The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

tsire said:
The big question I have for anyone who thinks the attacks could have been prevented is this:

Aside from grounding all air traffic and imposing martial law, how can you be completely sure that they wont be able to act out on a terrorist attack? And even if they did do that, whats to stop the terrorists from doing it another day?
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You bring up an excellent point. There probably isn't a fail proof way to prevent the attack or future attacks. Lets see what those in the know thought at the time:

Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will later suggest that 9/11 might have been stopped “if [National Security Adviser] Rice and the president had acted personally, gotten involved, shaken the trees, gotten the Cabinet members involved when they had ample warning in June and July and August that something was about to happen.… [Rice] said that the president received 40 warnings face to face from the director of central intelligence that a major al-Qaeda attack was going to take place and she admitted that the president did not have a meeting on the subject, did not convene the Cabinet. She admitted that she didn’t convene the Cabinet. And as some of the [9/11 Commissioners] pointed out, this was in marked contrast to the way the government operated in December of 1999, when it had similar information and it successfully thwarted attacks.” [ABC News, 4/8/2004]

Again, another expert states that 9/11 might have been stopped if top administration officials would have heeded the warnings. And no one wants to hold the Administration accountable. Unbelievable.

To add fuel to the fire:
But the congressional report states that "from at least 1994, and continuing into the summer of 2001, the Intelligence Community received information indicating that terrorists were contemplating, among other means of attack, the use of aircraft as weapons."
Source:Baltimore Sun
 
It might have been stopped, but at what cost? As this thread has pointed out many times, these warnings are common. The United States has no direct warning as to what exactly was going to happen.

Its really easy to sit here and point fingers and say "well I would have done ...". Sure, in hindsight, a lot of changes could have been made. Its easier now to piece it all together now that we know for sure what was going to happen. But guaranteed there was conflicting information, should they have acted out on every lead? Dont you think that would have been overkill and strenuous?

And again, these measures would need to be permanent, because what would stop the terrorists from just doing it after the increased security had been lifted. These attacks werent planned overnight, they took years of planning, Im sure they would have been willing to wait a few days/weeks/months to do them if need be.
 
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SD, what extra precautions do you take every time the threat level is raised?
 
How many successful attacks did the IRA carry out in the UK in the 80's and 90's?

How many of these came at a time when the British government was fully expecting that the IRA was planning terrorist attacks on the UK, and had in place major measures to try to prevent them?

(Answer to question 2: all but the first one.)

Dave
 
tsire said:
It might have been stopped, but at what cost? As this thread has pointed out many times, these warnings are common. The United States has no direct warning as to what exactly was going to happen.
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What cost do you place on 3000+ lives and the foreign policy decisions as a result?

Can you define direct warnings?
I can provide numerous warnings as provided by foreign intel. Why the U.S. intel community ignored them is beyond my understanding.
SD, what extra precautions do you take every time the threat level is raised?
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This of course is irrelevant as I'm not in charge of airline security or the safety and security of the general public. On a personal note, I prepare myself for the added security measures that were put into place after 9/11.

I think if you study the record, the IC did everything it could within its power to alert and warn the Administration. I do have a problem when people try to place the blame on the IC unless it is for ignoring the foreign intelligence warnings. Even the FAA sent out warnings to the airline industry.
All you have to do is read what the Administration did and didn't do with all of these warnings.

Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will later suggest that 9/11 might have been stopped “if [National Security Adviser] Rice and the president had acted personally, gotten involved, shaken the trees, gotten the Cabinet members involved when they had ample warning in June and July and August that something was about to happen.

mjd1982
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I think it is time to move on to the next step mjd, as it is plainly clear the Administration did virtually nothing to prevent the attacks nor did they heed the warnings of the Intelligence Community.
 
