do you live in and I'll translate it for you?

 

[dlorde]

All our laws that are civil are based on those original ten commandments, do you get that?

All of them? are you quite sure?

 

[Foster Zygote]

I said the immoral laws...

Or what we would consider immoral.
Those are possibly some of the original laws that might have already been in place, for many reasons.

Or added to later.
This isn't enough to cancel out all of what we know that is true.

These laws are not for Christians.

Well that's easy then. I'll just ignore anything in the Bible that I find immoral, such as any claims about the existence of Hell.

It's funny that you didn't just say that a while back when we were asking you about genocide. Instead you made some weird excuse about half demons.

 

[edge]

If our judgement of morality trumps biblical scripture, what do we need the bible for?[snipped]Snipped all the bullcrap[/quote
[As usual, it's one law for the Christians and another for everyone else

We need all that because we can see how we have evolved.
We need all that because even today we are still corrupt.
This is the problem most will not, especially the Jews, accept the change that Christianity has brought to us all not just one peoples.
Because the laws aren’t enough and they are and can be corrupted same today as it was back then, because men are in control of their fortune/destiny and there is always some greedy son of a beoch.
One example is tax laws on properties.
Another would be that people that control most of the money are in control of our very governments, through their money.
We are not.

 

[edge]

All of them? are you quite sure?

Based on and no not new ones, like smoking pot, back then it was probably normal.
Any thing based on drugs.
No pills back then.

 

[Foster Zygote]

All our laws that are civil are based on those original ten commandments, do you get that?

This is not true. There is only one passage in the Bible that explicitly mentions ten commandments: Exodus Chapter 34. It lists the actual Ten Commandments in verses 11 - 26. They are as follows:

11 Observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. 13You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles 14(for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God). 15You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice. 16And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods.

17 You shall not make cast idols.

18 You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.

19 All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male* livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. 20The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.

No one shall appear before me empty-handed.

21 For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even in ploughing time and in harvest time you shall rest. 22You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year. 23Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. 24For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

25 You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.

26 The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God.

You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

 

[Sun Countess]

All our laws that are civil are based on those original ten commandments, do you get that?

What country do you live in and I'll translate it for you?

What country do you live in where they have civil laws against coveting your neighbor's property, or building idols, or not observing the sabbath? What country do you live in which requires that you have no gods before Yahweh? Can you be fined for using Yahweh's name in vain? I never know if you're just making it up as you go along, or spouting back what you think some friend said to you that one time at band camp. You clearly aren't thinking about what you post. Otherwise, please give examples of any civil laws which are based on each of the ten commandments.

(Yes, I'm assuming he means the second set of Ten Commandments, after a hissy fit destroyed the first set....kinda like Joseph Smith and the Golden Plates, the second translation didn't come out exactly like the first one in spite of all the supernatural claims....)

 

[edge]

Well that's easy then. I'll just ignore anything in the Bible that I find immoral, such as any claims about the existence of Hell.

It's funny that you didn't just say that a while back when we were asking you about genocide. Instead you made some weird excuse about half demons.

I believe it was the Hebrews excuse to commit genocide, to make God like us, in most instances. They claimed to be gods’ chosen peoples and everyone else were subjugated to their will. Their will was Gods will so then the justifications for concurring other nations, cities, peoples…

Besides all that it might have been a scare tactic to get everyone on the same page so they could concur all of the lands they needed as they absorbed others into their new lands that really weren’t theirs.
Because of disgruntled captors that they had to take in.

The evidence points to a blending of those they said to have killed off.
Those that were absorbed were to fall in line also.

Most of those laws were probably already in place when they were slaves as they would make more sense.
Christ changed all that.

 

[edge]

This is not true. There is only one passage in the Bible that explicitly mentions ten commandments: Exodus Chapter 34. It lists the actual Ten Commandments in verses 11 - 26. They are as follows:

11 Observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. 13You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles 14(for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God). 15You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice. 16And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods.

17 You shall not make cast idols.

18 You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.

19 All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male* livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. 20The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.

No one shall appear before me empty-handed.

21 For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even in ploughing time and in harvest time you shall rest. 22You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year. 23Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. 24For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

25 You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.

26 The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God.

You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

That's the second set, so wrong.
The first set was destroyed then replace and put into the ark then the second set was to be laid along side of the ark as for their nation.
Why you people play ignorant?

 

[Elizabeth I]

We need all that because even today we are still corrupt.

Speak for yourself, please.

This is the problem most will not, especially the Jews, accept the change that Christianity has brought to us all not just one peoples.

"One peoples"? Did they not even teach you the difference between singular and plural, then?

I believe it was the Hebrews excuse to commit genocide, to make God like us, in most instances. They claimed to be gods’ chosen peoples and everyone else were subjugated to their will. Their will was Gods will so then the justifications for concurring other nations, cities, peoples…

Very interesting. Are you anti-semitic then? The Jews are the cause of all the troubles in the world? Yes, I know you say it's bad people, but be honest - you think the Jews corrupted them, don't you?

 

[bikerdruid]

The Biblical Realities of Hell

....'biblical realities'......
isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[Craig4]

People in here who are confused about hell, I think this makes it clear and it is what I have been saying about it.

So when Jesus said this generation shall not pass till you see me coming in the clouds is what is being reported by NDEs.

In Matthew it says: 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Be careful about what you think is total peace and nothingness, what you wish it to be, it doesn't last.


Edge runs and gets his sheild for those firey darts!

It's fine your book says that but you do realize it's all just a fairy story right? I mean, none of it's real.