Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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Americans. They are trained exactly the way the majority of Americans want them to be trained. To use violence as the prime means of dealing with a problem enforcing obedience

This is probabaly more accurate. All to often police use violence where there is no problem that needs solving. The real issue is that police are being trained to demand obedience from the population they are supposed to be serving.
 
Federal prison guards colluded with white supremacist inmates to brutalize anti-racist prisoner, cited the beatings in disciplinary action for "fighting", and have held him in solitary confinement for over 1000 days.

That day in 2018, in prison in Kentucky, the guards warned King that the white supremacists wanted to gravely harm him. They asked him if he felt safe. King chose the answer that he believed would come with fewest repercussions. “Yes, I feel safe,” he said, according to the lawsuit.

“At that point,” the lawsuit claims, the correctional officers told King “he could leave, but directed him to exit through a different door than the one through which he entered.” King walked through the door. “[H]e realized that, rather than being in a hallway or a public space on his way back to his cell, he had entered into an enclosed, locked outdoor area. Inside this room was a prisoner known to be a member of the aforementioned gang.”

The white supremacist — who dwarfed the 5-foot-7, slightly built King — attacked the anti-fascist. The guards did nothing to intervene. King had, he felt, been trapped by correctional officers colluding with white supremacist gang members. Following the reported assault, King received a disciplinary citation for fighting.

King claims the incident was a part of an ongoing pattern of harassment and violence that he has endured in recent years at the hands of the Bureau of Prisons. The Civil Liberties Defense Center, a legal nonprofit organization, filed the civil suit on his behalf, alleging that his “constitutional rights have been continually violated since 2018 in retaliation for his political and anti-racist actions while incarcerated.”

https://theintercept.com/2021/05/28/bop-prison-white-supremacist-anti-fascist
 
This is probabaly more accurate. All to often police use violence where there is no problem that needs solving. The real issue is that police are being trained to demand obedience from the population they are supposed to be serving.

When applied to cops alone I have no problem with your change. However IMO the population of the USA as a whole tends to accept violence as the prime method of dealing with many problems. The acceptance of violence by cops is just one manifestation of that.
 
I think we need to rename the thread "The behaviour of US."

Indeed.

ETA: and a very timely article was just published on CNN -

"July 4th weekend shootings: More than 230 people fatally shot in shootings over the Fourth of July weekend."

And the really shocking part? :

this was "a 26% drop from last year's holiday weekend, according to the latest data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive."
 
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Minneapolis police killed an uninvolved man when they crashed into his car during a high speed pursuit. The man was the uncle of the girl who filmed the murder of George Floyd.

The Minnesota State Patrol is now investigating a crash involving a Minneapolis police squad car, where an innocent man was killed.

It happened around 12:30 a.m. Tuesday at the intersection of 41st Avenue North and Lyndale Avenue. Police say the officer was chasing after a carjacking and robbery suspect at the time. The person police were chasing got away, and a man driving a different car was killed.

Family members tell WCCO that the victim is Leneal Frazier, a father of five who was the uncle of Darnella Frazier, the teenager who recorded the video of George Floyd’s death that was seen around the world.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/07/06/1-killed-in-crash-involving-minneapolis-police-car/

Minneapolis PD is a terror to this community.
 
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Bunch of posts moved to AAH for being off-topic. Didn't seem enough substance to start a new thread but if folk want to repost the derailing posts in a thread in which they will be on topic feel free to do so.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
Off-duty, out of uniform cop chases down car full of teenagers, brandishes gun, shoots one, chases some more, and makes no attempt to arrest them nor provide any aid to the driver he shot.



https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/24/metro/police-investigate-after-off-duty-pawtucket-ri-officer-shoots-teenager/

Officer remains on leave and has not been charged with any crime, nor have any of the three teens been charged with any crime that might explain why this maniac chased them down and opened fire.

Officer charged with multiple felonies for opening fire on car full of teenagers.

According to a state police report filed Thursday in Kent County Superior Court, Dolan told detectives he got off work around 7:40 p.m. Wednesday and drove to a liquor store, where he purchased a six-pack of beer, opened one and “took a sip from the bottle” before continuing to drive home on I-95 South.

off duty cop got liquored up and started chasing a random vehicle and tried to murder the passengers for no clear reason.

https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/blackstone-valley/pawtucket-police-officer-charged-in-shooting-of-teen-in-west-greenwich/
 
One of the discussions we're going to have have some version of sooner or later is the idea of LEO's being LEO's all the time; basically still being cops and/or in the cop mindset after their duties are over.

