The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

saying "one" of the reasons people dislike Bush is because of their suspicions of his role in 9/11, is equal to saying "one" of the reasons they dislike him is because of his smile, or because he farts in public.

IF, if it is a factor in peoples dislike for him, it is an EXTREMELY MINOR factor, in an EXTREMELY SMALL group of people. You have not proven otherwise, and trust me, I have seen all the silly insignificant polls.

TAM:)
 
I suggest you read up on the CENTGAS project. This is pretty basic.

Do you actually look up ANYTHING before you run off at the mouth?

CENTGAS - A project to build a pipeline that runs THROUGH Afghanistan to get natural gas to Pakistan from Turkmenistan.

The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline (TAP or TAPI) is a proposed natural gas pipeline being developed by the Asian Development Bank. The pipeline will transport Caspian Sea natural gas from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan and then to India.
The 1,680 km pipeline will run from the Dauletabad gas field to Afghanistan. From there TAPI will be constructed alongside the highway running from Herat to Kandahar, and then via Quetta and Multan in Pakistan. The final destination of the pipeline will be the Indian town of Fazilka, near the border between Pakistan and India. The pipeline will be 1,420 mm in diameter with a working pressure of 100 atm and the capacity of 33 billion cubic meter (bcm) of natural gas annually. Six compressor stations are to be constructed along the pipeline. The cost of this international infrastructure is estimated at US$3.5 billion (2005 figures). Proponents of the project see it as a modern continuation of the Silk Road. The Afghan government is expected to receive 8% of the project's revenue.

The only thing that A-stan is offering would be... space

But I guess that's irrelevant now, eh?
 
I suggest you read up on the CENTGAS project. This is pretty basic.


You mean the natural gas pipeline Unocal were talking about building through Afghanistan to get Caspain Sea gas to Pakistan and India? The plan they were talking about implementing in 1995?

The project that they dropped a decade ago because a number of large Caspain Sea ports were established, India and Pakistan found somewhere else for their gas, and Russia opened up its gas pipe grid to the Caspian Sea states?

That plan?

-Gumboot
 
Oook indeed. I have referred to this point countless times here, please do keep up it will save us all a lot of time. There is a difference between execution and design. You might wanna think about that. The point here is not one of PNAC's execution, but their design. If their design was that a new PH would be useful for policy, then we have a useful framework to proceed.

You're engaging in some pretty ludicrous circular reasoning here, MJD... first you'd have it that PNAC mentioning "a new Pearl Harbour" shows complicity, then you state that 911 was "propitious to policy" therefore 911 was the "new Pearl Harbour" PNAC supposedly called for, thus you draw the conclusion that PNAC shows complicity.

You've ignored all my recent posts, particularly the ones suggesting that the PNAC docment actually suggests the opposite to what you think it does. I'll say it again: the document says that a "new Pearl Harbour" would impede ther plans, not bolster them. Despite the plausible contention that, post hoc, the GOP used the events of 911 in a politically expdient way, the PNAC document, which is at the core of your "argument" here, clearly does not see a new Pearl Harbour as "propitious to policy", as the section in which such an event is (cursorily) mentioned talks quite explicitly at how bad it is to take decisions hastily, and how the PNAC must be implemented sensibly and slowly if it is to be effectve at all.

Care to respond? If not, then we've reached an impasse and I'd implore you again to tell us what happened next.
 
Last edited:
You mean the natural gas pipeline Unocal were talking about building through Afghanistan to get Caspain Sea gas to Pakistan and India? The plan they were talking about implementing in 1995?

The project that they dropped a decade ago because a number of large Caspain Sea ports were established, India and Pakistan found somewhere else for their gas, and Russia opened up its gas pipe grid to the Caspian Sea states?

That plan?

-Gumboot

No, not that plan. The NWO plan of 2001 where they were going to cause a new Pearl Harbour as a means to invade Afghanistan in order to build a SEKRIT pipeline for the NWO's oil supply...you remember, NWO memo S-911 don't you?

TAM:)
 
No, not that plan. The NWO plan of 2001 where they were going to cause a new Pearl Harbour as a means to invade Afghanistan in order to build a SEKRIT pipeline for the NWO's oil supply...you remember, NWO memo S-911 don't you?

TAM:)

Hmmm I thought that NWO memo stated that the plan was shelved because the Taliban weren't the most cooperative NWO agents in the neighborhood.
 
I found the list I was looking for and have no further questions about this.

. Please explain how the passports of Mohammed Atta and Satam al-Sugam, both on Flight 11, survived the inferno to be found on the street near the World Trade Center.

