The 9/11 Truther Credo

[maccy]

Yeah but Europe's nations already have their own independant countries... it doesn't make sense to me.

If your a member of the EU you have to pay to fund it and are subject to laws that it passes (although your government can veto them). This isn't popular with some nationalists who want all power to reside at nation state level. The EU also allows the free movement of peoples between states - which extremely unpopular with the extreme-right nationalists. In the UK, we have what you might call mild nationalist (ie not overtly racist) anti-EU party The UK Independence Party. Pagan's brand of Nationalism (fascism, really) is better represented by the British National Party or, in France, by Le Front National. As well as being anti-EU these parties seek to achieve mono-ethnic nations by stopping immigration and deporting immigrants. That is what they define as Nationalism.

Interestingly, the nationalist parties seeking independence from the UK for Wales (Plaid Cymru) and Scotland (The Scottish National Party) support the idea of their newly independent nations being part of the EU. Similarly the parties who want North Ireland to be part of a united Ireland (Sinn Fein and the SDLP) are nationalists in favour of reuniting a country that is already part of the EU. I doubt that Pagan would associate himself with these parties very much.

 

[Orphia Nay]

The pagan mini-Credo:

Ask questions.

Ignore answers.

Fight strawmen valiantly. State that 9/11 was not caused by “Arabs in caves”. Accuse your opponents of being George Bush-lovers, and dismiss their evidence accordingly. Illogically claim, "Bush told lies, so he is lying about 911". "If you don't think the US government carried out the WTC attacks, you are defending Bush. Bush is evil. Therefore you are evil."

Use myths to support the myth:
"The Holocaust did not happen so 9/11 was an inside job."
"The hijackers were cokeheads and Osama was mortally ill therefore the US gubmint orchestrated 9/11".

Accuse your opponent of being a liar, or try some other tactic that will (hopefully) make him angry. If he responds in kind to your endless taunts, change the subject to his anger, and accuse him of name calling. If he accuses you of provoking him, then you have changed the subject of the debate. If he stays on topic, keep the heat up. The Believers in the audience will forgive the worst verbal attacks you use, but they will think even the mildest replies he makes to you are personal attacks that undermine his argument.

Smoke weed copiously, or act like you do. You can never have enough paranoia and crazy thoughts.

Derail. When others are discussing a topic, introduce a 9/11 twoof-based question. When someone replies with a quick debunk, make a long post uploading all your brain’s delusions. If they ignore you, keep derailing. If they address your delusions, ignore them.

 

[pagan]

The pagan mini-Credo:

Ask questions.

Ignore answers.

Fight strawmen valiantly. State that 9/11 was not caused by “Arabs in caves”. Accuse your opponents of being George Bush-lovers, and dismiss their evidence accordingly. Illogically claim, "Bush told lies, so he is lying about 911". "If you don't think the US government carried out the WTC attacks, you are defending Bush. Bush is evil. Therefore you are evil."

Use myths to support the myth:
"The Holocaust did not happen so 9/11 was an inside job."
"The hijackers were cokeheads and Osama was mortally ill therefore the US gubmint orchestrated 9/11".

Accuse your opponent of being a liar, or try some other tactic that will (hopefully) make him angry. If he responds in kind to your endless taunts, change the subject to his anger, and accuse him of name calling. If he accuses you of provoking him, then you have changed the subject of the debate. If he stays on topic, keep the heat up. The Believers in the audience will forgive the worst verbal attacks you use, but they will think even the mildest replies he makes to you are personal attacks that undermine his argument.

Smoke weed copiously, or act like you do. You can never have enough paranoia and crazy thoughts.

Derail. When others are discussing a topic, introduce a 9/11 twoof-based question. When someone replies with a quick debunk, make a long post uploading all your brain’s delusions. If they ignore you, keep derailing. If they address your delusions, ignore them.

Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

 

[brodski]

If your a member of the EU you have to pay to fund it and are subject to laws that it passes (although your government can veto them).

not quite, you are not subject to EU directives until your government implements them in domestic legislation. If the government fails to do this they may be fined however.

