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The Behavior Of US Police Officers - Part 3

shemp said:
Just a reminder that it was 39 years ago today that the Philadelphia Police Department made the idiotic and indefensible decision to drop bombs onto the roof of a house occupied by MOVE, a Black liberation organization. The police had arrest warrants for four of the people in the house, but couldn't get in to arrest them, so they had the "brilliant" idea of dropping two bombs on the roof. This caused a fire that killed 11 of the 13 people in the house, and also destroyed 61 surrounding homes, leaving 250 people homeless. Fortunately, the police had evacuated those homes, but it was 20 years before the people who lived in those homes received compensation for damages.
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From InrangeTV

On May 13, 1985, in a grave escalation of conflict, Philadelphia police, under the direction of city officials, conducted a militarized raid on the MOVE organization. Despite the presence of children, police cut off water and electricity to force compliance, then delivered an ultimatum that was met with silence. A standoff ensued, with police launching tear gas and MOVE members reportedly returning fire.
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The police response was disproportionate, involving a staggering 10,000 rounds of ammunition against the occupants. Then, in a decision that is still regarded as a gross misuse of police power, Police Commissioner Sambor sanctioned the dropping of two bombs onto the MOVE house. The subsequent explosion and fire, exacerbated by a gasoline generator, were not immediately fought by firefighters due to ongoing gunfire.
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Authorities' choice to let the fire burn—a tactic ostensibly aimed at neutralizing a rooftop bunker—resulted in a catastrophic inferno that not only consumed the MOVE house but also devastated the surrounding community. In the chaos, only two MOVE members escaped. 6 adults and 5 children were killed. The police were also criticized for allegedly shooting at those trying to flee the burning building.
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The aftermath was a neighborhood in ashes, with 61 homes destroyed and 250 people homeless—a stark testament to the heavy-handedness of the police action. Critics point to this incident as a profound failure of law enforcement, marked by excessive use of force and a disregard for the safety and rights of both the MOVE members and the neighboring community.
 
shemp said:
Just a reminder that it was 39 years ago today that the Philadelphia Police Department made the idiotic and indefensible decision to drop bombs onto the roof of a house occupied by MOVE, a Black liberation organization. The police had arrest warrants for four of the people in the house, but couldn't get in to arrest them, so they had the "brilliant" idea of dropping two bombs on the roof. This caused a fire that killed 11 of the 13 people in the house, and also destroyed 61 surrounding homes, leaving 250 people homeless. Fortunately, the police had evacuated those homes, but it was 20 years before the people who lived in those homes received compensation for damages.
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Oops, wrong thread. You know how it is, U.K., U.S., it's all Greek to me.
 
Andy_Ross said:
From InrangeTV

On May 13, 1985, in a grave escalation of conflict, Philadelphia police, under the direction of city officials, conducted a militarized raid on the MOVE organization. Despite the presence of children, police cut off water and electricity to force compliance, then delivered an ultimatum that was met with silence. A standoff ensued, with police launching tear gas and MOVE members reportedly returning fire.
-
The police response was disproportionate, involving a staggering 10,000 rounds of ammunition against the occupants. Then, in a decision that is still regarded as a gross misuse of police power, Police Commissioner Sambor sanctioned the dropping of two bombs onto the MOVE house. The subsequent explosion and fire, exacerbated by a gasoline generator, were not immediately fought by firefighters due to ongoing gunfire.
-
Authorities' choice to let the fire burn—a tactic ostensibly aimed at neutralizing a rooftop bunker—resulted in a catastrophic inferno that not only consumed the MOVE house but also devastated the surrounding community. In the chaos, only two MOVE members escaped. 6 adults and 5 children were killed. The police were also criticized for allegedly shooting at those trying to flee the burning building.
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The aftermath was a neighborhood in ashes, with 61 homes destroyed and 250 people homeless—a stark testament to the heavy-handedness of the police action. Critics point to this incident as a profound failure of law enforcement, marked by excessive use of force and a disregard for the safety and rights of both the MOVE members and the neighboring community.
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It was either Well There's Your Problem or Lions Led By Donkeys that did a deep dive on that. The city claimed the police were using concussion bombs, but some veterans with demolitions experience said they were shaped charges. Granted, said veterans were watching it go down on TV.
 
A police force using any type of bomb against its citizens would seem to me to be the issue, arguing the type of bomb is rather missing the point!
 
