The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Youre a good one matey

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

ROFL

Oh, and just so everyone can see the rest, and we can put this stupid debate to bed
This national oil law is the one being disputed right now.

ETA- in the interests of sensible, adult debate, I am not going to get into any arguments about whether the invasion of Iraq was for oil or WMDs

one source? using words like probably instead of definites when mentioning amounts?

at the moment iran has more proven reserves of conventional oil than iraq and if you look at non conventional oil then venezuela and canada have more then any of them

it is not the second largest oil reserves in the world, i told you to do more research not just parrot one site you have googled

iraq is about 4th and that is only up there due to suspect calling of reserves about 1987 when production limits were set on reserves, iraqs suddenly jumped up

i never claimed the national oil law is not being discussed, it is you who are claiming the US are pushing it through though? have you seen what they want to change about the law and what this will mean to the oil industry?

i'll let you choke on that ROFL
 
1. Then why are you arguing against it?

2. Show me them

You are a bit confused, I think


1. arguing what?? i am not saying they are not protesting am i? i am saying you know sod all about the oil industry and do not know what these protests mean in real terms for the oil industry in iraq

2. is the guardian MSM?
 
How is being portrayed as a boorish, unrefined, menial, ugly simpleton pejorative? I'll let you work that one out.

The stereotyping comes from the stereotypical scottish characteristics he is imputed with that I mentioned b4



Dont you realise how badly your ridiculous comments are stacking up? Now you ae denying that Borat is a pejorative stereotype?

Think before you post.

The 1st 3 are racist in the sensible term of the word- racism as a social taboo. To be racist about Kazakhs, New Zealanders, or Guyanese is not "racist" in the sensible sense of the word, because no one cares.

No, since that would be a deliberate provocations.

Actually, go ahead- give it a try!


only pejorative in a slight manner if they were saying all scotsmen were like that and they are not, it is a comedy character which cause no offence to anyone

yes i am saying he is a racist ad bigotted boor and that i know not one kazakh who is like that so it cannot be a stereotype

1st three are not racist, they are bigotted

and i think kazakhs, new zealanders and guyanease would be the ones who would decide if people cared

how can you use racist sensibly?

borat is a racist and a bigot and willie is not

you made the comparison and you were wrong, are you trying to say that borat is not being bigotted when he slanders jews? or gays? or not racist when he slanders kazakhs?

so is borat not being provocating when he uses bigotted language?
 
Hence the contrasting of "dark humour" with "symbolism" and "serious intent", reinforced by the use of the opposing "in fact". And therefore the suggestion that "serious intent" and "symbolism" are incompatible with dark humour.

One minor problem, youngster. Nothing I said comes remotely close to suggesting that "serious intent and symbolism are incompatible with dark humour". See, that little bit of stupidity is what's called a fallacy. And since it underpins your whole argument, I'll just chuckle and mock you some more.

My statement referred specifically to the incongrutities and juxtapositions in Clockwork, and why they were included. I said they weren't there for amusement, as teenage boys think; they were there for serious purposes. I didn't say they're not amusing because of their serious intent, and I didn't make any "suggestions" about the incompatability of humor and serious intent. I simply said that in this case, they're their for a serious purpose, not amusement.

Are you really trying to argue that that's the same thing as saying that amusement and seriousness of purpose are, as a rule, incompatible??? Are you seriously tring to put those ridiculous, blatantly contrived words in my mouth? Is that the point of the moronic, semantical gymnastics quoted above?

Good grief, junior. How incredibly transparent and lame. I think you've reached terminal velocity in your descent into the intellectual abyss.

As for the 2nd half of your point, as will be evident to all here, the reason why you cannot "tear yourself away" from this, is because you are getting humiliated, over and over again, and yes, by someone much younger than you. You cannot let this lie, so you keep coming back to try and rectify your idiocy. But, fittingly, you just keep digging a deeper hole for yourself.

The irony here is second to none, a part of the entertainment factor that, in actuality, is what keeps me coming back. Your arguments are so fraudulent, your lies so blatant, it's fun to mock you and see what you'll say next. This goes for your ilk in general, but you are an especially precious case.

A guilty pleasure, I suppose...