This isn't popular with some nationalists who want all power to reside at nation state level. The EU also allows the free movement of peoples between states - which extremely unpopular with the extreme-right nationalists. In the UK, we have what you might call mild nationalist (ie not overtly racist) anti-EU party The UK Independence Party.

not (overtly) racist, but nutty as hell, and prone to CTs- remember their alleged MI5 infiltration?

 

[Architect]

I must admit that I find it amusing that the Labour and Conservative parties like to compare the SNP and Plaid Cymru to "nationalist" groups such as the the Serbs or the neo-nazis, when in actual fact both ar emore pro-European and pro-immigration than they are.

Incidentally, and just to add my voice to previous posts. Anyone who believes that David Irving is a hero is an absolute fool; his work has been discredited by real academics, he has been proven a liar in court, and in his post-parole statements his true racist colours have become even clearer.

 

[uk_dave]

Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

And you're having about as much success with that as you would trying to find your own arse with both hands and a torch.

 

[twinstead]

T
I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

The problem is that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the...well, if it bit you. You are so wrapped up in your ideological issues to even have a chance of finding truth, no less so than the worst blind supporter of Bush.

In fact, you and the worst redneck American small town Bush supporter have MUCH more in common than you could possibly ever imagine.

Objectivity. What a concept.

 

[tsig]

Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

No this is our defensive manual, we have a totally different stratagy for offense but that is listed in the Black Thread seen only by the the Elite Ninjas above the 33rd degree.

If you find the truth will you believe it?

Looking for truth while lieing seems an odd strategy.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

If you want to prove you're not a troll, start a topic.

If you want an honest, truth-seeking debate, start a topic. Here - I'll help you out:


Hello, my name is pagan. I joined this forum because I am interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories and I am skeptical of the "official version of events".

I learned about the "official version" by _____________________ [insert details as appropriate, such as "reading the NIST/FEMA/9/11 Commission Reports; reading prisonplanet.com; watching "Loose Change"; etc etc"].

The evidence that I have seen does not seem to add up to the story that says that 19 hijackers brought the world's most powerful country to its knees.

I am testing the theory that ______________________.

The strongest evidence towards this theory, in my opinion, is:

A) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
B) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
C) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
etc.
[fill in the blanks with your choices, pagan.]

I wish to find out the truth, and if this evidence can be proved to be false or irrelevant, I will understand that I have been mistaken in thinking my theory and/or sources were correct.

Sincerely,
pagan.

 

[beachnut]

Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.

Name one truther with a truth to be told? NO, all truthers are dolts who make up lies and ask question and most ironically want the government to repeat what they do not believe in the first place; and in addition they claim to have experts who insist!

Then take the experts, who are the biggest nut cases, and investigate yourself and figure it out!!! The funny thing is flight 93 passengers only had minutes to figure out 9/11 and they succeeded and stopped the terrorist! The truthers have had 5 years and they can not find their way out of paper sack or come up with enough facts to find a conclusion anyone with a brain can believe. Facts.

I have found 100 pecent lies from the 9/11 truthers. Anyone have a truth from a truther?

 

[pagan]

If you want to prove you're not a troll, start a topic.

If you want an honest, truth-seeking debate, start a topic. Here - I'll help you out:


Hello, my name is pagan. I joined this forum because I am interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories and I am skeptical of the "official version of events".

I learned about the "official version" by _____________________ [insert details as appropriate, such as "reading the NIST/FEMA/9/11 Commission Reports; reading prisonplanet.com; watching "Loose Change"; etc etc"].

The evidence that I have seen does not seem to add up to the story that says that 19 hijackers brought the world's most powerful country to its knees.

I am testing the theory that ______________________.

The strongest evidence towards this theory, in my opinion, is:

A) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
B) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
C) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
etc.
[fill in the blanks with your choices, pagan.]

I wish to find out the truth, and if this evidence can be proved to be false or irrelevant, I will understand that I have been mistaken in thinking my theory and/or sources were correct.

Sincerely,
pagan.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Is this an exemple of what you Americans call "to be railroaded"?

To engage myself in such an ambitious way is to ask for too much. This would be to cover the whole spectrum of issues in one thread and to get myself attacked by the rest of you about the tinyest little details.