•Who found the passports and what time where they found?
•Please describe the condition of each passport.
•Please explain how the passports of two hijackers survived the explosion and inferno.

http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html
 
So here is a problem I have with some of the Steering Committee questions.

They often ask for the name of this FBI agent, or that CIA agent that was involved in a particular aspect of this or that...

Now, if it is possible, yes, give them the name, but my god, do they really expect the USG to compromise national security, and the lives of the CIA/FBI agents, by giving out their names?

TAM:)
 
what does the time of finding the passports have anything to do with anything?

the questions read like a detective question list, leading in many instances by their inference.

I am guessing the passports survived by luck, just like the guy who hid under his desk as flight 175 plowed by him through the building survived.

TAM:)
 
PNAC and Pearl Harbor....get the facts straight

Well lets look at PNAC and this Pearl Harbor business.

Opening of Ch. 5.
To preserve American military
preeminence in the coming decades, the
Department of Defense must move more
aggressively to experiment with new
technologies and operational concepts, and
seek to exploit the emerging revolution in
military affairs.

So in order for the U.S. military to be the most superior fighting force in the world, they have to experiment with new technologies. As we all know this requires increased spending. As the spending now is huge to keep us on 'top' then it follows that increase in spending will be needed for this new research. They go on to state how this would change the face of war, etc.
Apparently this transformation is taking a long time as it was begun in the 80's and we showed it off in the Gulf War. You know, stealth technology and the money behind that.

Moreover, the Pentagon, constrained by
limited budgets and pressing current
missions, has seen funding for experi-
mentation and transformation crowded out
in recent years. Spending on military
research and development has been reduced
dramatically over the past decade.

Uh oh! Not enough money and lots of missions are keeping the coffers from performing their function of financing this transformation. And that dam Clinton and his cutbacks for the social 'stuff' is slowing that transformation process as well. Get that guy a blow job, quickly!

Department was in the midst of the Reagan
buildup which was primarily an effort to
expand existing forces and field traditional
weapons systems, research spending
represented 20 percent of total Pentagon
budgets.
So the Pentagon spends 20% of the budget on building more tanks, ships, and planes, and then putting some high tech gadgets on them and the toys they already have. I love laser guided stuff with cameras! It makes for such awesome briefings to the press corp.
That is fine of course, it keeps the contractors happy, the Brass happy, and the troops happy, but we aren't spending enough on the really really high tech stuff, dang it! More money for R&D so we can make the really really cool stuff. Like Xwing fighters, laser blasters, hover tanks,...you know all the stuff in the movies!
Any serious effort at transformation must occur within the larger framework of
U.S. national security strategy, military missions and defense budgets. The United States cannot simply declare a “strategic pause” while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts.

Now as far as this high tech transformation goes, we can't cut back funding on other areas, we can't reduce our missions, we can't reduce our presence around the world, because American's love to see their young men and women die for other peoples freedoms.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.

Now this whole high tech revolution that has been going on since the 80's is going to take a really long time. Why is it going to take a really long time? Budget constraints based upon Congress and current National Security issues.
So a surprise attack by a foreign country on American soil near water that kills upwards of 3000+ people is going to speed up this transformation. How do you speed up the transformation? Throw more money at the transformation. This of course requires an increase in defense budgets by Congress. And who wouldn't want to throw more money to the Defense Department after a surprise attack? Because God knows the money they had already failed its purpose, so send more money to speed up the transformation!

9/11 was even better than Pearl Harbor in this instance, because it started a war on a concept not a country, and as we all know, you can't defeat a concept! See War on Drugs, War on Poverty, etc, etc.
Perpetual war, gentlemen, with an enemy that can't be defeated.
Defense contractors, stockholders, the Pentagon and the military-industrial complex in general just love perpetual war. Not so good for public education, health care, infrastructure, you know all the things that could be improved if we weren't dumping billions into a war on a concept. I like Ike and he was right! Along the way we can throw in a couple of conventional wars along the way to get rid of some old equipment, prove we need new equipment, pick some oil, build some strategic bases, etc.

In general, to maintain American military preeminence that is consistent with the requirements of a strategy of American global leadership, tomorrow’s U.S. armed forces must meet three new missions.

So in order for the U.S. military to be the best in the world and maintain the President and CEO of the NWO,they have to complete the following missions:
1. Global Missile Defense. Check. More money headed that way.
2. Control of space and cyberspace. Check. More money headed that way.
3. Pursuing a two-stage strategy for of transforming conventional forces.
Check. More money headed that way to update with new gadgets, and R&D to make sure the tax payers are safe from a concept.