I think if you study the record, the IC did everything it could within its power to alert and warn the Administration. I do have a problem when people try to place the blame on the IC unless it is for ignoring the foreign intelligence warnings. Even the FAA sent out warnings to the airline industry.
All you have to do is read what the Administration did and didn't do with all of these warnings.
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Swing:
You have a problem with the IC blaming themself?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20378187/
 
DGM said:
Swing:
You have a problem with the IC blaming themself?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20378187/
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Alerting and warning the administration is one issue.
Preventing the attacks are another.

I wonder what orders the President could have given the CIA in order to prevent the attacks? Pure speculation of course on my part.

Thank you for the article however, I will update my research!!

It does make you wonder why Tenet received the Medal of Honor after 9/11 and after the Iraq fiasco.
 
Swing Dangler said:
Alerting and warning the administration is one issue.
Preventing the attacks are another.

I wonder what orders the President could have given the CIA in order to prevent the attacks? Pure speculation of course on my part.

Thank you for the article however, I will update my research!!

It does make you wonder why Tenet received the Medal of Honor after 9/11 and after the Iraq fiasco.
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Your welcome;
Read the whole report (it's on a PDF in that link)
The problems it outlines goes back long before Bush took office.
 
Another thing to consider is that attacks like 9/11 are not planned in a vacuum. They are planned with the explicit purpose of exploiting known security weaknesses (e.g. bringing boxcutters onto an airplane).
 
Swing Dangler said:
It does make you wonder why Tenet received the Medal of Honor after 9/11 and after the Iraq fiasco.
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oh, show me this one, i HAVE to see you back this one up. MJD said William Rodriquez was awarded that very medal too. Question - Did he recieve the Army, Navy, or Air Force Medal of Honor?
 
What cost do you place on 3000+ lives and the foreign policy decisions as a result?

Can you define direct warnings?
I can provide numerous warnings as provided by foreign intel. Why the U.S. intel community ignored them is beyond my understanding.
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I already addressed this. How do you stop this attack other the grounding all air traffic permanently? Is that a viable solution?

ETA: Determined people will always make an attack happen.
 
Swing Dangler said:
What cost do you place on 3000+ lives and the foreign policy decisions as a result?

Can you define direct warnings?
I can provide numerous warnings as provided by foreign intel. Why the U.S. intel community ignored them is beyond my understanding.

This of course is irrelevant as I'm not in charge of airline security or the safety and security of the general public. On a personal note, I prepare myself for the added security measures that were put into place after 9/11.

I think if you study the record, the IC did everything it could within its power to alert and warn the Administration. I do have a problem when people try to place the blame on the IC unless it is for ignoring the foreign intelligence warnings. Even the FAA sent out warnings to the airline industry.
All you have to do is read what the Administration did and didn't do with all of these warnings.

Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will later suggest that 9/11 might have been stopped “if [National Security Adviser] Rice and the president had acted personally, gotten involved, shaken the trees, gotten the Cabinet members involved when they had ample warning in June and July and August that something was about to happen.

I think it is time to move on to the next step mjd, as it is plainly clear the Administration did virtually nothing to prevent the attacks nor did they heed the warnings of the Intelligence Community.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias

Why is this concept so hard for some people to understand? Yes there were some warnings that in hindsight clearly reflect what the terrorists had planned, but they were scattered in amongst a host of other warnings. A blind man can go back now and say "look here is the warning that was important!", but at the time there was no way to separate the "real" warnings from the chatter.

see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian's_fallacy
 
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Swing Dangler said:
Alerting and warning the administration is one issue.
Preventing the attacks are another.

I wonder what orders the President could have given the CIA in order to prevent the attacks? Pure speculation of course on my part.

Thank you for the article however, I will update my research!!

It does make you wonder why Tenet received the Medal of Honor after 9/11 and after the Iraq fiasco.
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Why dont you read the 911 commission, it tells you what operations were put in place that summer to disupt AQ, it also states 20 other countries were involved?

Have you actually read it all, because if you have you are being dishonest again?
 
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