Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

[Bob001]

I'm not sure about that. The new operator will ask if the subject if is violent/armed. The three possible answers are yes, no or I don't know. If it can be proved the caller lied to the operator, which then results in injury or death, I don't think the code has to be changed radically to hold the caller criminally liable. I wouldn't charge them for a violent crime, of course. But possibly a felony.

Define "violent," for the purpose here. Standing in the street pounding his chest? Turning a garbage can upside down? Hurting himself? Actually assaulting other people? And what would even that mean? Pounding someone with his fist? Or just shoving someone away if they get too close? And what's "armed?" Pointing a gun? Waving a stick? Holding a bottle? I don't think the call can be reduced to a yes/no template, especially if the caller is subject to criminal liability. The operator is going to have to be trained to ask multiple questions and form a reasonable conclusion.

 

[trustbutverify]

Then you could get them on perjuring themselves perhaps? But you would have to prove that the caller knew the subject was armed.

Or had a violent history/ was currently behaving violently. Since the caller wouldn't be under oath, I don't see perjury. Actually, something more serious- some sort of endangerment charge.

 

[lobosrul5]

Or had a violent history/ was currently behaving violently. Since the caller wouldn't be under oath, I don't see perjury. Actually, something more serious- some sort of endangerment charge.

I mean... if you are calling a mental health hotline I suspect they'd want as much info as possible. Obviously if you are calling about a stranger you won't know their history. The most relevant example of a time when I would've called such a number was a few years ago when I saw a woman walking down the middle of the street near where I work, and screaming at the sky. Violent? I don't know, is that violent behavior? Is she packing a knife or gun? I don't know. She could've acted violently in some manner a minute before or a minute after I called.

But as my options were to do nothing, or call Albuquerque PD... I did nothing. Besides the likelihood of them doing something bad to her, I also know from experience, their response times are such that she'd be long gone before they got there anyways.

 

[mgidm86]

Maybe we are at the point where if someone needs an ambulance the caller needs to lie and say they are bleeding out. "Cops are already here send EMTs!"

 

[bruto]

A new emergency number needs to be established for mental health intervention. Of course, if it can be proved the caller knew beforehand the subject was violent/armed, and someone is killed or injured as a result, the caller can be held criminally responsible.

It's happening for mental health at least. 988 is the number. Suicide is the main crisis aimed at, but it's clearly stated that it is for mental health crises up to and including suicidal thoughts. Supposedly it's become nationwide, but I don't know just where and how it's working.

e.t.a. of course I forgot how many here are not from USA. This is a USA thing.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yeah, I tried that. Tried calling for medical for someone who was on my front sidewalk asking for help. They sent police instead.

It worked out OK so far as I know, but I wasn't happy.

911 dispatcher in many jurisdictions have a mandate to send all the first responders to any emergency, regardless of what the caller says. Or maybe that's changed in recent years, I don't know.

When I discovered a dead body in a vacant room of my student coop, I called 911. The first responders to arrive were from the fire department. The cops (who were the ones actually needed in this case) were the last to show up.

 

[erlando]

They will send the police unless the call for an ambulance is from a nursing home or the like.

That doesn't compute at all. Are you saying that 911 per default sends police even if the call is a medical emergency?

As in "Help, I'm having a heart attack" - "Hang in there, the police is on their way"?

 

[ponderingturtle]

That doesn't compute at all. Are you saying that 911 per default sends police even if the call is a medical emergency?

As in "Help, I'm having a heart attack" - "Hang in there, the police is on their way"?

They also send the ambulance. And now often the fire department incase more bodies are needed to move the patient as cops don't help with that.

Every time I responded to a 911 call on an ambulance a cop was there first unless it was at a nursing home.

 

[bruto]

This is one of those things that, if things were done right by those in charge, would probably be a good thing rather than a bad one.

People should be able to call 911 even in a panic or confusion or stress, or half-dead from an unknown attack, and it should be a good thing rather than a bad one if all the emergency services show up as they can, without some bureacratic literalist dispatcher demanding perfect coherence. Cops should be able to render some aid, as fire fighters often do. In many places volunteer fire fighters and rescue squads overlap. If you're collapsed from a heart attack it might be handy for someone to make sure you didn't also set the kitchen on fire....and so forth.

It's pathetic, crazy and tragic that we have to be afraid that the cops might show up.

You thought you needed an ambulance ride? Bang bang, well, your wish just came true.

 

[Thermal]

Sad as it is to say, I don't recall ever seeing police arrive anywhere and had the situation improve. They either arrive too late, or show up to make things worse for all involved, or both. It's nice to see a story where cop actually improves something. It's like reading about someone finding a four leaf clover. Never found one myself.

 

[mgidm86]

911 dispatcher in many jurisdictions have a mandate to send all the first responders to any emergency, regardless of what the caller says. Or maybe that's changed in recent years, I don't know.

When I discovered a dead body in a vacant room of my student coop, I called 911. The first responders to arrive were from the fire department. The cops (who were the ones actually needed in this case) were the last to show up.

Sounds expensive.

 

[trustbutverify]

Sad as it is to say, I don't recall ever seeing police arrive anywhere and had the situation improve. They either arrive too late, or show up to make things worse for all involved, or both. It's nice to see a story where cop actually improves something. It's like reading about someone finding a four leaf clover. Never found one myself.