The plan of transformation doesn't rely on the "Pearl Harbor". The plan's funding and speed rely on the "Pearl Harbor". And whatever your thoughts on that 9/11 issue, the plan's funding and speed benefited from 9/11.

If the funding benefits, then military contractors, i.e. corporations benefited and social programs suffer. Eisenhower was indeed correct.


From Foreign Policy in Focus:

Key Points
* In the wake of September 11, President Bush requested the largest increase in defense spending in two decades.
* The potential for an open-ended war poses great opportunities for weapons makers and great challenges for those who seek to curb wasteful military spending.
* Major defense contractors are figuring out new ways to tap into the homeland defense market.

Remind me again who benefited from 9/11?
 
what does the time of finding the passports have anything to do with anything?
I am guessing the passports survived by luck, just like the guy who hid under his desk as flight 175 plowed by him through the building survived.
TAM:)

I would give that an RMackey plausibility factor of -756. :newlol
I'm not sure if Rmackey figured in "luck" into his equation, but there was a lot of luck taking place that day. I guess I didn't realize how many four leaf clovers Afghanistan had.;)
 
Well lets look at PNAC and this Pearl Harbor business.

[...]

So a surprise attack by a foreign country on American soil near water that kills upwards of 3000+ people is going to speed up this transformation. How do you speed up the transformation? Throw more money at the transformation. This of course requires an increase in defense budgets by Congress. And who wouldn't want to throw more money to the Defense Department after a surprise attack? Because God knows the money they had already failed its purpose, so send more money to speed up the transformation!

9/11 was even better than Pearl Harbor in this instance, because it started a war on a concept not a country, and as we all know, you can't defeat a concept! See War on Drugs, War on Poverty, etc, etc.
Perpetual war, gentlemen, with an enemy that can't be defeated.
Except that a very significant part of the US military is now engaged in several very expensive missions that are not going to end any time soon. Any numbers on how much the R&D budget has gone up?
 
This is the key part. Read that section of the document, the very section you've dissected over an over again, and you'll see that they don't want a catastrophic event. Rapid change is bad change, according to the authors. A "new Pearl Harbour" would be catastrophic to the Project for a New American Century. It makes no sense that they'd deliberately orchestrate one, nor be "complict", in your words, to one.

Still, I don't care, because even if 911 was politically expedient, it doesn't mean the government of the USA made it happen. But, let's agree to disagree on that. Say that they had a meeting, whereupon it was decided to expediate the Project by creating a catastrophic event. TELL US WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.
PNAC's point was that more R & D is required. A "Pearl Harbor" event essentially halts R & D in the new technology department--all the budget goes to supporting the current effort, and on "minor" improvements in existing systems--better utilization of the existing weapons systems, not new and improved.
When dealing with the Missouri river overflowing it's banks into your farm acrage is not the time you will be investing in new and improved planting impliments--you need pumps and bulldozers!
 
PNAC's point was that more R & D is required. A "Pearl Harbor" event essentially halts R & D in the new technology department--all the budget goes to supporting the current effort, and on "minor" improvements in existing systems--better utilization of the existing weapons systems, not new and improved.
When dealing with the Missouri river overflowing it's banks into your farm acrage is not the time you will be investing in new and improved planting impliments--you need pumps and bulldozers!

I think that, historically, the only time military R & D was performed with any urgency was when the enemy had as good, or possibly better, technology than the US did. This was true during WWII and the Cold War, and it resulted in a frenzy of new development.

Today, there just isn't any competition. We're already years ahead of our enemies, why would we need to be decades ahead?

I think the "New Pearl Harbor" that PNAC spoke of would really have to be more of a high-tech attack, something that revealed an unexpected technological edge for an enemy, before R & D spending would benefit.
 
* In the wake of September 11, President Bush requested the largest increase in defense spending in two decades.


The problem is all of that extra money went into combat operations and increasing troop strength.

It didn't go into developing new technologies. In fact, a number of projects that were being developed for future battlefields have been scrapped, suspended, or significantly slowed down because the money is needed for Iraq and Afghanistan. These include the Land Warrior project and integration with the Future Force system (the Stryker was meant to be a component of the overall project), replacements for the M-16 rifle, and the OICW.

-Gumboot
 
To preserve American military
preeminence in the coming decades, the
Department of Defense must move more
aggressively to experiment with new
technologies and operational concepts, and
seek to exploit the emerging revolution in
military affairs.

This same quote could have been made after the civil war.

Apparently this transformation is taking a long time as it was begun in the 80's and we showed it off in the Gulf War. You know, stealth technology and the money behind that.

Advancement in military technology has been going on as long as there has been armys. How does this mean that it had to happen right away.
 

Back
Top Bottom