The Behavior Of US Police Officers - Part 3

[shemp]

Tbh, the psychology of forcing a false confession (in this case totally made up) fascinates me. I mean, the guy knows full and well he didn't kill anyone, yet he comes up with a tale of murdering his own father with scissors because... the cops talked to him and threatened to go John Wick on his pet? I mean, we're not talking about waterboarding or bamboo splints under the fingernails. I'm not sure how tightly wrapped the hommes was here, but a pic was shown where the guy was ripping his own shirt off while the cops sat there looking pretty calm.

And the whole blood at home and human remains scent is not exactly nothing. From the cops POV, they would have looked awfully stupid if they let him go and it turned out that blood and corpse scent was for real.

The cops weren't playing clean, but I do think that they thought they had an actual murderer that they didn't want to see walk away and vanish.

1. The man has mental health issues and takes medication.

Perez became so distraught that he began pulling out his hair, hitting himself, making anguished noises and tearing off his shirt while police encouraged him to confess, according to a summary of the case written by U.S. District Court Judge Dolly Gee.

“He was sleep deprived, mentally ill and significantly undergoing symptoms of withdrawal from his psychiatric medications,” Gee wrote.

Schizophrenic perhaps? I guess mental torture of mentally ill people is SOP for police now?

2. Once again, I bring up the question of what happened to the father. He's been reported missing. Wouldn't it be police SOP to send out searchers in the area? This man could have been hit by a car and bleeding to death by the side of a road. THEY DID NOT ******* LOOK FOR A MAN WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN DYING AND COULD STILL BE SAVED!

3. In a more general sense, do police not realize that if they coerce a confession from an innocent person when there really is a crime, this means that an actual criminal is out there on the loose and might do it again to someone else?

I actually do believe that most police departments would have handled this much better. Unfortunately, this poor guy was in the hands of graduates of the Barney Fife Detective School. The public deserves better from those we hire to serve and protect. The cops involved here are both idiots and ********.

 

[Thermal]

1. The man has mental health issues and takes medication.



Schizophrenic perhaps? I guess mental torture of mentally ill people is SOP for police now?

2. Once again, I bring up the question of what happened to the father. He's been reported missing. Wouldn't it be police SOP to send out searchers in the area? This man could have been hit by a car and bleeding to death by the side of a road. THEY DID NOT ******* LOOK FOR A MAN WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN DYING AND COULD STILL BE SAVED!

3. In a more general sense, do police not realize that if they coerce a confession from an innocent person when there really is a crime, this means that an actual criminal is out there on the loose and might do it again to someone else?

I actually do believe that most police departments would have handled this much better. Unfortunately, this poor guy was in the hands of graduates of the Barney Fife Detective School. The public deserves better from those we hire to serve and protect. The cops involved here are both idiots and ********.

Oh, don't get me wrong, these cops were the Dildo Kings. But I'm thinking focus wise, the main problem was that they were handling a mentally ill brother all wrong. That's a different failing, but one that should be adressed. Perez also said "he didn't remember" killing anyone, which would be 99 red flags to an investigating cop on its own. The father was literally missing for minutes when Perez called it in; that the police reacted at all is kind of surprising. Don't they require an adult to be missing for 24 hours before de laying them a missing person?

If this guy needed serious care, what was up with the father running a disappearing act to hook up with a babe, with no cel phone or wallet?

While it's tempting to see Evil Cops all over this one, I feel like it's more like Painfully Stupid cops, trying their luck with a mentally ill guy who they had at least some reason to suspect was actually guilty. If a cadaver dog signaled a hit but no body was around, and the guy who called it in said he was there and alone but "didnt remember killing anyone", my antenna would be at full mast, too.

 

[smartcooky]

Tbh, the psychology of forcing a false confession (in this case totally made up) fascinates me. I mean, the guy knows full and well he didn't kill anyone, yet he comes up with a tale of murdering his own father with scissors because... the cops talked to him and threatened to go John Wick on his pet? I mean, we're not talking about waterboarding or bamboo splints under the fingernails. I'm not sure how tightly wrapped the hommes was here, but a pic was shown where the guy was ripping his own shirt off while the cops sat there looking pretty calm.

And the whole blood at home and human remains scent is not exactly nothing. From the cops POV, they would have looked awfully stupid if they let him go and it turned out that blood and corpse scent was for real.

The cops weren't playing clean, but I do think that they thought they had an actual murderer that they didn't want to see walk away and vanish.

Ever heard of the The Central Park Five?

The fact is that false confessions do happen, and for a variety of reasons, such as intimidation, coercion, force, isolation and lying about evidence. Also, the suspect could be subject to increased stress and/or mental exhaustion, as well as things like offers of a lenient sentence, or a lack of knowledge or understanding of their legal and/or constitutional rights.