Darat said:
A police force using any type of bomb against its citizens would seem to me to be the issue, arguing the type of bomb is rather missing the point!
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Yes, I have previously said that as far as I can tell, RoboCop is Les a biting satire on ultra violence and corporate takeover of life and more an affectionate portrayal of UD policing (given that the officers on the beat were trying their best)
 
Darat said:
A police force using any type of bomb against its citizens would seem to me to be the issue, arguing the type of bomb is rather missing the point!
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That was part of their point, too. Like, even if they were telling the truth, why are they dropping ordinance on a residential neighborhood? Better yet, why does a municipal agency have such ordinance?
 
Donal said:
That was part of their point, too. Like, even if they were telling the truth, why are they dropping ordinance on a residential neighborhood? Better yet, why does a municipal agency have such ordinance?
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Well, some laws are necessary, but you won't get much of an effect dropping them on a house.

Ordnance, on the other hand...
 
This is just absolutely ******* unbelievable. You couldn't make it up.

Fontana pays nearly $900,000 for ‘psychological torture’ inflicted by police to get false confession

Within hours after Thomas Perez Jr. called police to report his father missing, he found himself in a tiny interrogation room confronted by Fontana detectives determined to extract a confession that he killed his dad.

Perez had told police that his father, 71-year-old Thomas Perez Sr., went out for a walk with the family dog at about 10 p.m. on Aug. 7, 2018. The dog returned within minutes without Perez’s father. Investigators didn’t believe his story, and over the next 17 hours they grilled him to try to get to the “truth.”

According to court records, detectives told Perez that his father was dead, that they had recovered his body and it now “wore a toe tag at the morgue.” They said they had evidence that Perez killed his father and that he should just admit it, records show.

Perez insisted he didn’t remember killing anyone, but detectives allegedly told him that the human mind often tries to suppress troubling memories.

At one point during the interrogation, the investigators even threatened to have his pet Labrador Retriever, Margosha, euthanized as a stray, and brought the dog into the room so he could say goodbye. “OK? Your dog’s now gone, forget about it,” said an investigator.

“How can you sit there, how can you sit there and say you don’t know what happened, and your dog is sitting there looking at you, knowing that you killed your dad?” a detective said. “Look at your dog. She knows, because she was walking through all the blood.”

Finally, after curling up with the dog on the floor, Perez broke down and confessed. He said he had stabbed his father multiple times with a pair of scissors during an altercation in which his father hit Perez over the head with a beer bottle.

Suicide attempt

He was so distraught that he even tried to hang himself with the drawstring from his shorts after being left alone in the interrogation room. Perez was arrested, handcuffed and transported to a mental hospital for 72-hour observation.

But later that day, the truth derailed the detectives’ theory and their prized confession.

Perez’s father wasn’t dead — or even missing. Thomas Sr. was at Los Angeles International Airport waiting for a flight to see his daughter in Northern California. But police didn’t immediately tell Perez.
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Perez’s nightmare ended shortly after police got a phone call from his sister, who said their father was alive and well. He had actually walked to the train station in Fontana and rode the line to Los Angeles County to visit a relative and then took a bus to visit a female friend, Steering said. Perez Sr. later went to the airport to await a flight to Oakland to visit his daughter.

Police picked up the father at the airport and brought him to the Fontana station.

But the investigation didn’t stop there. Detectives obtained a warrant to again search Perez’s house for evidence that he had assaulted an “unknown victim,” according to Gee’s summary.

It appears none was found.

Perez was not released until after the end of the three-day psychological observation period. He then retrieved his dog from Riverside County Animal Services, tracking her down through an implanted chip, Steering said.
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So even after all of this ********, they didn't even tell him where the dog was, he had to find it himself.

And, of course, the officers involved are still employed with the department.

And another thing: Even though he reported his father missing, THEY MADE NO ******* EFFORT TO TRY TO FIND HIM! He could have been lying on the ground injured and needing help, but for 17 ******* hours THEY MADE NO ******* EFFORT TO TRY TO FIND HIM!

You know, I've had a couple of interactions with the police in my town (once they came to my door because they noticed I'd left my car headlights on, another when I made a police report about a possible door-to-door scam), and they were very nice and helpful. I can't even imagine my local police doing something this vile and crazy.
 
shemp said:
This is just absolutely ******* unbelievable. You couldn't make it up.

Fontana pays nearly $900,000 for ‘psychological torture’ inflicted by police to get false confession





So even after all of this ********, they didn't even tell him where the dog was, he had to find it himself.

And, of course, the officers involved are still employed with the department.

And another thing: Even though he reported his father missing, THEY MADE NO ******* EFFORT TO TRY TO FIND HIM! He could have been lying on the ground injured and needing help, but for 17 ******* hours THEY MADE NO ******* EFFORT TO TRY TO FIND HIM!

