The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Safety and security versus inconvenience. I included the FAA and the airlines in my scenario. Congress of course could have input.
There still would not have been the justification. A few threats is not justification to the American public. It's not just the inconvenience, but the extra cost to pay for the unjustified security measures.
Sure. Source on hugely expensive? I'm sure a few corporate tax breaks here and there would help derail some of the costs.
Upwards of $100,000 per plane! Again. With no real justification, the companies won't want to go through the expense.
Of course had the pilots and airlines had these warnings, those protocols may have changed.
The chances of that were pretty much nil.
The protocol of a pilot is to give up control of his plane to a hijacker?
Again, the attitude of the day was that the hijackers would want the plane to land and negotiate. Not kill the pilots and fly them into buildings.
Misuse of the term?You can take that up with the Federal Government.
Please see- http://ntl.bts.gov/faq/airmarshal.html
Interesting item from that web site:
On September 11, 2001, the Air Marshal Program consisted of less than fifty armed marshals who, by statute, flew only on international flights flown by U.S. air carriers.
This shows the attitude I'm talking about.
I understand now. You favor reactive instead of proactive. :confused:
Proactive against what? Something they don't believe will happen? Have you pro-actively protected yourself and your home from a nuclear winter? A meteorite strike? A UFO landing? Eliminations from a flying pig?
 
okay, since mjd has decided to become uncivil, and just down right belligerent, I am putting him on ignore (as I should have a while ago, but for a while he was acting somewhat civil). Someone let me know if he decides to act civil again so I can take him off the list.

TAM:)
 
Please get the thread back on topic, and with no further incivility or personal attacks.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
All see is a mention of hijacking American and United jets out of Frankfort. Nothing about hijacking planes in the US or flying them into buildings. The article even quotes the French Intelligence person as saying it is completly understandable why nothing was done.

In other words more hindsight with a little Texas' Sharpshooter thrown in to boot.
So It's another MJD interpretation the way he sees it. Why would there be no links to the real documents? I wonder.
 
We're not talking about the FAA. We're talking about the airlines.

Dodge noted

mjd1982 said:
We also know that no one was warned by the Fed Gov about this- no agencies, no nothing.

The FAA intelligence committee got intel from the relevant intel parties and passed this onto the airlines. This was their job. Are you saying, with hindsight, that there should have been a change in this protocol?

While the agency was engaged in an effort to pass important new regulations to improve checkpoint screener performance, implement anti-sabotage measures, and conduct ongoing assessments of the system, no major increases in anti- hijacking security measures were implemented in response to the heightened threat levels in the spring and summer of 2001, other than general warnings to the industry to be more vigilant and cautious.

Fifth, the FAA did react to the heightened security threat identified by the Intelligence Community during the summer of 2001, including issuing alerts to air carriers about the potential for terrorist acts against civil aviation. In July 2001, the FAA alerted the aviation community to reports of possible near-term terrorist operations…particularly on the Arabian Peninsula and/or Israel. The FAA informed the airports and air carriers that Staff Statement No. 35 it had no credible evidence of specific plans to attack U.S. civil aviation. The agency said that some of the currently active groups were known to plan and train for hijackings and had the capability to construct sophisticated improvised explosive devices concealed inside luggage and consumer products. The FAA encouraged all U.S. Carriers to exercise prudence and demonstrate a high degree of alertness.

I suggest you rethink your claims
 
So It's another MJD interpretation the way he sees it. Why would there be no links to the real documents? I wonder.
As I have said, too many times now, just because the imtel agencies didnt know what colour underwear Atta was wearing, this doesnt excuse inaction.
 
Dodge noted



The FAA intelligence committee got intel from the relevant intel parties and passed this onto the airlines. This was their job. Are you saying, with hindsight, that there should have been a change in this protocol?





I suggest you rethink your claims
Excuse me. I should have been more precise about the agencies in question.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A
Look for the quotes from the CR- ive posted them here so many times, cant be bothered to do so again.

Nonetheless, were the FAA warned about the threats to Utd and AA? No. This is closer to the point at hand.
 
Excuse me. I should have been more precise about the agencies in question.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A
Look for the quotes from the CR- ive posted them here so many times, cant be bothered to do so again.