There have been 3467 exonerations in the USA since 1989. 12% of them (416) have involved a false confession. That is a lot of people railroaded in Police interrogations

 

[Darat]

It is strange from a UK perspective to see how often the USA’s “right to silence” and a “right to an attorney” is circumvented or ignored by police in interviews and how informally police interviews are conducted even when being recorded. If you hear and/or see any modern i.e. from the past 30 years police interviews in the UK 90% of the time it will be a question from the police, with the accused answering “no comment” with of course their solicitor sat next to them and that is it. It moves from strange to outright shocking to see and hear the USA police doing a “good cop, bad cop” routine and then becomes jaw dropping to hear the police lying to the person being interviewed.

 

[Donal]

Ever heard of the The Central Park Five?

The fact is that false confessions do happen, and for a variety of reasons, such as intimidation, coercion, force, isolation and lying about evidence. Also, the suspect could be subject to increased stress and/or mental exhaustion, as well as things like offers of a lenient sentence, or a lack of knowledge or understanding of their legal and/or constitutional rights.

There have been 3467 exonerations in the USA since 1989. 12% of them (416) have involved a false confession. That is a lot of people railroaded in Police interrogations

It should also be noted that it is extemely difficult to get a judge to even hear a case like that. They are not looking to undermine their colleagues and the very system they built their lives around. There are even cases where a confession was coerced from an intellectually challenged minor but that wasn't enough to overturn a verdict or plea.

 

[Kestrel]

Ever heard of the The Central Park Five?

The fact is that false confessions do happen, and for a variety of reasons, such as intimidation, coercion, force, isolation and lying about evidence. Also, the suspect could be subject to increased stress and/or mental exhaustion, as well as things like offers of a lenient sentence, or a lack of knowledge or understanding of their legal and/or constitutional rights.

There have been 3467 exonerations in the USA since 1989. 12% of them (416) have involved a false confession. That is a lot of people railroaded in Police interrogations

The Norfolk Four^WP case is even stranger. A suspect confessed to rape and murder after an all night long interrogation. When the DNA results didn't match the suspect was interrogated again to find his accomplice. This process was repeated multiple times and four suspects were convicted. None of them matched the DNA sample taken from the victim.

It took years for these four innocent men to be exonerated.

 

[Thermal]

Ever heard of the The Central Park Five?

...yes, yes I have. Took place about an hour up the road from me when it started, and was local news in the pre-www days, so likely I'd heard of it years before you.

The fact is that false confessions do happen...

...yes, yes they do. I'm pretty sure we all know that. My statement that I am fascinated with the psychology of them kind of makes it clear that it's not really a question that they happen.

...and for a variety of reasons, such as intimidation, coercion, force, isolation and lying about evidence. Also, the suspect could be subject to increased stress and/or mental exhaustion, as well as things like offers of a lenient sentence, or a lack of knowledge or understanding of their legal and/or constitutional rights.

There have been 3467 exonerations in the USA since 1989. 12% of them (416) have involved a false confession. That is a lot of people railroaded in Police interrogations

Yes. Yes it is. I don't see how that has remotely to do with anything I posted, but...thanks?

 

[lobosrul5]

Ever heard of the The Central Park Five?

The fact is that false confessions do happen, and for a variety of reasons, such as intimidation, coercion, force, isolation and lying about evidence. Also, the suspect could be subject to increased stress and/or mental exhaustion, as well as things like offers of a lenient sentence, or a lack of knowledge or understanding of their legal and/or constitutional rights.

There have been 3467 exonerations in the USA since 1989. 12% of them (416) have involved a false confession. That is a lot of people railroaded in Police interrogations

That case and similar ones are a bit different. Thats more like... hey wanna spend basically the REST OF YOUR LIFE in jail? Or give us some names, and maybe it'll just be like 20 years.

 

[Thermal]

That case and similar ones are a bit different. Thats more like... hey wanna spend basically the REST OF YOUR LIFE in jail? Or give us some names, and maybe it'll just be like 20 years.

Yeah, with the CP5, the guys were already cold busted for multiple assaults that night. They might have had it framed as "you'll end up doing less time if you cop to this because we need some bodies to parade in front of the press", which becomes more like a business decision to spend the least amount of days in the cage. Of course, it didn't work out that way and they went down hard despite the assurances.

 

[Donal]

It's the same thing. They claim to have enough evidence to put yo uaway for life, but you can shorten that by confessing. At first, you are in control of yorus enses and know they are BSing. Maybe you don't even process what they are saying because it is so out there.

But, after a few hours, it gets into your ehad that maybe they are right. Maybe you had some kidn of breakdown and don't realize it. Cops don't make mistakes, right?