I'm sorry my presence seems to rattle you. Try saying stupid things less often. That'll help.
 
what they think will happen and what will happen is different, it is also different to what you think will happen, if i was them and did not know the full facts then i would be unhappy too

No, it is what they think is happening.

Once again, you know what is going on in their lives better than they do. Well done you!

no they are not, the terrorists and the security situation is affecting the oil supply, also the lack of infrastructure for the industry, the oil does not just flow to the surface itself

Prove it!

if they put in technology to help they are stealing, if they dont the are suppressing supply, it cant be both for the truthers

To help... them get oil out for themselves. As the workers are protesting about. The iraqi oil workers, who know more about the iraq oil industry than you.

i see you completely missed the canada reference, why do you need to invade to control? only in truther logic, they control large portions of the uk oil and gas but did they invade to get this?

Lol, dude youve gotten to the stage of debunking yourself. They dont need to invade Canada or the UK to control, just as they didnt need to invade Iran from 53-79. Can you take it from here yourself?


so it is not unusual for american companies to create great wealth from other countries oil industries? if not unusual then why is this an issue here?

What? Wealth for themselves, you do realise...?

which was us stealing wealth?? not creating more wealth for iraq?

that doesnt really make sense, i'm afraid

so sadly far off the mark here it is unreal, typical truther who sees the oil industry as halliburton cause cheney is there, look a little further

no, I have given you 2 examples, of which they are 1

for exploitation insert stimulation

Right, so the US invaded Iraq as an altruistic act to "stimulate" its oil industry, for the good of those Iraqi civilians the US loves so much... shame theyre all dead now, eh?

with no investment there is no oil industry sufficient to get the wealth it deserves, the americans have companies (not just halliburton) who will invest in the industry in iraq and make it wealthy, do investors invest on the promise of no returns?

duh!!! Returns to whom? Any idea how much Halliburtons share price has gone up since March 03?

i have been there actually and have also been in saudi and bahrain recently as well on oil industry business, foot in mouth mate

Oh boy... then you need to brush up a little bit my friend, the world is far far ahead of you in it understanding
 
Irrelevant. It would make sense to have people who know how the defense department works to advise them. This does not prove that PNAC and the defense department are one in the same or that the military would automatically adopt the PNAC's design.
Hmm, two no-fly zones, can attack at any time and Saddam's decision to allow inspectors back in were directly linked to our preparation for attack, sometimes within minutes of the go - no go decision time. Yeah, I would definitely say that we had hegemony over Iraq.
Very true, but that is not proof that the invasion was part of the RAD design. Saddam's and Iraq were not a threat to the US hegemony in the region, so your implication that the invasion was a RAD requirement is baseless.
1. Yes its irrelevant that when you say that PNAC had nothing to do with the DOD, and I list all the PNAC/DODers, yes, it is very irrelevant.

2. That is not the definition of hegemony. Duh!!!

3. Read the doc. Iraq/Saddam mentioned once every 2 pages. Is something starting to click?
 
one source? using words like probably instead of definites when mentioning amounts?

at the moment iran has more proven reserves of conventional oil than iraq and if you look at non conventional oil then venezuela and canada have more then any of them

it is not the second largest oil reserves in the world, i told you to do more research not just parrot one site you have googled

iraq is about 4th and that is only up there due to suspect calling of reserves about 1987 when production limits were set on reserves, iraqs suddenly jumped up

i never claimed the national oil law is not being discussed, it is you who are claiming the US are pushing it through though? have you seen what they want to change about the law and what this will mean to the oil industry?

i'll let you choke on that ROFL
Lol, right sure. So now you know more than the UN?

Source, and maybe someone migth believe a word you say
 
1. arguing what?? i am not saying they are not protesting am i? i am saying you know sod all about the oil industry and do not know what these protests mean in real terms for the oil industry in iraq

2. is the guardian MSM?
1. Yep, your one hell of an expert- you know more about Iraqs oil than Iraqi oil workers, and more about the world's oil than the UN.

Hmm.. actually...