But, sure I will probably start a few threads in the future about some aspects of the 9-11 issue. Most of them already covered on this forum. For exemple:

The mysterious collaps of WTC7
The NORAD standdown.
Controlled demolition of the towers.
The put options.
The alledged hijackers.
PNAC and the neocons.

And the result of it all, the attack on civil liberties, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and possily the whole Arab world.

 

[Anti-sophist]

You should pick a single item that you consider most flagarant and start a topic about it and see how it goes.

I can assure you that all of those issues have been heavily debunked and any rational person when viewing all the evidence will see. I'd suggest searching the forums because they've been dealt with in pretty big details already.

For example, the put-options was investigated by the SEC, and the causes of both stock movements is already known. You should be aware of these facts and be able to add something beyond this.

 

[beachnut]

Thanks, but no thanks.

Is this an exemple of what you Americans call "to be railroaded"?

To engage myself in such an ambitious way is to ask for too much. This would be to cover the whole spectrum of issues in one thread and to get myself attacked by the rest of you about the tinyest little details.

But, sure I will probably start a few threads in the future about some aspects of the 9-11 issue. Most of them already covered on this forum. For exemple:

The mysterious collaps of WTC7
The NORAD standdown.
Controlled demolition of the towers.
The put options.
The alledged hijackers.
PNAC and the neocons.

And the result of it all, the attack on civil liberties, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and possily the whole Arab world.

Fire makes building fail; known fact!
NORAD did not stand down, I was in the Air Force at the time; you be wrong!
No evidence of explosives; wrong out of the box.
Put options! are you nuts! they even caught Martha Stewart; do not use stock or put options they keep records and can put you away in a minute! Go ahead try to take on the SEC! Good luck but this is the Dumbest CT idea out there!
Alledged hijackers left dna and their junk behind; sorry out on strikes!
PNAC has no army! Neocons? Serious? NUTS

If this is your area of being an expert you are short on facts.

 

[twinstead]

Thanks, but no thanks.


The mysterious collaps of WTC7
The NORAD standdown.
Controlled demolition of the towers.
The put options.
The alledged hijackers.
PNAC and the neocons.

Bring it on. You are basing deep ideological beliefs on MYTHS.

If you are truly objective you will use the same standard of judgment for the sources you use as you do the official story.

Do you dare?

 

[beachnut]

Thanks, but no thanks.

Is this an exemple of what you Americans call "to be railroaded"?

And the result of it all, the attack on civil liberties, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and possily the whole Arab world.

Name the liberties you miss most that were taken away since 9/11! Please list them?!

Saddam was not very nice; he is dead; someone did good.

Afgahanistan; boy we did good there; took out the taliban; are you in the taliban and mad at us or something?

 

[stateofgrace]

Thanks, but no thanks.

Is this an exemple of what you Americans call "to be railroaded"?

To engage myself in such an ambitious way is to ask for too much. This would be to cover the whole spectrum of issues in one thread and to get myself attacked by the rest of you about the tinyest little details.

But, sure I will probably start a few threads in the future about some aspects of the 9-11 issue. Most of them already covered on this forum. For exemple:

The mysterious collaps of WTC7
The NORAD standdown.
Controlled demolition of the towers.
The put options.
The alledged hijackers.
PNAC and the neocons.

And the result of it all, the attack on civil liberties, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and possily the whole Arab world.

So,you can't quite put it all together but so far you think that NORAD stood down, the Towers were demolished, there were no hijackers, and WTC 7 was demolished by explosives. This was carried out by neocons hell bends on a NWO.

Can you tell me exactly what civil liberties you have lost since 911?

Please outline exactly how you are being oppressed

 

[boloboffin]

If you want to prove you're not a troll, start a topic.

If you want an honest, truth-seeking debate, start a topic. Here - I'll help you out:


Hello, my name is pagan. I joined this forum because I am interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories and I am skeptical of the "official version of events".

I learned about the "official version" by _____________________ [insert details as appropriate, such as "reading the NIST/FEMA/9/11 Commission Reports; reading prisonplanet.com; watching "Loose Change"; etc etc"].

The evidence that I have seen does not seem to add up to the story that says that 19 hijackers brought the world's most powerful country to its knees.

I am testing the theory that ______________________.