You know, I've had a couple of interactions with the police in my town (once they came to my door because they noticed I'd left my car headlights on, another when I made a police report about a possible door-to-door scam), and they were very nice and helpful. I can't even imagine my local police doing something this vile and crazy.
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So... any of these ********* going to serve time? Torture is a pretty serious crime I think.
 
It is sickening that the guy has to settle even knowing that a jury would absolutely give him a substantially higher payout because of the threat that a higher court might throw out any and all damages whatsoever by invoking "qualified immunity".

The concept of qualified immunity as it was invented and has been used by the courts needs to be strangled while also drowning and simultaneously dying in a fire.
 
First, they noted he seemed “distracted” and “unconcerned” during the 911 call, according to court records.
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this is another thing that needs to go away. Enough with the "cop science". Some former high school quarterback trying to relive his glory days is not an expert on facial tells, voice analysis, body language analysis, or whatever other modern-day phrenology these chuds are using to justify their trampling all over people's rights.
 
Donal said:
this is another thing that needs to go away. Enough with the "cop science". Some former high school quarterback trying to relive his glory days is not an expert on facial tells, voice analysis, body language analysis, or whatever other modern-day phrenology these chuds are using to justify their trampling all over people's rights.
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I've noticed the same across the board with cops. They think they are Masters of reading people, but they invariably misinterpret the Tell.

The police who screwed with this guy, in fairness, did recover the father's wallet and cel phone at the guys home, as well as blood stains and a cadaver dog indicating human remains. So... at leat it's not like they made it up out of the blue. Stupid though they were, they thought they had them a murderer, or at least a guy who had some 'splaining to do but appeared to be making up stories himself. "Blood? What blood? I didn't see no blood".
 
Donal said:
this is another thing that needs to go away. Enough with the "cop science". Some former high school quarterback trying to relive his glory days is not an expert on facial tells, voice analysis, body language analysis, or whatever other modern-day phrenology these chuds are using to justify their trampling all over people's rights.
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That nonsense cracks me up every time. Whenever you watch a "true crime" show, there's always some cop talking about "when you've done the job as long as I have, you learn to read people." What makes me think that you thought you were an expert on reading people on day one? It's just an exercise in confirmation bias. Everything means something, and in retrospect, they only remember the tells that supported their preconceived conclusions.

ETA: I especially love "he acted nervous and evasive." Oh really? The guy you interrogated for five hours in a tiny room acted nervous? You must be a genius to have picked up on that.

Then another person will read them entirely differently, yet come to the same conclusions. "If they're nervous, they're probably guilty. If they're too calm and relaxed, they're probably guilty. If they sip their coffee too long, they're probably guilty."
 
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It also helps that they can just browbeat people into a false confession ton confirm their "analysis". They even tried to get Perez on a murder after his father showed up because they knew he killed somebody. Irrespective of if they have an actual victim. They just know it in their guts, damnit!
 
Thermal said:
I've noticed the same across the board with cops. They think they are Masters of reading people, but they invariably misinterpret the Tell.

The police who screwed with this guy, in fairness, did recover the father's wallet and cel phone at the guys home, as well as blood stains and a cadaver dog indicating human remains. So... at leat it's not like they made it up out of the blue. Stupid though they were, they thought they had them a murderer, or at least a guy who had some 'splaining to do but appeared to be making up stories himself. "Blood? What blood? I didn't see no blood".
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Did the police act "in fairness"? Of course not. How many innocent people are in prison because cops coerced a confession out of someone who wasn't strong enough to stand up to them?
 
shemp said:
Did the police act "in fairness"? Of course not. How many innocent people are in prison because cops coerced a confession out of someone who wasn't strong enough to stand up to them?
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Tbh, the psychology of forcing a false confession (in this case totally made up) fascinates me. I mean, the guy knows full and well he didn't kill anyone, yet he comes up with a tale of murdering his own father with scissors because... the cops talked to him and threatened to go John Wick on his pet? I mean, we're not talking about waterboarding or bamboo splints under the fingernails. I'm not sure how tightly wrapped the hommes was here, but a pic was shown where the guy was ripping his own shirt off while the cops sat there looking pretty calm.

And the whole blood at home and human remains scent is not exactly nothing. From the cops POV, they would have looked awfully stupid if they let him go and it turned out that blood and corpse scent was for real.

The cops weren't playing clean, but I do think that they thought they had an actual murderer that they didn't want to see walk away and vanish.
 
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