2. The Guardian does not explicity pin the Iraq war as a war for oil. Stuff may slip through from time to time, but the explicit pinning does not happen
 
only pejorative in a slight manner if they were saying all scotsmen were like that and they are not, it is a comedy character which cause no offence to anyone

yes i am saying he is a racist ad bigotted boor and that i know not one kazakh who is like that so it cannot be a stereotype

1st three are not racist, they are bigotted

and i think kazakhs, new zealanders and guyanease would be the ones who would decide if people cared

how can you use racist sensibly?

borat is a racist and a bigot and willie is not

you made the comparison and you were wrong, are you trying to say that borat is not being bigotted when he slanders jews? or gays? or not racist when he slanders kazakhs?

so is borat not being provocating when he uses bigotted language?
bored and frustrated, sorry. Go back and read my posts, since trust me when I tell you you havent understood a word of what has passed from me to you on this topic
 
One minor problem, youngster. Nothing I said comes remotely close to suggesting that "serious intent and symbolism are incompatible with dark humour". See, that little bit of stupidity is what's called a fallacy. And since it underpins your whole argument, I'll just chuckle and mock you some more.

My statement referred specifically to the incongrutities and juxtapositions in Clockwork, and why they were included. I said they weren't there for amusement, as teenage boys think; they were there for serious purposes. I didn't say they're not amusing because of their serious intent, and I didn't make any "suggestions" about the incompatability of humor and serious intent. I simply said that in this case, they're their for a serious purpose, not amusement.

Are you really trying to argue that that's the same thing as saying that amusement and seriousness of purpose are, as a rule, incompatible??? Are you seriously tring to put those ridiculous, blatantly contrived words in my mouth? Is that the point of the moronic, semantical gymnastics quoted above?

Good grief, junior. How incredibly transparent and lame. I think you've reached terminal velocity in your descent into the intellectual abyss.



The irony here is second to none, a part of the entertainment factor that, in actuality, is what keeps me coming back. Your arguments are so fraudulent, your lies so blatant, it's fun to mock you and see what you'll say next. This goes for your ilk in general, but you are an especially precious case.

A guilty pleasure, I suppose...

I'm sorry my presence seems to rattle you. Try saying stupid things less often. That'll help.
as above.

Oh, and referring to my age doesnt do much for your case I'm afraid.
 
Oh, and by the way:

I think that things are getting a little bit sidetracked here, so its useful to do a bit of a recap. I will now show where my argument has come to. It will be an important crystallisation of my argument thus far, and I am fully aware that there will not be anyone who will argue it sensibly. Nonetheless, I can only do this in the hope that people reading this will find your humiliation instructive.

#2662

Come on herd, you can do better than this.
 
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The new PH will make the process of transformation quicker, due to its enhanced ease. This leads as to the uncontroversial conclusion that a new PH was deemed propitious to policy.
PS- I was going to go onto foreknowledge, but I do wanna give anyone a chance to get distracted. Let's see how the herd of independent minds does with this.

Mjd, you have to realize what goes on with defense spending in this country before you presume what is discussed in PNAC is propitious for anything.
Read some of Winslow Wheeler's articles..You should have no trouble finding them, since Counterpunch publishes some of his articles. This is one of them;

President Bush's request for a Pentagon budget for fiscal 2008 (FY 08) is $481 billion.

To determine total U.S. security costs, add $142 billion to cover the anticipated costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; add $17 billion requested for nuclear weapons costs in the Department of Energy; add another $5 billion for miscellaneous defense costs in other agencies, such as the General Services Administration's National Defense Stockpile, the Selective Service, and some Coast Guard and international FBI costs; and you get a grand total of $647 billion for 2008.

That amount will strike some as incomplete. An inclusive definition of our defense budget might also include homeland security costs; for those expenses (beyond the ones already in the Defense Department), add $36 billion.

In addition, there are other essential U.S. security costs in the budget of the State Department for diplomacy, arms aid to allies, U.N. peacekeeping, reconstruction aid for Iraq and Afghanistan and foreign aid for other countries; add all or most of the International Affairs budget ($38 billion).

Some might want to include some of the human costs of past and current wars; add another $84 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. Still others might want to add the share of annual payments on the interest of the national debt that can be attributed to the Defense Department; add another $75 billion. There's more--various defense-related costs, such as costs to the Treasury for military retirement, are distributed all over the federal government.