The strongest evidence towards this theory, in my opinion, is:

A) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
B) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
C) ___________________________ (Source: ______________)
etc.
[fill in the blanks with your choices, pagan.]

I wish to find out the truth, and if this evidence can be proved to be false or irrelevant, I will understand that I have been mistaken in thinking my theory and/or sources were correct.

Sincerely,
pagan.

This form is awesome, and with your permission, I am going to swipe it with full credit given.

Plus, nominated!

 

[Orphia Nay]

Thanks, boloboffin!!

Thanks, but no thanks.

Is this an exemple of what you Americans call "to be railroaded"?
[...]

"Railroading" implies the use of two tracks. I am but one person suggesting a format of approach that would help you find the truth you seek.

I do like the "railroad" analogy, though. This is a discussion forum. If you wish to discuss your beliefs, start a discussion stating them. That way, it is easier for you to keep track of your train of thought.

The format I've proposed attempts allows you to use scientific method to test your theory.

...the process must be objective so that the scientist does not bias the interpretation of the results or change the results outright. Another basic expectation is that of making complete documentation of data and methodology available for careful scrutiny by other scientists and researchers, thereby allowing other researchers the opportunity to verify results by attempted reproduction of them. This also allows statistical measures of the reliability of the results to be established. The scientific method also may involve attempts, if possible and appropriate, to achieve control over the factors involved in the area of inquiry, which may in turn be manipulated to test new hypotheses in order to gain further knowledge.

This method:

1) tests whether your theory can be falsified;

2) details and records your thought processes;

3) enables you to reach a conclusion about the truth you seek;

4) prevents your thoughts being jumbled;

5) prevents you (and others) having to repeat yourself in multiple threads.



I hope you can see that I am trying to help you.

 

[pagan]

Thanks, boloboffin!!




"Railroading" implies the use of two tracks. I am but one person suggesting a format of approach that would help you find the truth you seek.

I do like the "railroad" analogy, though. This is a discussion forum. If you wish to discuss your beliefs, start a discussion stating them. That way, it is easier for you to keep track of your train of thought.

The format I've proposed attempts allows you to use scientific method to test your theory.




This method:

1) tests whether your theory can be falsified;

2) details and records your thought processes;

3) enables you to reach a conclusion about the truth you seek;

4) prevents your thoughts being jumbled;

5) prevents you (and others) having to repeat yourself in multiple threads.



I hope you can see that I am trying to help you.

Please orphia, are you stalking me?

If it is your pic on the avatar. I don't mind too much. You look very nice.



As I've stated a few times already. We truthers don't have A THEORY. So we don't have a theory to defend. We've a lot of suspicions and guesses. But, we try to avoid speculating, it would not be in our interest to do so.

On the other hand, you guys have a theory to defend. The official conspiracy theory that is. Dubya's little faerie tale? And what a silly little story it has turned out to be.
It has been disproved and debunked by the truther community long time ago.


We truthers with our limited resources cannot prove what happened.The only way to find out what took place on 9-11 is to have a new investigation, as independent as possible from the Bush adm. That is our goal. In order to reach that goal we scrutinize the official story. The one you so ardently try to defend.

I can understand that you feel a bit frustrated. It is not a very nice position to be in, to have to defend Dubya's silly story.


To wrap it up. We don't have any theory. We have strong suspicions that certain elements within the Bush adm were responsible. But, we don't have any proof. One thing that we are absolutly certain of, is that the official story is false, and that is enough.

 

[Oliver]

... the official story is false, and that is enough.

No, the official story lacks in some parts - but to say
everything is a lie - like that boring [insert here] Griffin
does to sell his Books, is a pure lie or stupidity. And you´re
not better if you are parroting these lies.

Don´t you think the Truthmovement would be able to find
something if the official story is a lie?

All they will tell you is:

"We have evidence. Trust me. We know the truth."
"Trust me. We know the truth. We have evidence. "
"We know the truth. We have evidence. Trust me."

Seriously. Who ever believes in these promises, is the most
stupiest propaganda-sheep i met so far in Lala-Land. Or a
naive Kid who knows nothing about the world.

ETA: Oh, and i live in germany - i give a truck about
NWO-Rebublicans-Democrats-Neocons Fairytales.
I never met such things over here - this BS doesn´t
exist here.