Nonetheless, were the FAA warned about the threats to Utd and AA? No. This is closer to the point at hand.
Of course you have no proof that anyone was (warned). Your simply repeating someone else's hearsay. Unless you can show the documents.
 
The "actual documents" arent online. Therefore they dont exist.

So what does this tell you? It tells me you're relying on word of mouth, someone said it, so it MUST be true. If you cannot produce the documents that spell out the specific airlines to be hijacked, you are touting speculation as fact and therefore, cannot be taken seriously.
 
As I have said, too many times now, just because the imtel agencies didnt know what colour underwear Atta was wearing, this doesnt excuse inaction.
Yeah, those imtel guys really need to get their act together.:rolleyes:
 
last comment mjd1982 - (2 months ago)

y has this only got 1700 views? This is as important a vid as could be seen. Start spreading it!

your majority of the world that think 911 was an inside job have really spread this one eh? its only just creept up to over 2000

sad, very sad

i'd rather have the original doc you are claiming the french sent to the us intel agencies
 
Excuse me. I should have been more precise about the agencies in question.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A
Look for the quotes from the CR- ive posted them here so many times, cant be bothered to do so again.

Nonetheless, were the FAA warned about the threats to Utd and AA? No. This is closer to the point at hand.

Since the hijackings in the article you quote were to take place in Frankfurt, shouldn't the French have passed this along to the German or EU equivelant of the FAA?
 
Ok. Earlier in the year, which is even better. Thanks.


First, you said that Bush should have given this speech after the August 6 PDB and the other warnings. Are you now saying he should have pressed for these measures earlier in the year? If so, upon what basis? Further, did you even read the quote--Hart and Rudman both said that even had implementation begun in the spring, the attacks would still likely have happened.

No earlier in the year...or years.


Again, upon what basis? The purported warnings weren't received until the summer. Further, Bush didn't become President until January, 2001. Are you saying that Clinton is equally to blame? If so, how does this fit into any MIHOP or LIHOP scenario of yours?

Safety and security versus inconvenience. I included the FAA and the airlines in my scenario. Congress of course could have input.


Which means that every change would have had to have been thoroughly discussed and debated. Further, when Federal rules are changed on a non-emergency basis, they have to be proposed, and in most cases those affected given time to comment, and more time must be allowed for those affected to comply. This takes months, and even years in many cases. Look how long it took to implement all of the things you say Bush should have done during the summer, and that's with the tremendous impetus of the September 11 attacks driving events.

Sure. Source on hugely expensive? I'm sure a few corporate tax breaks here and there would help derail some of the costs.


From an Associated Press article from April 2003:

Congress gave domestic airlines $100 million for the doors, which amounts to about $13,000 per aircraft — far less than the $30,000 to $50,000 the FAA estimates they actually cost. Airlines are lobbying Congress for more money to pay the difference.

The Senate voted on Thursday to directly reimburse the airlines for the cost of the doors, while the House proposed giving airlines cash to pay for new security costs. The issue is likely to be resolved next week.

Foreign airlines authorized to operate in the United States also have to install the reinforced doors. Wanda Warner, spokeswoman for the International Air Transport Association, said she expects them to meet the deadline.

The International Civil Aviation Organization, the United Nations' aviation arm, is requiring every airliner in the world to install reinforced cockpit doors by Nov. 1.

The association estimates it will cost airlines $2 billion to comply with the directive. The U.S. government won't reimburse foreign airlines for the cost.


Note this is just for the cockpit doors.


Of course had the pilots and airlines had these warnings, those protocols may have changed.


Wishful thinking. You're saying that one report among many should have been given special credence to make such a major change.


The protocol of a pilot is to give up control of his plane to a hijacker?


As I said, it was to cooperate, which includes letting them in the cockpit and letting them stand behind you. From which it's easy for them to knife you if they feel like it.

Misuse of the term?You can take that up with the Federal Government.
Please see- http://ntl.bts.gov/faq/airmarshal.html


Sadly, just because Congress passed the law naming the program that it doesn't make it correct. The term Sky Marshal pre-dates this program by 10 years, and the change was unnecessary, confusing, and incorrect. Or do you think the US government is always right, Swing? :rolleyes:


I understand now. You favor reactive instead of proactive. :confused:


Straw man. Of course I favor proactive approaches. But you are confusing "proactive" with "prescient," and ignoring the realities of the pre-September 11 political environment.
 

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