The total for costs identified here come to $878 billion for 2008, a huge amount, but there will probably be even more.

Many analysts believe the war costs will grow in the year ahead, especially if the tempo of fighting grows in Iraq or Afghanistan, which has been the pattern for both up to now. Moreover, if the White House and Congress have cut corners on the costs to repair and replace equipment worn out by war operations, which has been their routine all the way through 2007, there will be additional "reset" costs for 2008, probably in the billions of dollars.

There are also the costs estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to actually execute the 2008 Pentagon budget.

For many years, the CBO has found that the Defense Department underestimates its own costs to develop, produce and maintain weapons and to support military personnel--beyond the other underestimations of war costs. If the CBO is right (and just about every Pentagon budget analyst says it is), add somewhere between $50 billion and $100 billion, just for 2008.

The actual total for 2008 is unknown; it will not be the $878 billion cited above.

Include or exclude any of the incremental costs listed above according to your own biases of what you believe should be counted; by any measure, it is not puny. Spending just for Pentagon expenses in 2008 ($625 billion) is today larger in inflation-adjusted dollars than at any point since the end of World War II.

According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, the rest of the world spent just over $611 billion on defense in 2005, the latest year available. That compares to the $510 billion we spent on just Pentagon costs that year. And with most foreign defense budgets stagnant or shrinking and ours growing rapidly, we can be confident that the United States now exceeds the rest of the world combined in defense spending.

According to the CIA's World Fact Book, the next biggest defense spender in the world, China, spent $81 billion in 2005--a very poor second place; it's just 13 percent of the $625 billion that our Pentagon will spend in 2008.

The U.S. budget for security is not posed against a competing giant; it faces only pigmies in relative dollar terms.

And yet the White House, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, the military services and some big defense spenders among Washington's think-tank punditry would have you believe that the American budget colossus is puny and shriveled, desperately needing augmentation.

The lens they apply to make the mountain appear a molehill is to describe the percentage of gross domestic product that America spends on defense; the FY 08 Pentagon budget amounts to an inconsequential 4 percent. The figure is made to look even more anemic when these advocates compare today's share of GDP for defense to that spent by President Reagan in 1985 (6.1 percent) or better yet, by President Kennedy in 1962 (9.4 percent).

By using (or rather, misusing) this measure today, we appear to be strangling the defense budget, and clearly we should pay more, they argue.

Advocates do not point out that although our defense budget has grown since the Kennedy and Reagan administrations, the economy has grown much, much more, thereby making the percentage for defense smaller. These enthusiasts are literally arguing that our defense spending should be a function of the number of McDonalds in the country.

They cook their arguments because they have plans to expand defense spending further. The chiefs of the military services are just now sending to Congress what they describe as their list of "unfunded requirements" (also known as "wish lists") for additional programs to be added to the FY 08 Defense Department budget.

The Army has a list that totals $10.3 billion; the Marines have one for $3.2 billion; the Navy's comes to $5.7 billion; the immodest Air Force has one for $16.9 billion; even the Special Forces Command has one for $400 million. The total is "only" $36.5 billion.

Although these considerable lists exceed what Bush and Gates permitted in the defense budget, neither will do anything to deter this bootstrapping. Indeed, Bush and Gates have already tacitly endorsed the end run around their own budget. They are both quite happy to have the additional spending. Indeed, their budget anticipated the gambit; this game has been played every budget year for the last 10.

No need to have a catastrophic and catalyzing event when these budget games are the norm.
 
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Oh, and by the way:



#2662

Come on herd, you can do better than this.

Ironically, to us, YOU are the herd. You're being told what to think. You're a walking, talking drone of the truth movement. You don't have to think, all you have to do is post links to their propaganda.

Boy, they really have you firmly in their grasp.

See, all this 'sheep' stuff depends on ones perspective, nicht wahr?
 
No, it is what they think is happening.

Once again, you know what is going on in their lives better than they do. Well done you!

Prove it!

To help... them get oil out for themselves. As the workers are protesting about. The iraqi oil workers, who know more about the iraq oil industry than you.