Basically what degree of power/responsibility/authority an off duty police officer should have is a question we're going to have to put on the table in some form sooner or later.
 
One of the discussions we're going to have have some version of sooner or later is the idea of LEO's being LEO's all the time; basically still being cops and/or in the cop mindset after their duties are over.

Basically what degree of power/responsibility/authority an off duty police officer should have is a question we're going to have to put on the table in some form sooner or later.

We hit that pretty hard on Guyger. If a cop has police powers when off-duty (virtually everywhere), they can't pretend they have not been rigorously trained in proper responses when convenient for them. You can't claim selective amnesia about the treatment of a suspect when it's your personal Miller Time.
 
Yeah but with Guyger it was more a more of a defense, the whole "she reacted X because she was a cop" thing. Her being an off duty cop had nothing to do with her being in the situation. She didn't walk up to the wrong door because she was a cop. It's related and there's overlap, but not exactly what I'm talking about.

We keep having cases of off-duty (or even retired in rarer cases) LEOs still going into situations intentionally and defaulting to "Cop" and these cases don't always go well and I question whether that's a good idea.

Maybe it's better if you do your patrol, you hang up your uniform, you leave your badge and sidearm in your locker at the police station and when you step out the door you're the same JoeAverageCitizen as you, me, or any other Tom, Dick, or Harry. No more or no less responsibility/power/authority. You see something you can call 911 like any of us.
 
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Ok, I'd agree with that in the abstract. Probably right up until someone with trained police powers was needed in an emergency, perhaps to save a life.

Maybe a halfway measure could be made, where off-duty must defer to 911 calling unless grave peril was imminent? Obvious line drawing problem, but it's a start.

Eta: I'd have 'retired' relegated to no powers at all beyond those of any other citizen
 
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This might be a useful line of inquiry, but it's probably important to point out that our would-be killer cop's claim about off-duty law enforcement is almost certainly self-serving nonsense, just like his claim to have opened a bottle for a single "sip" of beer.

The claim that he wanted to stop this car because he thought they were fleeing from police or some crime is simply not credible.
 
Ok, I'd agree with that in the abstract. Probably right up until someone with trained police powers was needed in an emergency, perhaps to save a life.

Maybe a halfway measure could be made, where off-duty must defer to 911 calling unless grave peril was imminent? Obvious line drawing problem, but it's a start.

Eta: I'd have 'retired' relegated to no powers at all beyond those of any other citizen

I don't know exactly how I feel about it either. Not 100% anyway. But as I said it is a discussion we're going to have from some angle at some point in the broader social discourse I think.

I think if you're cop and you encounter a situation outside of your normal duties and you don't inform the broader authorities literarily as soon as it's practically possible, that's a definite no-no.

ETA: Thread moved faster than I figure, added quote for clarity.
 
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This might be a useful line of inquiry, but it's probably important to point out that our would-be killer cop's claim about off-duty law enforcement is almost certainly self-serving nonsense, just like his claim to have opened a bottle for a single "sip" of beer.

The claim that he wanted to stop this car because he thought they were fleeing from police or some crime is simply not credible.

All true, but the fact that was still the defense he defaulted to is telling, and we've had cases more directly in line with what we are talking about as well.

What excuses people default to when put on the spot a useful point of data.
 
In the United Kingdom, the power of a constable is 'in the person' as delegated by the Chief Constable. A constable always holds the power to make an arrest, in that respect is always on duty.
 
In the United Kingdom, the power of a constable is 'in the person' as delegated by the Chief Constable. A constable always holds the power to make an arrest, in that respect is always on duty.
Which is nice, at least partially because they generally don't hold the power to carry a gun.
 
"The last words Michael Chad Breinholt heard were, “You’re about to die, my friend.”

...

With his hands cuffed behind his back, he briefly wrestled with two officers. One screamed that Breinholt was grabbing his holstered gun. Sgt. Tyler Longman rushed into the room, made his declaration and fired.

“He took the time to think about that, to say those words,” Neese said in a recent interview. “And then aim and shoot. And kill Chad.”
...

It was his third."


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/michael-chad-breinholt-west-lake-city-police-shooting-video/
 
Great we've reached the point that cops see themselves as action heroes so much they have to have pre-kill one liners.

I mean "You're about to die, my friend" is no "It's just be revoked" or "Hasta la Vista Baby" but still...
 
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