 

[smartcooky]

Yes. Yes it is. I don't see how that has remotely to do with anything I posted, but...thanks?

Well, your post gave me the impression that you were dubious about false confessions...

- Tbh, the psychology of forcing a false confession (in this case totally made up) fascinates me. I mean, the guy knows full and well he didn't kill anyone, yet he comes up with a tale of murdering his own father with scissors because... the cops talked to him and threatened to go John Wick on his pet?​

 

[Random]

Well, your post gave me the impression that you were dubious about false confessions...

- Tbh, the psychology of forcing a false confession (in this case totally made up) fascinates me. I mean, the guy knows full and well he didn't kill anyone, yet he comes up with a tale of murdering his own father with scissors because... the cops talked to him and threatened to go John Wick on his pet?​

Well, in this case it is clear that the victim was dealing with a variety of psychological issues, so the police might have very well been able to convince him he committed the murder. If you have been struggling with schizophrenia for many years and some police officers are telling you that you killed someone, you might believe it.

In other cases, people who have given false confessions who have not been convinced of their guilt have said that they believed that the police had enough evidence to convict and that confessing could get them preferential treatment or they just wanted to get out of the interrogation and thought they could give a false confession and fix it later. In those cases, the people don't realize that cops lie, and that the confession is the only evidence the cops need.

 

[lobosrul5]

Well, in this case it is clear that the victim was dealing with a variety of psychological issues, so the police might have very well been able to convince him he committed the murder. If you have been struggling with schizophrenia for many years and some police officers are telling you that you killed someone, you might believe it.

In other cases, people who have given false confessions who have not been convinced of their guilt have said that they believed that the police had enough evidence to convict and that confessing could get them preferential treatment or they just wanted to get out of the interrogation and thought they could give a false confession and fix it later. In those cases, the people don't realize that cops lie, and that the confession is the only evidence the cops need.

Jessie Misskelley of the West Memphis 3 fits into a bit of both categories I think.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It is sickening that the guy has to settle even knowing that a jury would absolutely give him a substantially higher payout because of the threat that a higher court might throw out any and all damages whatsoever by invoking "qualified immunity".

The concept of qualified immunity as it was invented and has been used by the courts needs to be strangled while also drowning and simultaneously dying in a fire.

Qualified immunity wouldn't protect the department, they are still liable for the wrongs committed by the officers, it is that he could not get a pay out from the officers involved because they did nothing wrong enough to know it is wrong.

 

[lobosrul5]

Qualified immunity wouldn't protect the department, they are still liable for the wrongs committed by the officers, it is that he could not get a pay out from the officers involved because they did nothing wrong enough to know it is wrong.

Its very rare that settlements/court judgements are taken from the police department. It almost always just hits the jurisdictions general fund.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Its very rare that settlements/court judgements are taken from the police department. It almost always just hits the jurisdictions general fund.

That does not support the idea that qualified immunity would prevent the victim from getting compensation. That is just working its way up the employee employer chain to the top.

 

[lobosrul5]

That does not support the idea that qualified immunity would prevent the victim from getting compensation. That is just working its way up the employee employer chain to the top.

You stated: "Qualified immunity wouldn't protect the department,". Which is a true statement, it protects the officers. HOWEVER, the department itself is still very rarely punished in any way for the wrongdoing of its officers. Most localities, for political reasons, prioritize funding of the police. So, its not them that suffers from civil lawsuit payouts.

I never said it prevents the victim from getting compensated. It does, however, make the residents of the area who payout the settlement thru sales and property taxes into minor victims. We've had some doozies of lawsuits for police misconduct here. A million here and there adds up in a midsize city. Thats 20 teachers annual pay.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You stated: "Qualified immunity wouldn't protect the department,". Which is a true statement, it protects the officers. HOWEVER, the department itself is still very rarely punished in any way for the wrongdoing of its officers. Most localities, for political reasons, prioritize funding of the police. So, its not them that suffers from civil lawsuit payouts.

I never said it prevents the victim from getting compensated.

But if you read the post I was replying to, Checkmite did claim that. The department is liable. They might not be where the money comes from but their are liable.

 

[lobosrul5]

But if you read the post I was replying to, Checkmite did claim that. The department is liable. They might not be where the money comes from but their are liable.

Hmm, your definition of liable differs from mine. But, I do see where you are coming from. QI has nothing to do with getting compensation from the department.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Hmm, your definition of liable differs from mine. But, I do see where you are coming from. QI has nothing to do with getting compensation from the department.

The town always has the option of taking it from the police budget, that they never do is politics not law.

Now I want to see him owning the police station and all its physical assets because the town won't pay.