Lol, dude youve gotten to the stage of debunking yourself. They dont need to invade Canada or the UK to control, just as they didnt need to invade Iran from 53-79. Can you take it from here yourself?


What? Wealth for themselves, you do realise...?


that doesnt really make sense, i'm afraid

no, I have given you 2 examples, of which they are 1

Right, so the US invaded Iraq as an altruistic act to "stimulate" its oil industry, for the good of those Iraqi civilians the US loves so much... shame theyre all dead now, eh?

duh!!! Returns to whom? Any idea how much Halliburtons share price has gone up since March 03?

Oh boy... then you need to brush up a little bit my friend, the world is far far ahead of you in it understanding

you have no idea, as you have just proved with those replies, i told you not to go there but you did, dont say i did not try to stop you make a tit of yourself

look at all oilservice companies share prices since 2003 you dolt, including the one i work for, here is the performance of two of their competitoirs in the last few years along with the performance of the GSPC, done them a lot of good eh?

z


i never said they invaded for any oil but now they are there they will stimulate the industry

halliburton make oil rigs do they?

halliburton and these type of oil service companies help with technology to get the oil out of the ground, the do not then own the oil they just get paid for doing this, the iraq oil industry workers will be better off in the end and more jobs will be created

noiw just leave it there because it is quite blatant you have no idea wht you are talking about

stick to your speculation on PNAC et al
 
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Lol, right sure. So now you know more than the UN?

Source, and maybe someone migth believe a word you say

you really never did any research on this apart from one google search eh?

how embarrassing, as an industry worker i know it is generally recognised that iraq is 4th largest, in future howvwer this may change due to more exploration (carried out by US companies with iraqi workers) once the security situation is settled

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html

http://www.globalfirepower.com/list_oil_proven.asp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4688984.stm

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html

http://www.opec.org/library/Annual%20Statistical%20Bulletin/pdf/ASB2005.pdf
 
It shows how the US are forcing through a law that will take the country's oil wealth away from the Iraqis, to th US, and how the Iraqis are protesting against this. Wont read that in the MSM, will you?

2. The Guardian does not explicity pin the Iraq war as a war for oil. Stuff may slip through from time to time, but the explicit pinning does not happen

this is what you posted, it says nothing about going to war for oil or that this is what MSM should be reporting or not

they are not protesting about war for oil they are protesting because they think they will lose jobs if the law goes through, yet again you are reading things into stuff that is not there

the MSM are reporting the protests and the reasons behind them, this is what you claimed was not happening

do not change it now, you already stated you did not want to get into whether it was a war for oil or for WMD's but then have just tried to do it??
 
bored and frustrated, sorry. Go back and read my posts, since trust me when I tell you you havent understood a word of what has passed from me to you on this topic

well avoided again, coward

borat is a racist and bigotted character that in no way means cohen is, he is in no way a stereotype of any kazakh i have met

willie is not a racist or bigotted, why compare them?

just see your flaw, it will help you later when you make more mistakes
 
Ironically, to us, YOU are the herd. You're being told what to think. You're a walking, talking drone of the truth movement. You don't have to think, all you have to do is post links to their propaganda.

Boy, they really have you firmly in their grasp.

See, all this 'sheep' stuff depends on ones perspective, nicht wahr?
lol. yes, and as you can see, my perspective is the one that is far more seriously and creditably researched

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88622

The idea of propaganda that you so hilariously allude to has little significance with non mainstream movements. It has total relevance when you apply it to the mainstream, as you wont find out when you dont read those links.
 
Ironically, to us, YOU are the herd. You're being told what to think. You're a walking, talking drone of the truth movement. You don't have to think, all you have to do is post links to their propaganda.

Boy, they really have you firmly in their grasp.

See, all this 'sheep' stuff depends on ones perspective, nicht wahr?
oh, and lest I forget:

mjd1982 said:
So, I win my bet for the non sensible response. I will ask the question again.

Go back to #750, and see how many of the 1750 posts since have addressed post #750.

If you can't, you can either keep on squirming, or you can apologise. Its your choice.

I'm doing this just for fun now.
 
so you're not actually planning on posting anything new, you just hope to baffle us with your circular interpretations?
 

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