You've never seen an arrest of a violent felon? I have, and the situation seemed to improve dramatically after the arrest.

 

[bluesjnr]

You've never seen an arrest of a violent felon? I have, and the situation seemed to improve dramatically after the arrest.

Was he/she white?

 

[The Don]

Sounds expensive.

It likely is.

An acquaintance who lives somewhere near Seattle was complaining about how expensive his property taxes were especially the component that paid for the Fire Department who are mandated to attend pretty much any 911 call.

 

[mgidm86]

It likely is.

An acquaintance who lives somewhere near Seattle was complaining about how expensive his property taxes were especially the component that paid for the Fire Department who are mandated to attend pretty much any 911 call.

We sometimes get overreactions, like 6 cop cars coming to stop a fight near my house. They all gotta justify their funding, the cops want overtime pay, private ambulance companies gotta get paid just for showing up.

It's the same in the hospital. If a doctor pokes their head in the door says, "How you feeling?", you're getting billed.

 

[TomB]

There's a certain logic behind sending police/fire to a medical emergency.

Where I live, the ambulances are private. they are owned by the hospitals in the area. I'm not sure to what extent they do patrols, but I'm pretty sure that their coverage is pretty thin.

Fire departments, likewise do not patrol. they stay in their stations, but at least those stations are strategically placed around town.

Police patrol and are likely to be closer to the emergency than ambulance and fire. Not always, of course.

So if the desire is to get someone with at least some level of first aid training on the scene ASAP, it makes sense to dispatch them all. Presuming that the police react as rescuers rather than enforcers.

Last time I called 911, fire arrived first, then police, and finally the ambulance. Police deferred to fire and they all deferred to the ambulance crew when they reached the scene.

That's how it's supposed to work. Not always the case.

 

[trustbutverify]

So if the desire is to get someone with at least some level of first aid training on the scene ASAP, it makes sense to dispatch them all. Presuming that the police react as rescuers rather than enforcers.

And presuming the rescued don't react as attempted murderers.

Assaults and other threats leveled against emergency medical service workers are almost a daily occurrence — skyrocketing 137% from 2018 through last year, according to city data obtained exclusively by The Post.

The staggering numbers come as just last week Staten Island emergency medical technician Richard McMahon was blasted in the shoulder by a drunk patient in the back of an ambulance.

 

[ZiprHead]

Per the article: The Geneva Rescue Squad gave him Ketamine at 9:13 PM... who is the "rescue squad"? Paramedics? I'm thinking some reviews need to be done on what drugs can be forcibly pushed on people to "calm them down" and who can authorize it. Thats not the first story I've heard of first responders shoot someone up with Ketamine and then they died.

I was given Ketamine my last E.D. visit for the intense pain I was in. I was squarely in the center of the exam table but I felt like I was falling off.

I can't imagine taking that crap for fun.

 

[mgidm86]

And presuming the rescued don't react as attempted murderers.

Assaults and other threats leveled against emergency medical service workers are almost a daily occurrence — skyrocketing 137% from 2018 through last year, according to city data obtained exclusively by The Post.

The staggering numbers come as just last week Staten Island emergency medical technician Richard McMahon was blasted in the shoulder by a drunk patient in the back of an ambulance.

Let's look at the "staggering and skyrocketing" numbers instead of percentages:

The number of “workplace violence” incidents involving first responders like McMahon more than doubled from 163 in 2018 to 386 last year — evidence that ambulance crews regularly face life-threatening dangers.

The number of incidents first jumped to 217 in 2019 and then surged to 329 during the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020.

Is that a high number for a city of 8.4 million people? And what exactly are we talking about here?

Logs reviewed by The Post show EMTS and paramedics are routinely punched, kicked, bitten, spit on and threatened by patients brandishing knives and other weapons — many emotionally disturbed or high on drugs.

Is this really such a big deal or is this a news source that wants views? Give me a "staggering" break.

 

[tyr_13]

A former Louisiana sheriff's deputy was sentenced to 100 years for various sex crimes. I saw this a few days ago and read some more on it. I'm not putting it all in spoilers, but it's pretty damn disturbing.

Dennis Perkins, first arrested in 2019 along with his wife Cynthia, pleaded guilty Tuesday to one count of second-degree rape, two counts of sexual battery of a child, one count of video voyeurism, two counts of production of child porn of children under the age of 13, and one count of the mingling of harmful substances. The couple initially faced more than 150 combined charges.*

The plea agreement means prosecutors and the defendant will forgo the trial, guaranteeing that Perkins' young victims will not have to testify about what they went through.*

"Not just for the victims but for the jurors who had to watch it, it would have been very disturbing," prosecutors said outside the court after Perkins' sentencing. "That's why we're so happy that we were able to achieve what we did today without having to go through that."

He helped his teacher wife server cupcakes with semen in them to her class. The videos involved two adults, two children, and a dog. The couple raped a woman after drugging her. This went on for years.

The sheriff he served under was friend who put him on the SWAT team, where he gained the nickname 'E.D.' for 'evil dick', known for his sexual misdeeds. What else do these officers know?

At least he is not able to appeal, and is ineligible for probation or parole.