The 9/11 Truther Credo

pagan said:
You are a European leftie??? And you don't think that the Americans are the bad guys???

How many Iraqis have they killed by now a million? That is pretty bad, that is evil!!!
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Yeah, and we're coming for you, next.
 
pagan said:
So yes, Bush has told so many lies so why trust him (his adm) on the 9-11 issue? You have to be very (extremly) naive to belive the Bush adm regarding 9-11 when it was the catalyst for these clearly desired events.

Syllygisms? Let's see? So Bush is not evil? Hasn't it been proved that 9-11 had nothing whatsoever to do with Saddam? Bush himself have admitted that.
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And you just BELIEVE him?

Sad.
 
pagan said:
Haha, only waited for that. From the PC guys. You feel good when you can smear your opponent with something Nazi like.

Hey, that is even better then Muslim or Arab.

But, the combo Islamo-fascist that we hear so much these days. Beats everything!!!
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I live in Leeds, where the London 7/7 bombers made their explosive devices (I used to live a few streets away from the flat they used) and where 3 of them were born. On the weekend after their identities were revealed I participated in marches through Beeston and Hyde Park in Leeds to show my solidarity with the Muslim communities of those areas and of the city as a whole.

As an atheist, I don't have any more intellectual respect for Islam than any other religion, but there are plenty of Muslims I like and respect and I'm proud to live in an are of the UK with a large Muslim population.

You may also be interested to know that Leeds' Jewish community joined in solidarity with the Muslims after the attacks as well.

I don't consider Radical Islamists to be representatives of Arabic or Muslim culture any more than I consider the British National Party to be representative of British culture.

I think Islamo-Fascist makes no sense in terms of histories of Islam and of Fascism, but it does give a sense of the totalitarian ambitions of the Radical Islamists.

Anyway, that's it for me on politics. If you want to present some actual evidence, please do.
 
pagan said:
For me it basicly means that I am a European nationalist and that I dislike Americans (they are the bad guys) The Arabs and the Palestinians are the victims.
And as you are a Brit that David Irving is an Hero.

Chomsky is a total fraud, this bogus icon for the American left. The stoopid bastid is a common zionist.
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Typical paranoid schizoprenia from European right-wingers ...

On the one hand, they would really love beating on the "Arabs/muslims", and on the other hand, the demons of antisemitism always prove stronger. So they settle for the middle ground and blame America :D
 
pagan said:
You are a European leftie??? And you don't think that the Americans are the bad guys???

How many Iraqis have they killed by now a million? That is pretty bad, that is evil!!!
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I've already given a quick outline of my political views, here it is again:

maccy said:
If you look at Pagan's profile, you'll see that he is 46 years old.

For the record, I'll state that I have been a peace campaigner, on and off, since 1983. I protested against both Iraq Wars and the Afghanistan one. I have no love for Bush and consider both US parties and American political thinking in general to be too right-wing (to generalise) and a betrayal of America's poor. Furthermore, I consider American foreign policy since 1945 to have been an almost completely unmitigated disaster for the world and that the actions of the CIA, in particular, have been reprehensible. I vote for a left-wing fringe party, the Alliance for Green Socialism, in elections because I can't bring myself to vote for Tony Blair's Labour Party.

All this is just for information, I'm not about to start a debate on any of these issues. I'm just confirming to Pagan how wrong his assumptions are.
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The point is, I have come to those conclusions on the basis of the evidence for what has happened in the world. There is no evidence for an 9/11 Inside Job - therefore I don't believe it happened. It's really that simple.
 
Pagan, from your posts I gather you are an Anti American, Anti Jewish, Bush hating, holocaust denying, Right wing Nazi who sympathises with the Palestinians.

Am I right or did I miss something?
 
stateofgrace said:
Pagan, from your posts I gather you are an Anti American, Anti Jewish, Bush hating, holocaust denying, Right wing Nazi who sympathises with doesn't care about the Palestinians but wants to destroy Israel.

Am I right or did I miss something?
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I made a small correction for you. :)
 
pagan said:
You are a European leftie??? And you don't think that the Americans are the bad guys???

How many Iraqis have they killed by now a million? That is pretty bad, that is evil!!!
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Perhaps it would be, if it were true.

Estimates range from 50,000 to 660,000 "excess deaths" have occured in Iraq since the war started. Coalition forces are directly responsible for 31% of that. So, if we go way out on a limb and say that all coalition forces are American, the figure is, at most, around 200,000.

I don't know what percentage of these were people were actively trying to kill the coalition forces when they died, but I know it's more than zero.
 
aggle-rithm said:
Perhaps it would be, if it were true.

Estimates range from 50,000 to 660,000 "excess deaths" have occured in Iraq since the war started. Coalition forces are directly responsible for 31% of that. So, if we go way out on a limb and say that all coalition forces are American, the figure is, at most, around 200,000.

I don't know what percentage of these were people were actively trying to kill the coalition forces when they died, but I know it's more than zero.
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And there's a thorough critique of the 650,000 Lancet figure here:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php
 
Pagan you are sounding more and more like simply a biased, irrational ideologue the longer you go without actually answering the questions posed to you.

If you truly believe your world view is correct, your unwillingness and/or inability to rationally defend your positions against those who hold opposing viewpoints is putting a bad light on it.

It appears you may not be used to debating these things with articulate people who disagree with you.

This is NOT your local pub. These aren't drunken like-minded buddies you can yell "screw America" and "down with Isreal" in unison between rounds; what you have here for the most part are people of all political persuasions who can defend their beliefs rationally.

Isn't it fun?
 
Pardalis said:
[derail]
BTW, what's a European Nationalist? Isn't Europe made out of multiple nations?

:confused:
[/derail]
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I think he means he's a Nationalist from a nation in the continent of Europe (but doesn't want to say which one). In my experience his kind of nationalist wants to get out of the EU as quickly as possible (just before expelling the ethnically incorrect).
 
Pardalis said:
[derail]
BTW, what's a European Nationalist? Isn't Europe made out of multiple nations?

:confused:
[/derail]
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Well, it´s one big country like Canada - but we have
a lot of Quebecs over here. :D
 
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So let me get this straight. The left wing Europeans and the right wing Europeans both hate America?

I guess it's nice to have something in common.
 
twinstead said:
So let me get this straight. The left wing Europeans and the right wing Europeans both hate America?

I guess it's nice to have something in common.
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I can not speak about whole europe but even the Media
in germany thinks that Bush is "a little bit dumb". And
people here are still pissed because WMD and Irak.

Personally everytime i hear bad news from Irak, i auto-
matically think "And all of this for a lie".
 
maccy said:
I think he means he's a Nationalist from a nation in the continent of Europe (but doesn't want to say which one). In my experience his kind of nationalist wants to get out of the EU as quickly as possible (just before expelling the ethnically incorrect).
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Yeah but Europe's nations already have their own independant countries... it doesn't make sense to me.
 
kimota said:
From Alex Jones himself about dealing with those that oppose the twoofer view:
Don't respond to them, never respond to them and stick with your talking points.
Try to discredit them first.
If you get into trouble, throw out "strawman" or "yellow journalism".
Before venturing out, inform the group that you will be polite and just talk. Warn that detractors will try to double-team you or engage in a shouting match, but don't fall for that. However, when it comes down to it, double-teaming and shouting down detractors is acceptable.".
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Ya know, they certainly learned alot from the Scientologist's "dead agenting" program. Attack and discredit the person and ignore the claim.

basilio
 
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